Fear vs Fearless ( Archived) (75)

Feb 4, 2012 8:14 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
single4ever: Thanks BB for your insight and yes what you said makes sense. I mentioned the Hermit thing as my brother is very much like one since his divorce. Now he does phone and may visit with me a couple times in a year (he only lives 18 km away), he makes the visit short and has to be home. So, is it fair to say he is running away from something?


I couldn't answer that since there are a myriad of possibilites for the action. Anything from social phobias to chemical dependance is possible. It's also possible that he's just decided to withdraw to a peaceful being and only shows up to appease the feelings of others. Hard to say. So without enough info it isn't fair to say anything. it would only be conjecture on my part.


single4ever:
I suppose in a way I am running away too. I don't give much thought to being alone actually but I do wonder why people think that attaching themselves in a romantic relationship will take away that loneliness if they haven't addressed that childhood fear of being lonely. So, that being said does anyone really get over the fear of alone or do we just run to others to eliviate that fear?


The mind is easily fooled as you might have noticed, so indeed some alleviation can result. It's superficial as I said. What is problematic is that the emotion remains unresolved and continually manifests itself in any further connections with others. At least that is what these some psychologists are saying.

I don't think it's wrong to connect with others for any reason. I don't think that is the issue. I think it is more about dealing with that primal fear in a way the disperses the entropy before it builds and compounds itself. Not easy in a society that treats emotion as something to avoid. (because of fear mind you) Anyway, whether you run from or run to a relationship, it isn't the question or the answer here.
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Feb 4, 2012 8:16 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
kidatheart
kidatheartkidatheartFruitvale, British Columbia Canada30 Threads 16,544 Posts
venusenvy: O you have gas?



Get a cork, and wear eye protection.cool


laugh
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Feb 4, 2012 9:21 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
venusenvy: O you have gas?


laugh The batbumcape diffuses any maliferous odours. grin
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Feb 4, 2012 9:31 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
joyaepace: I read somewhere that the conscious mind has no control over the ancient part of brain, amygdala. That is where all fears reside. Being instinctive and primitive it would not listen to arguments of reason, but rather repeat the old fear again and again. Some people have more active amygdala than other and thus more anxious. So, you just live with that.


hmmm Sources? Would love to peruse these assertions.

I think that biochemical processes are at least partly if not primarily in control. And I'm relatively certain that the hippocampus and it's chemical ingredient (seratonin I think) are responsible for the fight, flight and surrender behaviors.
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Feb 5, 2012 8:18 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
jono7:
cure implies remedy to me, amelioration is what you mean...is my understanding...as this would be 'temporary' at most?


Thanks. Someday I'll figure out what I mean all by myself, so that someone doesn't have to ameliorate it for me. It could be curative and that doesn't necessarily guarantee against reoccurrence. Semantics remedied. laugh

jono7:
yes. but looking at my bruise and poking it are entirely two different experiences for me. is it more of a bruise because i poked it? no. but my experience of it, or my connection to it does become more accentuated. the act of interacting with the truth of my bruise does feel more painful...? is this making sense? lol.


No it doesn't make sense. The tail shouldn't be wagging the dog; but it happens, metaphorically speaking. You're compounding your truths, bruise, re-bruise, poke poke poke. You have a bruise, truth. you poked it, truth, you poked it again truth. On and on. The act of focusing attention and some OCD (laugh) makes it more painful, (providing you haven't reached endorphin ranges that turn it to a more pleasurable feeling) it doesn't change the fact that you had a bruise, then a bigger one and a bigger one or that you poked more vigorously once and less the next.

It's generally called aggravation, and it increases the character of the bruise maybe, not the truth that you had a bruise.


jono7:
how the heck can ya raise it, if ya can't accentuate it?..(grin)


I think poking it would be curatively remedying.. rolling on the floor laughing

jono7:
and all of this assumes that one adheres to the popular belief that the world we live in has an absolute material reality.


My imaginary friends are asking me what a less than absolute material reality is and how would one live there. Sometimes I just ignore them and their philosophic meanderings because that's a completely different thread. giggle

jono7:

i still believe there is no separation.


7 of 9 had that kind of life. She was hot and fantasy worthy. yay Those damn Borg and their hive brain. Made her crazy. I'd still do her though if I could separate her from the maddening crowd. I mean, who wants to bone millions of braindead hot chicks at the same time and then be told by millions of them, nagging me over and over, to take the garbage out. doh Major fear! laugh




I was just trying to perfect my social skills. We are as one! uh oh
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Feb 5, 2012 9:45 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
jono7:

i still believe there is no separation.


back on topic!

In the absence of proof regarding conscious oneness, spirituality; do you suppose it's possible that such an unsubstantiated belief is put in place to avoid or answer the 'alone' realization? Just another way of dealing with the fear that doesn't allow one to discharge the emotion. Essentially masking or disguising the truth, trying to make it non existent.

