UPDATE (57)
ooby_dooby: The only way this low life will survive in prison is to spend the rest of his life in isolation from other prisoners.
You got that right! Hopefully they kill him the first day and the state wont waste assets on this scumbag.
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jac379: Closure can be found in many ways.
I have had a crime commited against me and working out some of the reasons of how and why is exactly what I have done.
Sure I've been through the angry phase. I had a rage in me as deep as the oceans. That was part of the grieving process and for my own personal survival only.
The behavioural/psychological analysis since then has had two functions. Its been both healing and more importantly understanding is preventitive. If I recognise the psychological and behavioural environment in which the crime took place I can better protect myself, my child and my grandchild. I can break out of a negative cycle, I can show others its possible to break out of a negative cycle, I can stop being a part of negative cycles that lead to hate and hate crimes.
I have had a crime commited against me and working out some of the reasons of how and why is exactly what I have done.
Sure I've been through the angry phase. I had a rage in me as deep as the oceans. That was part of the grieving process and for my own personal survival only.
The behavioural/psychological analysis since then has had two functions. Its been both healing and more importantly understanding is preventitive. If I recognise the psychological and behavioural environment in which the crime took place I can better protect myself, my child and my grandchild. I can break out of a negative cycle, I can show others its possible to break out of a negative cycle, I can stop being a part of negative cycles that lead to hate and hate crimes.
So you analyzed why the crime took place against you. When you were satisfied with the reasoning of why it took place it enabled you to move on, to forgive, to not put yourself or your family in that environment again. I understand that. I also had a crime against me but it's not important to get into it but I will say, even though I know why it happened, it didn't lessen the pain of knowing it happened and especially who did it.
The mother of this child is not from high society or a highly educated person. Regardless, she has a plethora of family and friends that will help her cope BUT she will never get over the loss of her child. When a child dies from an illness, parents rarely get over it but they do move on in their lives. This child was murdered.....I was going to say in a horrific way....but it doesn't matter how the murder happened....it just matters that it happened. I don't see how this mother will be able to take the course that you took to move on in her life. She's not highly educated or capable of trying to understand what happened. All she knows is the pain.
The negative cycle you broke out of is called forgiveness. Many people are able to forgive their transgressor. I give you credit Jac for wanting to learn from your experience rather then condemning the person. You're a better person then I am in that instance...
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bestbefore: It wasn't too long ago that Caylee Marie Anthony was found dead.
No-one paid the price for her life.
It seems to me that there is no value whatsoever put on human life these days.
Taking a child's life to hurt another human being is beyond my comprehension.
No-one paid the price for her life.
It seems to me that there is no value whatsoever put on human life these days.
Taking a child's life to hurt another human being is beyond my comprehension.
I had a feeling this would come up. Well I don't know if I would say no one paid the price for little Caylee's death. The grandparents were devistated and I think deep in her heart, Casey Anthony was sad that her daughter had died.
It was a drowning accident that IMO was covered up by the grandfather. Not important that I go into all the details. Casey Anthony was found not guilty, but she was brought back to court and put on probabtion for a year. I don't know the details but I'm sure when the year is over she will be back in the bars getting drunk and dancing. I don't care anymore. The jury had to find her not guilty because there wasn't any proof. A jury is told that they have to find someone not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That is how our legal system works.
This guy who killed his daughter won't go to trial because he has admitted that he did it.
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montecito: In the U.S. our law system requires us to protect prisoners from harm of other prisoners and that is why he will most likely be in isolation. No matter how bad other prisoners are, they do not like child abusers/killers so he wouldn't have a chance to be in the regular environment. The fact that we abide by the law isn't making him a hero, we are just protecting him because we have to.
To say that this crime has nothing to do with you in technically correct, however, it is a crime against humanity and that is why it affects most people. When the Towers came down, it had nothing to do with anyone outside of the U.S. but people did feel sadness and fear because it was a crime against humanity. A crime because there was anger towards the U.S.
