Fear vs Fearless

BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Fear vs Fearless
A number of psychologists contend, and I tend to agree that people are moved more by fear then by opportunity. Instead of grasping moments of opportunity we let fear manage our response and run away, freeze or act out in some way that further complicates that opportunity.

The belief as I understand it is based on the fact that we are born alone. Then comes that moment in youth when self awareness happens and the realization that we are alone and nothing can ever alter that. Face it, we're alone and there is no togetherness that will ever change that fact.

Some psychologists believe that this one single fear, is what follows us through life creating all manner of problem behaviors when one hasn't discharged or released the emotion of alone, lonely, sad. This fear manifests in relationships in a number of ways, such as feeling that someone won't support you, or has hurt you and may again, or that they are selfish, jerks, etc. This is the fear of being alone, projecting on others.

They don't suggest that partnering is bad but that partnering without dealing with that basic fear results in the inability to see opportunity for love and joy and take action fearlessly to manifest it. Essentially that fear blinds one to experiences and keeps us in a holding pattern of repetitious fear based relationship failures.

What do you think?

Who wants to play with my junk? laugh OK, playing with my junk isn't part of the theory but the question stands cos I'm like that. blushing
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Double Posting? CS must consider this an important question. innocent
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bodleing

Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Indeed, we never really recover from the trauma of the great separation we suffer when leaving the womb.

uh oh wave
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
bodleing: Indeed, we never really recover from the trauma of the great separation we suffer when leaving the womb.


G'day Gra. wave

I suspect there are grades of fear and fearlessness in each of us; no two people alike; but me thinks awareness of this fact is at least the beginning to resolving that basic primal fear and emotion. So, the possibility to recover exists even if one has built a plethora of layered walls in respect of that fear.

At least that the idea. dunno





cheers
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Konigsberg Konigsberg

Jurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Heavy stuff
laugh

However:

I get the feeling that it is not Fear you are talking about but, being not self- confident. For people with out self-confidence, rejection (any rejection) could cause a punch in a Pride.

So the combination of being not self- confident but having a pride is a kind of stopper from the taking an opportunities. conversing

Born alone, die alone .. I love it thumbs up grin
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bodleing

Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK

Re: Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers: G'day Gra.

I suspect there are grades of fear and fearlessness in each of us; no two people alike; but me thinks awareness of this fact is at least the beginning to resolving that basic primal fear and emotion. So, the possibility to recover exists even if one has built a plethora of layered walls in respect of that fear.

At least that the idea.


"Maturity implies not so much avoiding being abandoned, but in abandoning ourselves with few illusions...If we succeed in bearing the anxiety of solitude, new horizons will open to us and we will learn finally to exist independently of others."

Carotenuto
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Konigsberg: Heavy stuff


However:

I get the feeling that it is not Fear you are talking about but, being not self- confident. For people with out self-confidence, rejection (any rejection) could cause a punch in a Pride.

So the combination of being not self- confident but having a pride is a kind of stopper from the taking an opportunities.

Born alone, die alone .. I love it


These guys (psychologists) would disagree with you I think. I do as well, since lack of confidence is an offshoot of fear. It could be that one who lacks confidence has experienced failure in attempts to manifest togetherness because they haven't dealt with the primal fear of alone, lonely, sad.

'Rejection' is fear of being alone. While it can mutate into other feelings as you suggest, like pride, confidence and many others like anger, suspicion depression, it is still that basic primal fear of realizing that you're alone that drives the mutation of emotions we experience.

So, emotions and feelings like confidence, apathy, anger, pride and really all emotions are compounded extensions of that mishandled primal fear. A parent for instance could instill confidence in a child by allaying that fear in childhood, essentially making the child's fear of aloneness less traumatic or less emotional.

You're alone it's true, but there are others her who care about you. That kind of reassurance mitigates the fear of alone. Not everyone gets that from a parent so the incidence of alone and lonely create a lack of confidence and then those compounded emotional distresses through life. At least that's the way I understand it.

When a person has been taught, as many have, and probably most people have, to squelch and internalize emotion, there is then no discharge of trauma/emotion and no resolution to feeling alone.

