Amada Knox.........guilty or innocent? (74)
Although I feel for the family of the murdered girl and the Knox family, this is a non-issue in the relationship between the US and Italy.
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Just a guess on my part. Since the Senator and REP from the Knox home states districts have already had meetings with Sect of State Clinton. On this issue the day following the verdict. They and her family will be pressing the Obama administration to intervene. Will it?
I don't know.
If it decides to....it is no longer a non-issue.
I don't know.
If it decides to....it is no longer a non-issue.
Aramis734: Although I feel for the family of the murdered girl and the Knox family, this is a non-issue in the relationship between the US and Italy.
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Thank you.
Since you are Italian and live in Italy, you would probably know: are the irregularities the OP mentioned really irregularities, or are they the norm in Italy?
Do lawyers talk to the media about cases?
Are the accused allowed a lawyer during questioning--or are they questioned without a lawyer present?
As I said in my post, what we Americans see as odd or irregular may be the norm, and I am curious to know.
Since you are Italian and live in Italy, you would probably know: are the irregularities the OP mentioned really irregularities, or are they the norm in Italy?
Do lawyers talk to the media about cases?
Are the accused allowed a lawyer during questioning--or are they questioned without a lawyer present?
As I said in my post, what we Americans see as odd or irregular may be the norm, and I am curious to know.
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ttom500: This could be come a real issue between the US and Italy.
Experts here are poking holes in the Italy case to convict her of the Murder of her British roommate.
Consider that....the only DNA, Hairs and of foreisic evidence belong to Rudi Gulliey at the crime scene.
Consider that....she was questioned by the Italian police for 12
straight hours without an attorney.
Consider that....there is a computer record of her being at her boy friends when the murder occurred.
Consider that.....the Italy jury was not kept isolotated from the media during the trial. That the Italian prosecutor made a very emotional case to the media that the jury saw outside the courtroom.
26 years is a long prison sentence for a 20 year old. Agreed if she is quilty...one that is deserved. A murder was done here. But if she did not do it....is a major injustice.
There is the appeal process that will take months. That surely is being considered by the Knox family.
The American media....is calling the reason of her conviction.... 'anti Americanism' in Europe.
Let us keep CS sensiblities please. Just a good open discussion by all.
One last point. I listened to the British family that lost their daughter and sibling on our media. I thought they were a class act and showed great composure to the media and the situation after the verdict was given. My condolences to them.
Experts here are poking holes in the Italy case to convict her of the Murder of her British roommate.
Consider that....the only DNA, Hairs and of foreisic evidence belong to Rudi Gulliey at the crime scene.
Consider that....she was questioned by the Italian police for 12
straight hours without an attorney.
Consider that....there is a computer record of her being at her boy friends when the murder occurred.
Consider that.....the Italy jury was not kept isolotated from the media during the trial. That the Italian prosecutor made a very emotional case to the media that the jury saw outside the courtroom.
26 years is a long prison sentence for a 20 year old. Agreed if she is quilty...one that is deserved. A murder was done here. But if she did not do it....is a major injustice.
There is the appeal process that will take months. That surely is being considered by the Knox family.
The American media....is calling the reason of her conviction.... 'anti Americanism' in Europe.
Let us keep CS sensiblities please. Just a good open discussion by all.
One last point. I listened to the British family that lost their daughter and sibling on our media. I thought they were a class act and showed great composure to the media and the situation after the verdict was given. My condolences to them.
You really are Anti the world arn't you. Do you really think that the rest of the world is backward and silly compared to America. Italy is a wonderfull country, with a really well educated population, the arts and architecture there are second to none!
What makes you think that their police force, Judicial system or anything about their law system is second class. It's the same old BS we hear from the US and UK as soon as a citizan is found guilty of a crime or suspected of a crime in another country. She got a fair trial and was found guilty. Do you ever read anything but pro American Propaganda? Really do you?
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Keeneland: You really are Anti the world arn't you. Do you really think that the rest of the world is backward and silly compared to America. Italy is a wonderfull country, with a really well educated population, the arts and architecture there are second to none!
What makes you think that their police force, Judicial system or anything about their law system is second class. It's the same old BS we hear from the US and UK as soon as a citizan is found guilty of a crime or suspected of a crime in another country. She got a fair trial and was found guilty. Do you ever read anything but pro American Propaganda? Really do you?