When the man in Norway killed all those children, I felt horrific sadness for the parents and for Norway. It had nothing to do with me, but it had everything to do with humanity.
To say that this crime has nothing to do with you in technically correct, however, it is a crime against humanity and that is why it affects most people. When the Towers came down, it had nothing to do with anyone outside of the U.S. but people did feel sadness and fear because it was a crime against humanity. A crime because there was anger towards the U.S.
When the man in Norway killed all those children, I felt horrific sadness for the parents and for Norway. It had nothing to do with me, but it had everything to do with humanity.
Golly Monte, lay of those zinc pastilles, will you?
In bold, I didn't say isolating a criminal for his own protection made him into a hero at all. Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick.
As for the rest, I agree and I've already said there's a difference between expressing sorrow and expressing the desire that the same crime be commited against a perpetrator. If a crime of unspeakable inhumanity is commited by one person, the same crime commited against them is no less a crime of unspeakable humanity. That was the whole point I was trying to make.
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jac379: Golly Monte, lay of those zinc pastilles, will you?
In bold, I didn't say isolating a criminal for his own protection made him into a hero at all. Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick.
As for the rest, I agree and I've already said there's a difference between expressing sorrow and expressing the desire that the same crime be commited against a perpetrator. If a crime of unspeakable inhumanity is commited by one person, the same crime commited against them is no less a crime of unspeakable humanity. That was the whole point I was trying to make.
i have to disagree.i think if a man who ties a car jack to a 2 year olds car seat and throws her off a bridge knowing shes going to drown should lose any rights he has to life.and i think if someone kills him they should get a medal.god only knows wat that poor child suffered in her last minutes on this earth.In bold, I didn't say isolating a criminal for his own protection made him into a hero at all. Talk about getting the wrong end of the stick.
As for the rest, I agree and I've already said there's a difference between expressing sorrow and expressing the desire that the same crime be commited against a perpetrator. If a crime of unspeakable inhumanity is commited by one person, the same crime commited against them is no less a crime of unspeakable humanity. That was the whole point I was trying to make.
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montecito: So you analyzed why the crime took place against you. When you were satisfied with the reasoning of why it took place it enabled you to move on, to forgive, to not put yourself or your family in that environment again. I understand that. I also had a crime against me but it's not important to get into it but I will say, even though I know why it happened, it didn't lessen the pain of knowing it happened and especially who did it.
The mother of this child is not from high society or a highly educated person. Regardless, she has a plethora of family and friends that will help her cope BUT she will never get over the loss of her child. When a child dies from an illness, parents rarely get over it but they do move on in their lives. This child was murdered.....I was going to say in a horrific way....but it doesn't matter how the murder happened....it just matters that it happened. I don't see how this mother will be able to take the course that you took to move on in her life. She's not highly educated or capable of trying to understand what happened. All she knows is the pain.
The negative cycle you broke out of is called forgiveness. Many people are able to forgive their transgressor. I give you credit Jac for wanting to learn from your experience rather then condemning the person. You're a better person then I am in that instance...
The mother of this child is not from high society or a highly educated person. Regardless, she has a plethora of family and friends that will help her cope BUT she will never get over the loss of her child. When a child dies from an illness, parents rarely get over it but they do move on in their lives. This child was murdered.....I was going to say in a horrific way....but it doesn't matter how the murder happened....it just matters that it happened. I don't see how this mother will be able to take the course that you took to move on in her life. She's not highly educated or capable of trying to understand what happened. All she knows is the pain.
The negative cycle you broke out of is called forgiveness. Many people are able to forgive their transgressor. I give you credit Jac for wanting to learn from your experience rather then condemning the person. You're a better person then I am in that instance...
I have moved on, but I'm still moving on. I don't know that its ever a completed process for anyone.
I don't know that I'm "satisfied" with the reasons behind the crime. I don't know if its possible to be satisfied as long as crimes are being perpetrated against others. That's why, I suppose I push for positive change, rather than lynchings. Hate is just part of the same cycle.