They say that this is how walls are built. Walls that 'we think' are protection against aloneness, rejection etc. are really the compounded results of mishandled primal fear. It stops us from being more fearless and grasping opportunities when they come along or ruins relationships that get established because the root fear will manifest in one way or another at some point as for example... jealousy, abandonment, insecurity, rejection, feeling unloved, unworthy, not confident, etc etc. Those are all mutations of the emotional realization that we are 'alone'.


Nice to see you again K.!
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
bodleing: "Maturity implies not so much avoiding being abandoned, but in abandoning ourselves with few illusions...If we succeed in bearing the anxiety of solitude, new horizons will open to us and we will learn finally to exist independently of others."

Carotenuto


hmmm That phrase seems a bit perfunctory. As if it's duty to bear. I guess it has some merit that I'm not seeing, or maybe the words "independent of others' is what's throwing me off? Independence is a further realization of being alone?

I think the word independence is often a poorly chosen word in a world that thrives on interdependance. What am I missing here Gra?
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
PS:
Konigsberg: Heavy stuff


Born alone, live alone, die alone .. I love it


I think this, (the words in blue) completes the sequence of awareness, the reality of it all K.? Wouldn't you say? And if you can love that, you're on your way, at least in part.

We really are living alone as well, even if we have a partner, the chance of feeling alone still exists and still pervades our responses for good or bad.
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NAKEDMUDPEOPLE NAKEDMUDPEOPLE

Somewhere, California USA

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Learning very early in life, I was alone, I needed faith and hope to live on.
After having a child, I knew she was mine only for a little while and I needed
to give her all by good.
Again, my parents are gone, brothers and sisters too, and with each passing
I know, I have never been alone.
I fear others with ill intent, I fear the lack of paying my way.
These are fears I have no control over.
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
NAKEDMUDPEOPLE: Learning very early in life, I was alone, I needed faith and hope to live on.
After having a child, I knew she was mine only for a little while and I needed
to give her all by good.
Again, my parents are gone, brothers and sisters too, and with each passing
I know, I have never been alone.
I fear others with ill intent, I fear the lack of paying my way.
These are fears I have no control over.


You've really been confronted with the cold hard facts and come through it with healthy responses it seems NMP.

I think your other fears, that you say you have no control over are mutable in the sense that, greeting them with excitement or wonder, rather than an inability to control the future or people in it, reduces and transmutes the fear. hug

Of course we can't control others to any extent but we can prefer to feel differently right now don't you think? dunno
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bodleing

Greater Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK

Re: Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers: That phrase seems a bit perfunctory. As if it's duty to bear. I guess it has some merit that I'm not seeing, or maybe the words "independent of others' is what's throwing me off? Independence is a further realization of being alone?

I think the word independence is often a poorly chosen word in a world that thrives on interdependance. What am I missing here Gra?


How many people claim when asked, they are independent?

As desirable as this notion of independence may be, most of our life is a flight from the anxiety of being totally present to ourselves and naked before the universe.
We fear the journey spent in solitude, in fact next to the fantasy of immorality, the hardest fantasy to relinquish is that there is someone out there to 'fix it' for us and spare us the burden of individualisation.

Individualisation rather than self absorption is wholeness, not goodness or happiness, not easily attained. The psyche comes across resistance from the unwilling ego when this state of being is sought after.

True independence is a summit too high and for some too unnerving to even consider the journey.

I realised the trueness and perhaps awfulness of our 'aloneness' many years ago during a particularly significant 'trip'. Coming to terms with it is unfortunately taking me a lifetime...laugh
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venusenvy

Calgary, Alberta Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
They say we are all hardwired for either fight or flight. I seem to be wired for fight.boxing One of my mantras in life is "fear has no power over my life" I find this empowering wine
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
bodleing: How many people claim when asked, they are independent?

As desirable as this notion of independence may be, most of our life is a flight from the anxiety of being totally present to ourselves and naked before the universe.
We fear the journey spent in solitude, in fact next to the fantasy of immorality, the hardest fantasy to relinquish is that there is someone out there to 'fix it' for us and spare us the burden of individualisation.

Individualisation rather than self absorption is wholeness, not goodness or happiness, not easily attained. The psyche comes across resistance from the unwilling ego when this state of being is sought after.