What makes you think that their police force, Judicial system or anything about their law system is second class. It's the same old BS we hear from the US and UK as soon as a citizan is found guilty of a crime or suspected of a crime in another country. She got a fair trial and was found guilty. Do you ever read anything but pro American Propaganda? Really do you?
Try tell all that to an Italian and they will laugh in your face and just mention two names, the pope and Berlusconi
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Keeneland: You really are Anti the world arn't you. Do you really think that the rest of the world is backward and silly compared to America. Italy is a wonderfull country, with a really well educated population, the arts and architecture there are second to none!
What makes you think that their police force, Judicial system or anything about their law system is second class. It's the same old BS we hear from the US and UK as soon as a citizan is found guilty of a crime or suspected of a crime in another country. She got a fair trial and was found guilty. Do you ever read anything but pro American Propaganda? Really do you?
What makes you think that their police force, Judicial system or anything about their law system is second class. It's the same old BS we hear from the US and UK as soon as a citizan is found guilty of a crime or suspected of a crime in another country. She got a fair trial and was found guilty. Do you ever read anything but pro American Propaganda? Really do you?
Besides Italian Police are about as good as the Portuguese, and look at the atrocious mess they made over the loss of poor Maddie
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ttom500: This could be come a real issue between the US and Italy.
Experts here are poking holes in the Italy case to convict her of the Murder of her British roommate.
Consider that....the only DNA, Hairs and of foreisic evidence belong to Rudi Gulliey at the crime scene.
Consider that....she was questioned by the Italian police for 12
straight hours without an attorney.
Consider that....there is a computer record of her being at her boy friends when the murder occurred.
Consider that.....the Italy jury was not kept isolotated from the media during the trial. That the Italian prosecutor made a very emotional case to the media that the jury saw outside the courtroom.
26 years is a long prison sentence for a 20 year old. Agreed if she is quilty...one that is deserved. A murder was done here. But if she did not do it....is a major injustice.
There is the appeal process that will take months. That surely is being considered by the Knox family.
The American media....is calling the reason of her conviction.... 'anti Americanism' in Europe.
Let us keep CS sensiblities please. Just a good open discussion by all.
One last point. I listened to the British family that lost their daughter and sibling on our media. I thought they were a class act and showed great composure to the media and the situation after the verdict was given. My condolences to them.
Experts here are poking holes in the Italy case to convict her of the Murder of her British roommate.
Consider that....the only DNA, Hairs and of foreisic evidence belong to Rudi Gulliey at the crime scene.
Consider that....she was questioned by the Italian police for 12
straight hours without an attorney.
Consider that....there is a computer record of her being at her boy friends when the murder occurred.
Consider that.....the Italy jury was not kept isolotated from the media during the trial. That the Italian prosecutor made a very emotional case to the media that the jury saw outside the courtroom.
26 years is a long prison sentence for a 20 year old. Agreed if she is quilty...one that is deserved. A murder was done here. But if she did not do it....is a major injustice.
There is the appeal process that will take months. That surely is being considered by the Knox family.
The American media....is calling the reason of her conviction.... 'anti Americanism' in Europe.
Let us keep CS sensiblities please. Just a good open discussion by all.
One last point. I listened to the British family that lost their daughter and sibling on our media. I thought they were a class act and showed great composure to the media and the situation after the verdict was given. My condolences to them.
Just on the two pints marked above....Consider if found quilty in some states in the US she would have been sentenced to death!
Consider they did not water board her and if that was a muslim man being "interviewed" by the CIA he would have got worse treatment and you would be screaming for his head!
Jeez man give up all this Anti everything that is not American crap will you!
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rizlared: Try tell all that to an Italian and they will laugh in your face and just mention two names, the pope and Berlusconi
The Pope and Berlusconi have noting to do with that trial. Silly statement. I could say George Bush probably had an IQ of 5 but what does that have to do with the US Judical system?
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rizlared: Besides Italian Police are about as good as the Portuguese, and look at the atrocious mess they made over the loss of poor Maddie
You are not British by any chance?