I don't know that "forgive" is the right word either. I've heard it used in such situations, but for me the word has religious connotations and I'm not religious. Its not really important to bestow forgiveness upon the perpetrator. Apart from the fact he is nought but ashes in the wind, why should I give the perpetrator anything? Its about me, my loved ones, other people who don't deserve to have such crimes commiteed against them.
From your other thread on this subject, I think you said that the mother is religious and said that god wanted to take her daughter back. I agree with your comment, if it helps her get through this, then that's something. I have no idea how intelligent, or well educated she is, but she may be more able to forgive than any of us if she has a strong faith. I also agree that she will probably never completely get over this. All that we can hope for is to find some level of inner peace.
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Its horrifying no matter how you look at it. I think we should let the judicial system do its work. Prison justice is unimaginable in depth of cruelty and evil. One way or another he will pay the piper. 
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jac379: I have moved on, but I'm still moving on. I don't know that its ever a completed process for anyone.
I don't know that I'm "satisfied" with the reasons behind the crime. I don't know if its possible to be satisfied as long as crimes are being perpetrated against others. That's why, I suppose I push for positive change, rather than lynchings. Hate is just part of the same cycle.
I don't know that "forgive" is the right word either. I've heard it used in such situations, but for me the word has religious connotations and I'm not religious. Its not really important to bestow forgiveness upon the perpetrator. Apart from the fact he is nought but ashes in the wind, why should I give the perpetrator anything? Its about me, my loved ones, other people who don't deserve to have such crimes commiteed against them.
From your other thread on this subject, I think you said that the mother is religious and said that god wanted to take her daughter back. I agree with your comment, if it helps her get through this, then that's something. I have no idea how intelligent, or well educated she is, but she may be more able to forgive than any of us if she has a strong faith. I also agree that she will probably never completely get over this. All that we can hope for is to find some level of inner peace.
I don't know that I'm "satisfied" with the reasons behind the crime. I don't know if its possible to be satisfied as long as crimes are being perpetrated against others. That's why, I suppose I push for positive change, rather than lynchings. Hate is just part of the same cycle.
I don't know that "forgive" is the right word either. I've heard it used in such situations, but for me the word has religious connotations and I'm not religious. Its not really important to bestow forgiveness upon the perpetrator. Apart from the fact he is nought but ashes in the wind, why should I give the perpetrator anything? Its about me, my loved ones, other people who don't deserve to have such crimes commiteed against them.
From your other thread on this subject, I think you said that the mother is religious and said that god wanted to take her daughter back. I agree with your comment, if it helps her get through this, then that's something. I have no idea how intelligent, or well educated she is, but she may be more able to forgive than any of us if she has a strong faith. I also agree that she will probably never completely get over this. All that we can hope for is to find some level of inner peace.
Yes she is very regligious and hopefully her belief that God took her daughter to His home will bring her peace. She just might be smarter then any of us who want to lynch the guy.
It's been fun my friend but I have to log off now. Thanks for your time. Hugs and kisses..
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montecito: I'm sorry that you feel I have misunderstood you.
I know you didn't say the word intervention but you did mention something about trying to break the cycle. I can't remember which post it was in. I agree you didn't mention rehabilitation but again, I get the feeling that you think people can be cured who have committed horrific crimes. I get the feeling that you think if you avoid a negative attitude after a horrific crime it will enable you to find peace with the person who did it and more importantly, find peace with yourself.
I don't think I'm reading into what you said. You need to remember Jac, you have a degree in psychiatry. I have a background in street sense. You express yourself in a language I'm not familiar with. Sometimes the two don't meet because IMO psychiatrist try to make everything all better by using reasoning. If this man didn't admit that he killed his daughter, I wouldn't have any cause to hate him so much because all I would have to go on is what the media wrote and I know that the media embellishes the news. But he admitted it so I feel right in my hatred for him. I don't want to understand him.
