Murder or self defence -

There's a lot of play right now in the UK media because a couple of thugs were threatening a man of 78 in his kitchen and he got the screwdriver off one of them and stabbed him with it. Both guys fled, and the stabbed one collapsed and died in the street.

The 78 year old was arrested, and kept in jail overnight. He was threatened with being charged with murder, but the community rose in an uproar, even the touchy-feely media took his side, a fund was instantly started to help him with his legal fees, and he is home again.

The thug's family are saying loudly that he didn't deserve to die (he has a history of breaking and entering, intimidation, robbery, etc, and has done jail time) and floral tributes are now being left for him outside the OAP's home.

So far as I am concerned, if you can't take the heat, don't go into the kitchen. Live by violence, die by violence. If you ask for trouble, expect trouble, even from a nice soft target like an OAP who doesn't know the rules and didn't back down. Yes, yes, terribly unfair that he fought back, how DARE he. But you started it!!

It seems so far as the authorities are concerned, if you are being threatened by thugs 40 years younger than yourself waving a rudimentary weapon in your face, you should meekly play along, hope not to become a statistic, and let them have whatever they want. The authorities will sort justice out later ...


very mad

I may vanish without warning, I'm supposed to be teaching but my 1.30 class cancelled. I have to be on standby in case new pupils are suddenly slotted in but until then coffee smoking
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Comments (32)

I heard about that on the news alright.
We had a similar case about 10 years ago, which eventually brought about a change in law.
Now homeowners are allowed to use "reasonable force" to defend themselves, their families and their property.
If a person is armed coming into your home, it can be reasonably expected that they would use the weapon.

If you use that weapon instead on them, to protect yourself, I think that is reasonable.
Hi Biff, here we have the right to defend our family in our home.

To be honest, I would really hate to be put in that situation.
IMO, if someone breaks into your house & attacks you there should be a telephone number you can use to have the police come round & remove the body, a free cleaning service to remove any blood or body parts would be nice touch professor
I’ll kick where it hurts the most!!

boxing boxing boxing
I'd also get done for public urination, on the flowers, every time I felt the slightest urge.
Z, the way things are going in the UK, I feel your expectations might find themselves at slight odds with the authorities rolling on the floor laughing

But yeah, I bet the authorities left him and his wife to clean up. Sheesh. mumbling
Mimi and Pat, not sure you're taking this discussion seriously scold

rolling on the floor laughing
switching computers and may pause in between for coffee and something to eat because right now it is 15h45 and breakfast is definitely overdue and I could eat my own foot.
BA, the type who thought they'd picked someone who would quiver and shake and beg them not to hurt him. In the classic words of Dad's Army, they don't like it up 'em.

Bullies. Love 'em.

Grouchy, I admire him too. But I think he is going to be made to regret it. blues
will we ever forget this scene - so calm -

Back again, I shudder everytime I think of that incident, or when I see a chefs knife,doh It could have turned out so different. But with the times changing, I have learnt to be very cautious on my travels around town, and the people I m near, try to make it a learning experience.
Ek, maybe civilised duels at dawn could be re-introduced.

The winner takes all.
I'm glad he won't be facing charges.

If someone is up to no good, it's their own fault if someone uses reasonable force against them. wine
KNenagh thumbs up Agree totally.
1to1, I think you should take strength from the incident, not many of us get the chance to KNOW how we'd react when the chips are down!
Itchy, we're on the same page with this one, that the police could even say they were considering murder charges made me want to pop with indignation! Oh well. We live in a strange world.
I did hope that the Irish verdict would deter people from breaking into houses when someone is inside GG.

If someone is up to no good it probably won't stop them. I was surprised how many people in Ireland have an alarm compared to Germany (the only people I know having an alarm in Germany are the ones with a villa whereas in Ireland they have them across the board.) conversing
On these cases it's best to see all the evidence before weighing in with an opinion on partial information.
I agree with your feelings IF the truth is as you presented it. However, since neither of us were there in
that kitchen at the time, lets await all the details to come out before making judgements,
Molly, I'm SHOCKED.



In this cornah, we have Battling Billy, who is competing to take everything Old Joe has ever managed to accumulate for his old age!

In this cornah, we have Old Joe, who despite his 40 year handicap has the motivation of fighting for everything he owns, let's give him a cheer, folks!

When does the next spaceship leave the planet? And where can I buy tickets?
Biff, I've not read many comments here but will the pensioner get time?
is he the same man that had a sick poorly wife upstairs in bed, I believe he acted afraid of how they may of frightened or hurt her... The man is a hero thumbs up
GG, I hate it when victims are battered and terrorised.

I also feel when one is a career criminal with a history of doing this stuff, it's because he wants to. Easy pickings. It's no longer the needy but the greedy.

Grrr
KN, things go in fashions, once one house gets an alarm it only takes one incident elsewhere and everyone gets alarms. I was in Bremen not that long ago (and got my passport stolen) and parts of it were lovely and parts of it had bars and "armed response" signs up so maybe these things also go in areas?

From what I've read (which isn't a huge amount, because the media is slipping off facts and into emotions) this happened in a particular area which is getting a lot worse.
There's now some cctv footage in Express, he was filmed casing another house in the area and the guy recognized his picture.

Itchy, no charges will be pressed. yay

I did see a comment he was terrified for his wife so that could be the same story. However now the media are spinning it so there will be less truth in every new update sigh
Good stuff .. I'm delighted to hear that Biff applause
This definition was given by the judge on a murder trial I happened to be a juror on


Murder : a premeditated act causing death

Manslaughter : causing death unintentionally in the spur of the moment or by an unintentional act resulting in a fatality
Hi, Crest! and yes, that was what made it a ridiculous threat, to charge a man with murder when the weapon used was brought by the victim. Since charges are being dropped, I imagine a verdict of accidental death will be brought in? although there was always a chance of a manslaughter charge. I suppose still is.

What was the outcome of the trial, can you say? I've never been called for jury duty (although as a writer of whodunits I'm probably one of the few who would be quite pleased to be called) and although a murder trial must be the most intense form, apparently they go on for weeks or even months wow completely disrupting work commitments and being a pardon-the-pun bit of a trial.
The outcome was murder
The accused got into a fight Then went home got a knife hid it in his sleeve ...

Went back called the guy out stabbed him in the back
Then went home washed the knife and his clothes and went to bed

Clear case of a premeditated act
Reading this makes me very glad our country still has Castle Laws which allow home owners to protect themselves in a home invasion, by any means necessary. We mostly still have sensible juries too.
It is of interest to note the deceased in this case was not a child, but a 38-year old man and his accomplice was 28 years old. And the deceased was also a former traveller. I'm glad the authorities came to their senses in this case. I worry about you guys over there sometimes.
Me too.thumbs up
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