True independence is a summit too high and for some too unnerving to even consider the journey.

I realised the trueness and perhaps awfulness of our 'aloneness' many years ago during a particularly significant 'trip'. Coming to terms with it is unfortunately taking me a lifetime...


Well that certainly clears up your quoted post for me. In context of your explanation, it makes more sense to me now. thumbs up

I think I am in a similar position after being pummelled with traumas and unreliable people in the last six months to find out how truly on my own I am. Of course that's an emotional chain, processed by my own floundering perception, messing with what I know to be intellectual truth.

I'm not discounting the value of people in my life; because this all speaks to the seemingly contrary interdependent nature of humans trying to solve the problem of alone, emotional. Independent vs dependent is best served by interdependence me thinks, balancing duality so to speak.

If you believe as I do that emotion/action precedes thought (aka-awareness) then you get the sense that not only are we alone, we are perhaps more importantly not in control of anything.

I wonder if absolute enlightenment is when one is able to bridge or maybe just close the gap between our emotional experience and our post-awareness of it. hmmm

The issue of morality/immorality intrigues me as well since the basic nature of most life is to replicate itself. Everything from genes to memes and temes do this without conscious moral compunction, yet being aware of moral/immoral, changes the drive to replicate or at least puts replication to the test of that dual nature. Life seems to have it's own built in checks and balances.
wine
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olaix

Valhalla, Nordland Norway

Re: Fear vs Fearless


What do you think?



Reasonable take on it, although it varies lol, or we'd all be neurotic grin

What you have written is true, but it does not understand fear, which is the interesting part thumbs up
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venusenvy

Calgary, Alberta Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
Personally dear BB...I would rather turn and face something head-on no matter how bad than have the fear of something hanging over me.wine
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
venusenvy: They say we are all hardwired for either fight or flight. I seem to be wired for fight. One of my mantras in life is "fear has no power over my life" I find this empowering


Mantras can be a good thing E. I guess it's a good thing to believe too; but I have to ask if you can honestly say it has no power over you? This ties in with my previous thread on surrender and since no fear (which woud result if it had absolutely no power over you) would mean that you'd surrender to everything and anything. You'd be empowering fearlessness if I read you correctly. dunno

As Gra has noted, it's a pretty tall order. In my own beliefs lies the connection between surrender, submission, giving, allow. They are all mutations of what we call love. Essentially they all mean the same thing, they're just derivations of love that try to define a specific act done in love.

One can't feel love in any real sense when they are trying to control things and trying to control things is rooted in fear of things not going our way for whatever reason, mostly fear of pain, emotional or otherwise. Suffering is something we do alone as well and admittedly we humans by and large have an aversion to that. One of the major reasons why I have a great deal of respect for people who are able to surrender in situations where many would flinch, freeze, or alone run away.

The hard wiring you mention, is a biochemical process and true. It's not something we can control. It's something that relies on biological functions that are mostly unique in us all, even though we have similarities in responses related to fight, flight surrender. You'll notice I included surrender in there. It too is a function of that hard wiring. There are other factors that affect it as well, including belief systems, teaching, perception of self safety and other environmental stimuli. Both flight and fight are aggressive or passive aggressive methods of controlling the outcome, so, far from surrender.

Ommm to buns. hug
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BB_snickers BB_snickers

Narnia, Ontario Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
olaix: Reasonable take on it, although it varies lol, or we'd all be neurotic

What you have written is true, but it does not understand fear, which is the interesting part



I'd certainly welcome your particular and personal understanding of fear if you'd care to share. cheers
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patmac

glasgow, Strathclyde, Scotland UK

Re: Fear vs Fearless
bodleing: Indeed, we never really recover from the trauma of the great separation we suffer when leaving the womb.


Yep spent 9 months trying to get out.


And some fifty years to get back in.devil devil

Succeeded a few times.wink grin cheers
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venusenvy

Calgary, Alberta Canada

Re: Fear vs Fearless
I think fear in itself is a natural survival instinct, we have it for good reason. However, I think a lot of peeps carry it too far and end up letting it rule thier lives. I just know decisions motivated by fear or emotional duress always end up badly. I practice Buddist detachment as relates to fear and it helps me put into perspective. peace
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