I don't feel that my hatred for him is going to cause another child to be murdered so there is no cycle as far as I'm concerned.
I know you didn't say the word intervention but you did mention something about trying to break the cycle. I can't remember which post it was in. I agree you didn't mention rehabilitation but again, I get the feeling that you think people can be cured who have committed horrific crimes. I get the feeling that you think if you avoid a negative attitude after a horrific crime it will enable you to find peace with the person who did it and more importantly, find peace with yourself.
I don't think I'm reading into what you said. You need to remember Jac, you have a degree in psychiatry. I have a background in street sense. You express yourself in a language I'm not familiar with. Sometimes the two don't meet because IMO psychiatrist try to make everything all better by using reasoning. If this man didn't admit that he killed his daughter, I wouldn't have any cause to hate him so much because all I would have to go on is what the media wrote and I know that the media embellishes the news. But he admitted it so I feel right in my hatred for him. I don't want to understand him.
I don't feel that my hatred for him is going to cause another child to be murdered so there is no cycle as far as I'm concerned.
I have a degree in psychology, not psychiatry. To be a psychiatrist you have to do a medical doctorate and then a post doctorate in psychiatry. I'm just a snot nosed graduate.
Cycles can be broken in many ways. Let's take the example of domestic violence that you used earlier. Say a man beats his wife. The cycle may be broken at this point - some men do realise that its wrong and stop (sometimes its when a child grows big enough to smack them back and protect their mother, sometimes the man just grows up, sometimes he seeks help, whatever).
There is also the cycle where children who have witnessed violence in the home, or have been subjected to violence grow up knowing that its no way to behave. They can break the cycle by not behaving that way.
Sometimes, violence in the home can go on for generations before someone breaks the cycle.
Another way of breaking the cycle is to open up this issue in society, make it so its not a shameful thing that goes on behind closed doors and for society to put pressure on the individual through all sorts of means (refuges, law, change in availabilty of seperation and divorce, peer pressure, etc).
To be concerned about the perpetrator in this case is a little like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. I have no idea if he's a candidiate for rehabilitation, or not, or how that could come about.
We have no control over events that have already happened. We do have control over our own behaviour, however and if our expressions of violence directly feed into the societal cycle that enables this sort of thing to happen then we have a case to answer for ourselves. Its like a man who suggests beating a misbehaving wife - encouraging certain behaviours is part of the crime.
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montecito: Yes she is very regligious and hopefully her belief that God took her daughter to His home will bring her peace. She just might be smarter then any of us who want to lynch the guy.
It's been fun my friend but I have to log off now. Thanks for your time. Hugs and kisses..
It's been fun my friend but I have to log off now. Thanks for your time. Hugs and kisses..
Nos da, Monte.
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halfavag: ive been watching my 2 year old granddaughter play here all night.ive watched her trying feed her doll a bottle and babbling away in her baby talk. like a 2 year old should.im going to see her face christmas morning wen santy comes. im going to see her grow into a girl then a woman please god. he took that away from that child.he murdered her in a very cruel way.she was only a baby.so yes i hope someone kills him. i dont care who as long as somebody does it.and if it was my child or grandchild id find a way to do it myself.theres no excuse for wat he did.it was cold blooded murder of an innocent little baby.
I understand how precious our children and grandchildren are, my daughter and granddaughter are sleeping in the next room, but you didn't answer my questions.
How do you think his murder will promote the security of our children and grandchildren?
Personally, I don't trust a god to look after mine. No god looked after this little girl, why should mine be any more special to a god?
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jac379: I was going to ignore this non-zinc-lozenge outburst as I was a little taken aback by it, but perhaps when you come back online you'll play with me a little more on this.
Why do you think he needs to feel these things?
Why do you think he needs to feel these things?
I wasn't going to come back on but you pulled me in Jac...
Because he inflicted pain and death on someone and he shouldn't get away with it.
If he was kind, generous and loving, I think he should feel the same compassion from someone so why shouldn't he feel the horror that he forced upon this little girl.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Another one.....Life is a two-way street.