I've often wondered why xtians believe things like jesus is my saviour without any proof. Saved from what? Well, eternal damnation of course. Who wouldn't be afraid of that?? So, where's the proof of eternal damnation. Logical fallacies abound. Fear is a pretty useful tool in control... even more so to the unaware.
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Feb 5, 2012 11:55 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
RedSpaceDuck
RedSpaceDuckRedSpaceDuckUmbongo Land, Greater Manchester, England UK1 Threads 61 Posts
Fear has its purpose, it will keep you on your toes when you need to be on your toes. Fear will alert you to danger where danger exists.

As for fearless, there's no such thing, there's only fear and whether you choose to face it, or not.
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Feb 5, 2012 2:39 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
BB_snickers: Sources? Would love to peruse these assertions.

I think that biochemical processes are at least partly if not primarily in control. And I'm relatively certain that the hippocampus and it's chemical ingredient (seratonin I think) are responsible for the fight, flight and surrender behaviors.


I don't remember. I have Scientific American and WebMed on my iGoogle home page and I get my info from there often or from the links from there. But can't tell for sure. But what control do you mean biochemical processes are under? Control of mind or what? I am not strong in human anatomy, but only know that some processes may be controlled consciously and some not. There was something about sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.
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Feb 5, 2012 6:38 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
jono7
jono7jono7Out West, British Columbia Canada3 Threads 8,017 Posts
i feel misunderstood. (poor writing on my part, sorry)but in a round about way, you answered my question. it doesn't cure anything, more a case of distraction at best.

no, i only poked it once. lol
it didn't get bigger. it only brought my attention to the truth i had a bruise.

not sure why you feel a need to keep poking...because that would be a different, more ocd truth...grin
(and i'm sure there's room in there for a joke now..lol)

perhaps a better example would be there's a bug on the wall in a dark room. i shine a light on it. the bug is there, whether the light is shone on it or not. but shining a light on it, does accentuate the presence of the bug.

but to stay more on topic, in answer to the thread question,
"what do you think",
i think that we all enter into relationships with various degrees of 'baggage', and in a successful relationship, we deal with those things together..take the risks, and spend much of our time with our focus on that relationship, and consequently don't shine the light on the aloneness.

if one wants to feel alone, they will.
if one wants to feel a part of, they will.
jmho.
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Feb 6, 2012 11:56 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
BB_snickers: These guys (psychologists) would disagree with you I think. I do as well, since lack of confidence is an offshoot of fear. It could be that one who lacks confidence has experienced failure in attempts to manifest togetherness because they haven't dealt with the primal fear of alone, lonely, sad.

'Rejection' is fear of being alone. While it can mutate into other feelings as you suggest, like pride, confidence and many others like anger, suspicion depression, it is still that basic primal fear of realizing that you're alone that drives the mutation of emotions we experience.

So, emotions and feelings like confidence, apathy, anger, pride and really all emotions are compounded extensions of that mishandled primal fear. A parent for instance could instill confidence in a child by allaying that fear in childhood, essentially making the child's fear of aloneness less traumatic or less emotional.

You're alone it's true, but there are others her who care about you. That kind of reassurance mitigates the fear of alone. Not everyone gets that from a parent so the incidence of alone and lonely create a lack of confidence and then those compounded emotional distresses through life. At least that's the way I understand it.

When a person has been taught, as many have, and probably most people have, to squelch and internalize emotion, there is then no discharge of trauma/emotion and no resolution to feeling alone.

They say that this is how walls are built. Walls that 'we think' are protection against aloneness, rejection etc. are really the compounded results of mishandled primal fear. It stops us from being more fearless and grasping opportunities when they come along or ruins relationships that get established because the root fear will manifest in one way or another at some point as for example... jealousy, abandonment, insecurity, rejection, feeling unloved, unworthy, not confident, etc etc. Those are all mutations of the emotional realization that we are 'alone'. Nice to see you again K.!



You should be a psychologist or a philosopher,Snickers! Can't call you BB, because it is how Brigitte Bardot's nickname. lol

Can't debate this topic with you as well. Because to me ... the feeling to be alone ... is welcoming. I don't see any problem with the feeling of loneliness. In my understanding The happiest times of human life are: when a child is still in a mother's womb and when they finally leaving this life.

Everything in a middle, is just a theater, with heroes and weaklings, successes and failures. What we call life.

And again ... in one of your posts, you have mention the fear of damnation. I have been thinking about it. And came to a conclusion it can be applied only to people who trust in God. You cannot use this fear to control someone who doesn't believe in Hell and Paradise. Those people are immune to this kind of control.