How do you know they made a mess of it. The Portugese police think the Mc Canns are involved and a lot points to that but because they are British the British people slate the Portugese Police and Judicial system. Coming from a country with a record of so many miscarriges of justice i think this lack of faith in other countries legal system is laughable.------ This thread is Archived ------
Keeneland: The Pope and Berlusconi have noting to do with that trial. Silly statement. I could say George Bush probably had an IQ of 5 but what does that have to do with the US Judical system?
Your missing the point, I was saying that as the Prime Minister is corrupt (Proven) and same goes for most of his politicians, then the judges etc are also open to corruption and will dictate a sentence rather than follow the actual truth.
I in no way inferred Italian politics had anything to do with America, unless of course you want to discuss the friendship between Silvio B and Libia
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I'm curious how many people who are discussing this were at the trial? How many of us are basing our opinions on what the media has said? Because if you believe the media I have a bridge for sale!
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rizlared: Your missing the point, I was saying that as the Prime Minister is corrupt (Proven) and same goes for most of his politicians, then the judges etc are also open to corruption and will dictate a sentence rather than follow the actual truth.
I in no way inferred Italian politics had anything to do with America, unless of course you want to discuss the friendship between Silvio B and Libia
I in no way inferred Italian politics had anything to do with America, unless of course you want to discuss the friendship between Silvio B and Libia
So why would it be in the interest of Italy or anyone in Italy to falsly convict these people. Just cause she is American there is all this crap. Were the Judge, Jury and Police all corrupt on this case?????
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Iuchi_Zien: I'm curious how many people who are discussing this were at the trial? How many of us are basing our opinions on what the media has said? Because if you believe the media I have a bridge for sale!
I was not at the trial but it really gets my goat up that people in the UK and the US are so quick to slag off other countries Judicial systems and start picking holes.
Why the hell would they want to falsly convict this American girl? What does Italy get from this. Has anyone considered that she is guilty and the Italian Police done a good Job, the Judge done a good Job and the Jury made the correct decision????
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Keeneland: You are not British by any chance? How do you know they made a mess of it. The Portugese police think the Mc Canns are involved and a lot points to that but because they are British the British people slate the Portugese Police and Judicial system. Coming from a country with a record of so many miscarriges of justice i think this lack of faith in other countries legal system is laughable.
Yes I am British :UK: but followed the MCcanns case very closely,there is no doubt whatsoever that the local police failed to follow their own correct procedure regarding this tragic case, read the reports by Scotland Yard, they have castigated the Portuguese police over the handling of this case, without stating who was guilty, but the fact that they could not solve the case correctly due to poor police work.
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Keeneland: So why would it be in the interest of Italy or anyone in Italy to falsly convict these people. Just cause she is American there is all this crap. Were the Judge, Jury and Police all corrupt on this case?????
It is highly probable that the senior members were indeed influenced to make certain decisions yes, as for supporting an American, not the case for me, but I have witnessed the way policing is carried out in Italy and I believe in true justice, something I genuinely think she has not received.
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rizlared: Yes I am British :UK: but followed the MCcanns case very closely,there is no doubt whatsoever that the local police failed to follow their own correct procedure regarding this tragic case, read the reports by Scotland Yard, they have castigated the Portuguese police over the handling of this case, without stating who was guilty, but the fact that they could not solve the case correctly due to poor police work.
And again you prove my point!!!!!!!What makes Scotland Yard in a position to castigate any police force????? Is this the Scotland Yard that put away the Birmingham Six? Guilford Four to name 2 from a countless list? You have proved my point sir! Again why putss Scotland Yard in a position to comment on any foreign police force?
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Keeneland: I was not at the trial but it really gets my goat up that people in the UK and the US are so quick to slag off other countries Judicial systems and start picking holes.
Why the hell would they want to falsly convict this American girl? What does Italy get from this. Has anyone considered that she is guilty and the Italian Police done a good Job, the Judge done a good Job and the Jury made the correct decision????
Why the hell would they want to falsly convict this American girl? What does Italy get from this. Has anyone considered that she is guilty and the Italian Police done a good Job, the Judge done a good Job and the Jury made the correct decision????
I hope your last statement is true, I really do, but where there is doubt, I do not think we can say that yet.
To much inconsistency, which will have the lawyers "appealling" against the conviction for years.
But, you are right..... at some point someone has to trust the authorities have been thorough in their process, but even in the US such doubt has kept many a person on death row for years.