And, the best one....the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
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jac379: I understand how precious our children and grandchildren are, my daughter and granddaughter are sleeping in the next room, but you didn't answer my questions.
How do you think his murder will promote the security of our children and grandchildren?
Personally, I don't trust a god to look after mine. No god looked after this little girl, why should mine be any more special to a god?
it wont do anything for our kids but it would be nice to know he suffered and died.some crimes are just so horrific that the person who commits it doesnt deserve to live.to me this is one of them.and maybe just maybe if there was a death sentence waiting for the likes of him it might stop someone else from doing the same thingHow do you think his murder will promote the security of our children and grandchildren?
Personally, I don't trust a god to look after mine. No god looked after this little girl, why should mine be any more special to a god?
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montecito: I wasn't going to come back on but you pulled me in Jac...
Because he inflicted pain and death on someone and he shouldn't get away with it.
If he was kind, generous and loving, I think he should feel the same compassion from someone so why shouldn't he feel the horror that he forced upon this little girl.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Another one.....Life is a two-way street.
And, the best one....the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
well said. totally agree with youBecause he inflicted pain and death on someone and he shouldn't get away with it.
If he was kind, generous and loving, I think he should feel the same compassion from someone so why shouldn't he feel the horror that he forced upon this little girl.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Another one.....Life is a two-way street.
And, the best one....the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
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montecito: I wasn't going to come back on but you pulled me in Jac...
Because he inflicted pain and death on someone and he shouldn't get away with it.
If he was kind, generous and loving, I think he should feel the same compassion from someone so why shouldn't he feel the horror that he forced upon this little girl.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Another one.....Life is a two-way street.
And, the best one....the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Because he inflicted pain and death on someone and he shouldn't get away with it.
If he was kind, generous and loving, I think he should feel the same compassion from someone so why shouldn't he feel the horror that he forced upon this little girl.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander...
Another one.....Life is a two-way street.
And, the best one....the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
My question was more, what purpose do you see in him feeling these things? Is it just retribution, an eye for an eye? Or do you see some other function in him feeling these things?
As for the last sentence, do unto others as you would have done unto you, I assume your happy, if you advocate that he should feel his head crack open, heart explode, blah, blah, blah that someone should also advocate that happens to you? Or are some people exempt from the golden rule?
I always thought the idea of do unto others etc. was that we should treat each other well and in doing so create a better societal environment.
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patmac: Discuss the case all you like and pass an opinion by all means. But, you need to stick to the facts....And there is no fact showing any of your assumptions John.
The case needs to be heard and judged on the facts and only the facts.
I do not know why this man did what he did,but he will surely suffer in jail. In all honesty he will be lucky to last few years before he is killed.
The case needs to be heard and judged on the facts and only the facts.
I do not know why this man did what he did,but he will surely suffer in jail. In all honesty he will be lucky to last few years before he is killed.
Drug use and violent crime: monitoring major crime and justice issues at the AIC - Part 1
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Jac, little Ella is about 6 months old....I think. I find it hard to believe that if someone committed a crime against that little angel that you would go to your psychological background to try to figure out why he/she did it.
Personally, I wouldn't care why he did it. All that matters is that he did it and in this case he admitted that he did it.
I will update further as the case progresses. He's not going anywhere unless someone comes up with 10 million dollars for the bail.
Closure can be found in many ways.
I have had a crime commited against me and working out some of the reasons of how and why is exactly what I have done.
Sure I've been through the angry phase. I had a rage in me as deep as the oceans. That was part of the grieving process and for my own personal survival only.
The behavioural/psychological analysis since then has had two functions. Its been both healing and more importantly understanding is preventitive. If I recognise the psychological and behavioural environment in which the crime took place I can better protect myself, my child and my grandchild. I can break out of a negative cycle, I can show others its possible to break out of a negative cycle, I can stop being a part of negative cycles that lead to hate and hate crimes.