When I was young I have been into all that philosophical stuff. But then I've discovered that, the more you trying to explain the more you getting tangled in a web of questions and answers. It can get quite dark, in that web, you know.


Amor fati!

I wish we could talk in Russian on that subject .. I could be more sophisticated with vocabulary

laugh

conversing grin
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Feb 6, 2012 5:54 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
venusenvy
venusenvyvenusenvyCalgary, Alberta Canada27 Threads 20,003 Posts
kidatheart: Get a cork, and wear eye protection.


rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 6, 2012 5:55 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
venusenvy
venusenvyvenusenvyCalgary, Alberta Canada27 Threads 20,003 Posts
BB_snickers: The batbumcape diffuses any maliferous odours.


Phew! good godamn thing eh grin
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Feb 6, 2012 5:58 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
venusenvy
venusenvyvenusenvyCalgary, Alberta Canada27 Threads 20,003 Posts
RedSpaceDuck: Fear has its purpose, it will keep you on your toes when you need to be on your toes. Fear will alert you to danger where danger exists.

As for fearless, there's no such thing, there's only fear and whether you choose to face it, or not.


Oya?? What about Zombies??? Zombies are fearless professor
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Feb 6, 2012 9:31 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
joyaepace: I don't remember. I have Scientific American and WebMed on my iGoogle home page and I get my info from there often or from the links from there. But can't tell for sure. But what control do you mean biochemical processes are under? Control of mind or what? I am not strong in human anatomy, but only know that some processes may be controlled consciously and some not. There was something about sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.


Thanks joy. I'll have a look.

The control we're under is primarily a biochemical process affected by what we ingest, or our environmental intake. Each of us is different, with unique biochemical bodies. We keep adding substances, chemicals, atoms etc. Kind of like a science project.

It's why pharmaceuticals don't work the same for everyone, not to mention other substances that we're mixing with our bodies on a daily basis.

A lot of those substances, chemicals and combinations have the ability to alter how we think and what we think. Even totally change your character and personality. It's why pharmaceuticals sell so well. The thing is it isn't just medicinal drugs that can do that. Every chemical, substance, element etc has it's own particular energy.

We also can't stop thinking. Ever wonder why that is.
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Feb 6, 2012 9:47 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
mnowsa
mnowsamnowsaRajshahi, Rajshahi Division Bangladesh145 Threads 3 Polls 7,536 Posts
yeap...the only fear we have is fear itself(did i say that right?)grin


















But i fear my wife...rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 6, 2012 10:01 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
jono7: i feel misunderstood. (poor writing on my part, sorry)but in a round about way, you answered my question. it doesn't cure anything, more a case of distraction at best.

no, i only poked it once. lol
it didn't get bigger. it only brought my attention to the truth i had a bruise.

not sure why you feel a need to keep poking...because that would be a different, more ocd truth...grin
(and i'm sure there's room in there for a joke now..lol)

perhaps a better example would be there's a bug on the wall in a dark room. i shine a light on it. the bug is there, whether the light is shone on it or not. but shining a light on it, does accentuate the presence of the bug.

but to stay more on topic, in answer to the thread question,
"what do you think",
i think that we all enter into relationships with various degrees of 'baggage', and in a successful relationship, we deal with those things together..take the risks, and spend much of our time with our focus on that relationship, and consequently don't shine the light on the aloneness.

if one wants to feel alone, they will.
if one wants to feel a part of, they will.
jmho.


If you squish that bug, is it still there? Deconstructed splatter atoms with a light on it.
Every moment of real and or imaginary truth is a truth to the perceiver. Not sure what you're heading for here. Did you have Accent Raid in anticipation of bugs?

Are you afraid of bugs? Who accents that? Or is a scarier bug? Don't poke the bug.

Problem with people wanting to feel certain ways is that determinism trumps 'will' every time. And then there's learned (programmed) behaviour that trumps superficial intent every time. What a mess.

I think as wel,l it's probably best (according to psychologists) to indeed shine the light on aloneness and more appropriately, the fear attached to it. The purpose of the OP.

Of course folks are entitled to ignore or pretend it's not there but the result is repetitive behaviors that continue to undermine their success rate with others. Not that success needs to be a goal for everyone. If there's free will one gets to choose failure and avoid change and still call the rut they're in, successful. Denial helps.

I like the OP for that reason because it shines a light and tells you to keep shining it.
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Feb 7, 2012 6:47 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
Konigsberg: You should be a psychologist or a philosopher,Snickers! Can't call you BB, because it is how Brigitte Bardot's nickname. lol

Can't debate this topic with you as well. Because to me ... the feeling to be alone ... is welcoming. I don't see any problem with the feeling of loneliness. In my understanding The happiest times of human life are: when a child is still in a mother's womb and when they finally leaving this life.