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One of the arguements being made here in the US. Is that the Italian prosecutor is up for reelection or reappointment. That he saw the case as a way to win his office again. Much like the Duke Lacros Players case in the US. So he makes a public case..in the media. Which sadly was not kept from the jurors.
Most traveling Americans do know that they are under the host countries laws and its civil court system. While Italy is not Iran,
prosecutor misconduct can occur anyplace. Americans have seen that in the Aruba Island Murder case of Natalee Holloway.
Personally none here know if the girl is innocent or guilty. Likely none here have followed the case close enough to know all the details. I know that I don't.
But there is something unsavory in trying a murder case, in the media by the state. The state has much advantage coming into court in the first place...from evidence, witness statements, police officers statements... then to add in media exposure and local opinion to the case? That can make a unfair forum? Yes?
Take it to a coming American case for moment. The SMK New York City
trial. Think that the world opinion of the US is enhanced if the FED prosecutors make their case in the world media with daily press conferences, press releases, displays of 9/11 photos and video, and evidence to SMK guilt?
I think that the world would see it the same way...these are some
FED prosecutors making a name....for some future public office.
But don't get me wrong....I suspect that is exactly what is going to happen in the SMK case by both the Defense and State. The question will be if the US judge places a media gag order on it.
Which bring us back to the Italian judges......why did they (I think that it is three that sit in Italian courts)...not place a media gag order on it?
Most traveling Americans do know that they are under the host countries laws and its civil court system. While Italy is not Iran,
prosecutor misconduct can occur anyplace. Americans have seen that in the Aruba Island Murder case of Natalee Holloway.
Personally none here know if the girl is innocent or guilty. Likely none here have followed the case close enough to know all the details. I know that I don't.
But there is something unsavory in trying a murder case, in the media by the state. The state has much advantage coming into court in the first place...from evidence, witness statements, police officers statements... then to add in media exposure and local opinion to the case? That can make a unfair forum? Yes?
Take it to a coming American case for moment. The SMK New York City
trial. Think that the world opinion of the US is enhanced if the FED prosecutors make their case in the world media with daily press conferences, press releases, displays of 9/11 photos and video, and evidence to SMK guilt?
I think that the world would see it the same way...these are some
FED prosecutors making a name....for some future public office.
But don't get me wrong....I suspect that is exactly what is going to happen in the SMK case by both the Defense and State. The question will be if the US judge places a media gag order on it.
Which bring us back to the Italian judges......why did they (I think that it is three that sit in Italian courts)...not place a media gag order on it?
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Keeneland: I was not at the trial but it really gets my goat up that people in the UK and the US are so quick to slag off other countries Judicial systems and start picking holes.
Why the hell would they want to falsly convict this American girl? What does Italy get from this. Has anyone considered that she is guilty and the Italian Police done a good Job, the Judge done a good Job and the Jury made the correct decision????
Why the hell would they want to falsly convict this American girl? What does Italy get from this. Has anyone considered that she is guilty and the Italian Police done a good Job, the Judge done a good Job and the Jury made the correct decision????
I completely agree, I wasn't there I haven't seen the evidence so what right do I/we have to condemn the judges for their decision? and the last time I checked the rule was 'Innocent until proven guilty' so why are people attacking the Judges who heard the case?
Oh, and I'm from the UK and I DON'T slag off other countries justice system.
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Experts here are poking holes in the Italy case to convict her of the Murder of her British roommate.
Consider that....the only DNA, Hairs and of foreisic evidence belong to Rudi Gulliey at the crime scene.
Consider that....she was questioned by the Italian police for 12
straight hours without an attorney.
Consider that....there is a computer record of her being at her boy friends when the murder occurred.
Consider that.....the Italy jury was not kept isolotated from the media during the trial. That the Italian prosecutor made a very emotional case to the media that the jury saw outside the courtroom.
26 years is a long prison sentence for a 20 year old. Agreed if she is quilty...one that is deserved. A murder was done here. But if she did not do it....is a major injustice.
There is the appeal process that will take months. That surely is being considered by the Knox family.
The American media....is calling the reason of her conviction.... 'anti Americanism' in Europe.
Let us keep CS sensiblities please. Just a good open discussion by all.
One last point. I listened to the British family that lost their daughter and sibling on our media. I thought they were a class act and showed great composure to the media and the situation after the verdict was given. My condolences to them.