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Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in. ( Archived) (37)

Jun 27, 2009 1:06 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
CBO Grossly Underestimates Costs of Cap and Trade Posted June 22nd, 2009 at 4.25pm in Energy and Environment.
Last week, the Congressional Budget Office released their analysis of the Waxman-Markey climate change bill that had proponents of the bill claiming we could save the planet for just $175 per household. That was the figure CBO estimated cap and trade would cost households in 2020, which “includes the cost of restructuring the production and use of energy and of payments made to foreign entities under the program, but it does not include the economic benefits and other benefits of the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions and the associated slowing of climate change.”

The trouble with the analysis is that costs are grossly underestimated. The trouble with legislation is that it will have virtually no impact on climate.

Overall, there are a number of basic problems with CBO’s analysis:

• Their allowance cost numbers don’t add up. They say the allowance price will be $28. Since there are 5.056 billion tons of CO2 equivalent in the cap that year, that implies a $141 billion gross cost. They list 91.4 (see table one). In the CBO’s June 5 analysis of Waxman-Markey, they projected allowance revenues of $119.7 billion, 129.7 billion, $136 billion, $145.6 billion, and $152.9 billion for the years 2015 to 2019. It’s hard to believe that the next number in that series would be $91.4 billion.


So the article starts...and it's a bit lengthy, but you get the idea. I've heard the cost per family could be up to $3000 per year.


Thrilled with the cost of saving the planet?
dunno
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Jun 27, 2009 1:36 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
I know, I know, it's a boring thread.

It won't be exciting until you get your utility bill or buy something produced from carbon. yay
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Jun 27, 2009 2:45 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
ttom500
ttom500ttom500St. Cloud, Florida USA39 Threads 7 Polls 16,471 Posts
I thought cap and trade meant....a college graduate was going get a
job at a Wall Street trading firm???:-) I got it wrong???:-)

Very few gov't or consultant cost projections are close to the actual (real) figures of a program. Many studies show this. Just no way to estimate all the various costs and cost to impliment programs.

Speaking more generally in this area....Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck have by talking about how this is the time of the 'global problem' and the 'global solution'.

How many countries can effectively operate outside of their country (where laws, customs, languages, and gov't structure is often vastly different)? When one begins to put cost estimating into programs outside of the country...cost estimates are about are pretty hard to hit.
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Jun 27, 2009 2:53 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
dazzling_dave
dazzling_davedazzling_daveWaynesboro, Virginia USA7 Threads 2,686 Posts
Ya'll worry too much. The Weenies in Washington are going to take care of our every need.
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Jun 27, 2009 3:08 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
That sounds more like "CRAP and TRADE" the OwlGore Way!
Moreover since that whole Climate Change Stuff is a Huge Swindle!doh
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Jun 27, 2009 4:27 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
chrisart57: ...and should we mention NO-Bama is a marxist who wants to weaken our country while our enemies expand their influence around the globe.



Spoken by the Messiah:


1:04 seconds into the video:


Change you can believe in. Cuz it won't be left in your pocket. grin
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Jun 28, 2009 9:53 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
Indyfella: Spoken by the Messiah:1:04 seconds into the video: you can believe in. Cuz it won't be left in your pocket.




what the hell, "bump" grin
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Jun 28, 2009 11:05 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
I have no problem with the $3,000.00 share in my household to save the planet.

I will let the Dud Dude pay it.professor
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Jun 28, 2009 11:10 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
BebeII
BebeIIBebeIIConcordville, Pennsylvania USA28 Threads 3,267 Posts
HJFinAZ: I have no problem with the $3,000.00 share in my household to save the planet.

I will let the Dud Dude pay it.
laugh Yes, Let's all of us send our bills to Dud for payment!
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Jun 28, 2009 11:14 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
BebeII: Yes, Let's all of us send our bills to Dud for payment!


Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......devil


OH yeah....grin
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Jun 28, 2009 11:15 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
BebeII: Yes, Let's all of us send our bills to Dud for payment!


Hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......devil


OH yeah....grin
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Jun 28, 2009 11:46 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Grandepensees
GrandepenseesGrandepenseesVerviers, Liege Belgium64 Threads 1 Polls 6,076 Posts
Indyfella: CBO Grossly Underestimates Costs of Cap and Trade Posted June 22nd I've heard the cost per family could be up to $3000 per year. Thrilled with the cost of saving the planet?


Now what kind of fear-mongering liberal-hating Limbaugh-loving paper did you get a hold of again there Indy?

You should know that from the very start of the war in Iraq this country was already bankrupt. We are still and will continue paying for that blunder and quagmire for at least 30 years and the article talks about money we'll be spending on CO2 emission? What money?
We're broke man!
We've been and are spending money we already don't have!
If the Iraq war was worth bankrupting this country, I say so are Carbon emission Controls AND Health Care Reform!

...while we're spending, hell.
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Jun 28, 2009 11:52 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Grandepensees: Now what kind of fear-mongering liberal-hating Limbaugh-loving paper did you get a hold of again there Indy?

You should know that from the very start of the war in Iraq this country was already bankrupt. We are still and will continue paying for that blunder and quagmire for at least 30 years and the article talks about money we'll be spending on CO2 emission? What money?
We're broke man!
We've been and are spending money we already don't have!
If the Iraq war was worth bankrupting this country, I say so are Carbon emission Controls AND Health Care Reform!

...while we're spending, hell.


I feel since you are going to be part of the movement, I can say this to you:

Why do you even bother responding? wave
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Jun 28, 2009 11:58 PM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Grandepensees
GrandepenseesGrandepenseesVerviers, Liege Belgium64 Threads 1 Polls 6,076 Posts
azucarmorena: I feel since you are going to be part of the movement, I can say this to you:

Why do you even bother responding?


It keeps my inner balance in checklaugh I refuse to think that certain people are beyond all hope. Mankind CAN be saved and we must each do our part to wake our neighbor to certain points of view previously stifled by a tyrannical partyrolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 29, 2009 12:06 AM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Grandepensees: It keeps my inner balance in check I refuse to think that certain people are beyond all hope. Mankind CAN be saved and we must each do our part to wake our neighbor to certain points of view previously stifled by a tyrannical party


They are beyond hope though...Some people are destined to be hopeless..and hey we need that balance. I can't have everyone all hopey. That would be so boring! I need those beyond hope people to keep wallowing in their hopelessness. They are kinda like a moat.

rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 29, 2009 1:12 AM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Grandepensees
GrandepenseesGrandepenseesVerviers, Liege Belgium64 Threads 1 Polls 6,076 Posts
azucarmorena: They are beyond hope though...Some people are destined to be hopeless..and hey we need that balance. I can't have everyone all hopey. That would be so boring! I need those beyond hope people to keep wallowing in their hopelessness. They are kinda like a moat.


I fear you are right!
We do need dopey people around so we can have a frame of references on how not dopey to be!
Good...Very good.thumbs up
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Jun 29, 2009 6:07 AM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to believe that mankind can control the planet temperature. rolling on the floor laughing
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Jun 29, 2009 6:19 AM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Indyfella
IndyfellaIndyfellaindianapolis, Indiana USA230 Threads 9 Polls 27,698 Posts
If I recall correctly, the temp of the planet has raised 3/4 of 1 degree in 100 years and that can't be pinned on co2 emissions.
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Jun 29, 2009 6:20 AM CST Cap & Trade..... More change you can believe in.
Thalassa
ThalassaThalassaRome, Lazio Italy131 Threads 3,572 Posts
Indyfella: If I recall correctly, the temp of the planet has raised 3/4 of 1 degree in 100 years and that can't be pinned on co2 emissions.


No wonder I'm so hot lately! And here I was thinking it was menopause! rolling on the floor laughing
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