Everything in a middle, is just a theater, with heroes and weaklings, successes and failures. What we call life.

And again ... in one of your posts, you have mention the fear of damnation. I have been thinking about it. And came to a conclusion it can be applied only to people who trust in God. You cannot use this fear to control someone who doesn't believe in Hell and Paradise. Those people are immune to this kind of control. When I was young I have been into all that philosophical stuff. But then I've discovered that, the more you trying to explain the more you getting tangled in a web of questions and answers. It can get quite dark, in that web, you know.Amor fati!

I wish we could talk in Russian on that subject .. I could be more sophisticated with vocabulary


It sounds as if you have a well adjusted or balanced view of your aloneness K.

That philosophical stuff is great to discuss but you're right, in the end it isn't very practical in dealing with life. Could even be a bit distracting or serve some denial. Eventually you have to come down to earth and deal with it.

I think I'll just be a carpenter and work with my wood. rolling on the floor laughing
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Feb 7, 2012 4:07 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
single4ever
single4eversingle4everCalgary, Alberta Canada1,109 Posts
BB_snickers: I couldn't answer that since there are a myriad of possibilites for the action. Anything from social phobias to chemical dependance is possible. It's also possible that he's just decided to withdraw to a peaceful being and only shows up to appease the feelings of others. Hard to say. So without enough info it isn't fair to say anything. it would only be conjecture on my part.

The mind is easily fooled as you might have noticed, so indeed some alleviation can result. It's superficial as I said. What is problematic is that the emotion remains unresolved and continually manifests itself in any further connections with others. At least that is what these some psychologists are saying.

I don't think it's wrong to connect with others for any reason. I don't think that is the issue. I think it is more about dealing with that primal fear in a way the disperses the entropy before it builds and compounds itself. Not easy in a society that treats emotion as something to avoid. (because of fear mind you) Anyway, whether you run from or run to a relationship, it isn't the question or the answer here.


Thanks for your insight. cheers
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Feb 7, 2012 5:42 PM CST Fear vs Fearless
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
BB_snickers: Thanks joy. I'll have a look.

The control we're under is primarily a biochemical process affected by what we ingest, or our environmental intake. Each of us is different, with unique biochemical bodies. We keep adding substances, chemicals, atoms etc. Kind of like a science project.

It's why pharmaceuticals don't work the same for everyone, not to mention other substances that we're mixing with our bodies on a daily basis.

A lot of those substances, chemicals and combinations have the ability to alter how we think and what we think. Even totally change your character and personality. It's why pharmaceuticals sell so well. The thing is it isn't just medicinal drugs that can do that. Every chemical, substance, element etc has it's own particular energy.

We also can't stop thinking. Ever wonder why that is.


One thought came in my mind in regard of fear. Children have different fears than adults. I remember fearing some people and even things as a child and not being afraid sitting on the edge of the roof of five storey building, for instance. You just don't know that you have to be afraid before you learn that you have to. Now height is one of my biggest fears. I don't remember when I learned that fear or why it started. Also, people and other animals are born very different. Some are quite bold and some fearful from the beginning.

Obviously chemicals, substances and energies affect us. We have different blood types and even different gut bacteria types. That bacteria may have effects on bodies chemistry. It makes people susceptible to certain illnesses and immune to other. May be it can also affect brain chemistry. Or as Chinese medicine says that if energetical balances of organs are upset, they don't work properly. Chinese would say that overactive, messy head comes from bad digestion. Or that fear affects kidneys. If I was a bit richer I would try Chinese medicine for balancing energies and may be they would help with fears and digestion, both food and information! laugh
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Feb 8, 2012 8:05 AM CST Fear vs Fearless
BB_snickers
BB_snickersBB_snickersNarnia, Ontario Canada56 Threads 3,755 Posts
joyaepace: One thought came in my mind in regard of fear. Children have different fears than adults. I remember fearing some people and even things as a child and not being afraid sitting on the edge of the roof of five storey building, for instance. You just don't know that you have to be afraid before you learn that you have to. Now height is one of my biggest fears. I don't remember when I learned that fear or why it started. Also, people and other animals are born very different. Some are quite bold and some fearful from the beginning.

Obviously chemicals, substances and energies affect us. We have different blood types and even different gut bacteria types. That bacteria may have effects on bodies chemistry. It makes people susceptible to certain illnesses and immune to other. May be it can also affect brain chemistry. Or as Chinese medicine says that if energetical balances of organs are upset, they don't work properly. Chinese would say that overactive, messy head comes from bad digestion. Or that fear affects kidneys. If I was a bit richer I would try Chinese medicine for balancing energies and may be they would help with fears and digestion, both food and information!


I wonder if there's a correlation between poverty and mental conditions. hmmm
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