Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas... ( Archived) (42)

Apr 3, 2012 12:19 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
New security checks are already in place - even for flights hundreds of miles from American airspace

One million British travellers planning to fly to Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico this year face the risk of being turned away at the airport - at the insistence of the US Department of Homeland Security.

New rules require British Airways and other airlines flying to certain airports outside America to submit passengers' personal data to US authorities. The information is checked against a "No Fly" list containing tens of thousands of names. Even if the flight plan steers well clear of US territory, travellers whom the Americans regard as suspicious will be denied boarding.

Simon Hughes, the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, told The Independent: "The concern by the US for its own security is entirely understandable, but it seems to me it's a whole different issue that American wishes should determine the rights and choices of people travelling between two countries neither of which is the US."

For several years, every US-bound passenger has had to provide Advance Passenger Information (API) before departure. Washington has extended the obligation to air routes that over-fly US airspace, such as Heathrow to Mexico City or Gatwick to Havana.

Now the US is demanding passengers' full names, dates of birth and gender from airlines, at least 72 hour before departure from the UK to Canada. The initial requirement is for flights to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and the Nova Scotia capital, Halifax - 150 miles from the nearest US territory. A similar stipulation is expected soon for the main airports in western Canada, Vancouver and Calgary.

Any passenger who refuses to comply will be denied boarding. Those who do supply details may find their trip could be abruptly cancelled by the Department of Homeland Security, which says it will "ake boarding pass determinations up until the time a flight leaves the gate ... If a passenger successfully obtains a boarding pass, his/her name is not on the No Fly list." In other words, travellers cannot find out whether they will be accepted on board until they reach the airport.
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Apr 3, 2012 12:19 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
Canadian Affair, the leading charter operator between Britain and Canada, began supplying the data a week ago and 13,500 of its clients have complied with the demands. None has so far refused to provide the information and no one has been refused boarding.

Air Canada and British said they would comply with any new rules and The Independent understands that they will join the scheme in April. Flights to Mexico and Cuba - the Caribbean island closest to the US - are also included.

The US will have full details of all British visitors to Cuba, including business travellers, which could potentially be used to identify people suspected of breaking America's draconian sanctions against the Castro regime.

Neil Taylor, a tour operator who pioneered tourism to Cuba, said: "Imagine if the Chinese were to ask for such data on all passengers to Taiwan, and similarly if the Saudis were to ask about flights to Israel - would the US government understand?

"One also has to wonder how an American traveller in Europe would react if he were denied boarding on a flight from London to Rome because the German government had not received sufficient data from him."

Tony Wheeler, founder of Lonely Planet travel guides, said "This extension of the rule to include flights that never enter US airspace is scarcely credible. What on earth right does the US have to ask for passenger information if you're flying London-Havana?"

NOW BOARDING: WHO IS AFFECTED?

725,000: Number of British visitors to Canada each year. Airports affected: Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and Halifax

300,000: Number of British visitors to Mexico each year. Airports affected: Mexico City and Cancun

160,000: Number of British visitors to Cuba each year. Airports affected: Havana, Varadero and Holguin
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Apr 3, 2012 12:55 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
where u goinggrin
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Apr 3, 2012 1:00 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
pedro27: where u going

yep...guess I bought a space-shuttle for nothing...laugh
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Apr 3, 2012 1:05 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1: yep...guess I bought a space-shuttle for nothing...


appolo 13, huston we have boban drinking pepsi on board
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Apr 3, 2012 1:15 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
pops666
pops666pops666Waterloo,ontario, Ontario Canada4 Threads 1,387 Posts
See ... just another way for the govenment to keep eye on the world...soon you'll have to reprot how many times a year you sneeze at this rate...rolling on the floor laughing rolling on the floor laughing
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Apr 3, 2012 1:54 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
pointy
pointypointybirmingham, West Midlands, England UK60 Threads 1 Polls 751 Posts
those who think the battle between cold war is over they should think again...
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Apr 3, 2012 2:05 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
pointy
pointypointybirmingham, West Midlands, England UK60 Threads 1 Polls 751 Posts
one hundred years... i dont think it will be enough for me to understand politic of s.a........no any other europlane is allowed to do busness with habana except british and maybe himself......or let put saction to cuba but oh no....in field like marine science and Dr...etc...because they advance a lot.....free for student......but saction again to a cuban people living in us.....not to send money.......to much money..back home !!!
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Apr 3, 2012 2:13 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
pops666
pops666pops666Waterloo,ontario, Ontario Canada4 Threads 1,387 Posts
No...its just homeland security trying to control everyone and they are now paranoid because they have pissed off everyone...

They havent learned that you can only bully people long enough and then they fight back..
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Apr 3, 2012 2:23 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1: yep...guess I bought a space-shuttle for nothing...
Oh yeah? try buying a second hand concord.... "goes well" they said "Only one owner" they said "she's a classic "they said...

What they didnt say was that it would cost hundreds and thousands of dollars to fill up and that i wasnt allowed to fly it...mumbling

grin
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Apr 3, 2012 2:53 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
Boban1: New security checks are already in place - even for flights hundreds of miles from American airspace

One million British travellers planning to fly to Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico this year face the risk of being turned away at the airport - at the insistence of the US Department of Homeland Security.

New rules require British Airways and other airlines flying to certain airports outside America to submit passengers' personal data to US authorities. The information is checked against a "No Fly" list containing tens of thousands of names. Even if the flight plan steers well clear of US territory, travellers whom the Americans regard as suspicious will be denied boarding.

Simon Hughes, the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, told The Independent: "The concern by the US for its own security is entirely understandable, but it seems to me it's a whole different issue that American wishes should determine the rights and choices of people travelling between two countries neither of which is the US."

For several years, every US-bound passenger has had to provide Advance Passenger Information (API) before departure. Washington has extended the obligation to air routes that over-fly US airspace, such as Heathrow to Mexico City or Gatwick to Havana.

Now the US is demanding passengers' full names, dates of birth and gender from airlines, at least 72 hour before departure from the UK to Canada. The initial requirement is for flights to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and the Nova Scotia capital, Halifax - 150 miles from the nearest US territory. A similar stipulation is expected soon for the main airports in western Canada, Vancouver and Calgary.

Any passenger who refuses to comply will be denied boarding. Those who do supply details may find their trip could be abruptly cancelled by the Department of Homeland Security, which says it will "ake boarding pass determinations up until the time a flight leaves the gate ... If a passenger successfully obtains a boarding pass, his/her name is not on the No Fly list." In other words, travellers cannot find out whether they will be accepted on board until they reach the airport.


So, Canada, Carribeans and Mexico cooperate with them in that?
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Apr 3, 2012 2:58 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Carl96190
Carl96190Carl96190Gold Coast, Queensland Australia5 Threads 857 Posts
Outrageous!
This cannot possibly be legal. It needs to be challenged.
The arrogance of the American Government to think that it can dictate what happens outside its territory is breathtaking.
I know people who are on the so-called no fly list. They are not terrorists. They are not criminals. They have unfashionable opions, which in the view of the US Government makes them Orwellian thought criminals.
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Apr 3, 2012 3:06 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
vinny1967
vinny1967vinny1967Dublin, Cork Ireland131 Threads 7 Polls 11,475 Posts
Is this for real Boban ?

Just wondering how this is legal ? or whether its legal ?
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Apr 3, 2012 3:11 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
vinny1967: Is this for real Boban ?

Just wondering how this is legal ? or whether its legal ?


The question is, is there any international law that regulates such things? And who can impose it? I believe, US can do it only if the flight destiny countries agree.
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Apr 3, 2012 3:15 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
vinny1967
vinny1967vinny1967Dublin, Cork Ireland131 Threads 7 Polls 11,475 Posts
joyaepace: The question is, is there any international law that regulates such things? And who can impose it? I believe, US can do it only if the flight destiny countries agree.


Better question yes laugh

Would it be the countries or the airlines or both ?
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Apr 3, 2012 3:16 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
vinny1967
vinny1967vinny1967Dublin, Cork Ireland131 Threads 7 Polls 11,475 Posts
vinny1967: Better question yes

Would it be the countries or the airlines or both ?


I could not see Cuba agreeing to it ?
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Apr 3, 2012 3:36 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
Boban1
Boban1Boban1bigplace, Central Serbia Serbia144 Threads 5 Polls 18,789 Posts
Sorry folks Im trying to watch football ,read the news and post on CS, all at the same time...laugh

I still don`t know if all this is a windup ,is it legal ,I mean it probably can be declared as legal at some point ...dunno

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Apr 3, 2012 3:49 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
joyaepace
joyaepacejoyaepaceGalway, Ireland11 Threads 2 Polls 958 Posts
vinny1967: Better question yes

Would it be the countries or the airlines or both ?


Airlines could send them to f*** off may be. But what if they are refused landing? Although it does not seem plausible.
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Apr 3, 2012 6:30 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
venusenvy
venusenvyvenusenvyCalgary, Alberta Canada27 Threads 20,003 Posts
If this is true, I think the time has come to start restricting American travel wine
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Apr 3, 2012 6:41 PM CST Planning a trip to Canada or the Caribbean? US Immigration may have other ideas...
artistic7
artistic7artistic7edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland UK280 Posts
venusenvy: If this is true, I think the time has come to start restricting American travel
AGREED send those YANKS homelaugh
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