The Death Penalty (33)
Tomcats2Norwich, Norfolk, England UK81 Threads 9 Polls 2,249 PostsSince the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
I just know this has been debated so many times. Some say mistakes can be made etc, less likely these days with advancement of forensics. Me personnely as a human being could not condem someone else to die. I would however like to see prisons run different. Maybe like huge factories 12 hr shifts, these very bad people would be too tired to watch telly etc. They could earn a wage were board and logings was deducted and any money left to look after their own familes outside. This would keep them in a work state of mind as our do gooders say we have to rehabilitate prisoners.
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
I don't think murder is morally defensible.
Hi Redex 
I can see where you are coming from BUT My view is that since abolition of the DP there is no real deterrent left.
The judiciary have gone wrong on our behalf IMO despite all the improvements in Foensics etc since, by constantly handing out far too lenient sentences on those caught red handed for Murder, Weapons offences, GBH and Knife crimes. All of which disregards Justice and diserespects the feeling of loved ones, families and all others affected.
IMO Life sentences should mean life and for proven murder like that administered to those two Women PC's in Manchester I say being an ex serviceman as the scum who commted the crime of murder removed the victims human right to life they forfeitted all theirs. -
I would happily volunteer to administer the lethal injection or better still the bullet to the head with a Bullet proof Bucket over it and the criminal, or in our case the *infiltrator* strapped down flat, as we were taught, which is instant and less messy than in the open.
If the Crims and Drug dealers etc knew that would happen when caught, Violent crime would be reduced overnight.
BUT our gutless politicians are stll listening too much to the Human rights law puss heads, Politically correct wooly hats and Bible punhing God Floggers and Do gooders. - To keep that kind of scum in jail for life costs the taxpayer far more than the Jab and Bullet. Nothing since I saw someone I knew killed by someone who deliberately drove a Transit Van at him with intent to kill in the 90's will ever change my views.
I can see where you are coming from BUT My view is that since abolition of the DP there is no real deterrent left.
The judiciary have gone wrong on our behalf IMO despite all the improvements in Foensics etc since, by constantly handing out far too lenient sentences on those caught red handed for Murder, Weapons offences, GBH and Knife crimes. All of which disregards Justice and diserespects the feeling of loved ones, families and all others affected.
IMO Life sentences should mean life and for proven murder like that administered to those two Women PC's in Manchester I say being an ex serviceman as the scum who commted the crime of murder removed the victims human right to life they forfeitted all theirs. -
I would happily volunteer to administer the lethal injection or better still the bullet to the head with a Bullet proof Bucket over it and the criminal, or in our case the *infiltrator* strapped down flat, as we were taught, which is instant and less messy than in the open.
If the Crims and Drug dealers etc knew that would happen when caught, Violent crime would be reduced overnight.
BUT our gutless politicians are stll listening too much to the Human rights law puss heads, Politically correct wooly hats and Bible punhing God Floggers and Do gooders. - To keep that kind of scum in jail for life costs the taxpayer far more than the Jab and Bullet. Nothing since I saw someone I knew killed by someone who deliberately drove a Transit Van at him with intent to kill in the 90's will ever change my views.
Derek Bentley
James Hanratty
Ruth Ellis
Timothy Evans
Four executions which haunt the English Justice system to this day. There is no certainty and if you read Albert Pierrepoint's autobiography, even he turned against the death penalty on the grounds it was more to do with revenge than justice.
Executioners themselves suffered extreme emotional traumas later in life and were prone to alcoholism, drug addiction (narcotics being legal till the late 19th century), depression and suicide.
Statistically it is no deterent either.
James Hanratty
Ruth Ellis
Timothy Evans
Four executions which haunt the English Justice system to this day. There is no certainty and if you read Albert Pierrepoint's autobiography, even he turned against the death penalty on the grounds it was more to do with revenge than justice.
Executioners themselves suffered extreme emotional traumas later in life and were prone to alcoholism, drug addiction (narcotics being legal till the late 19th century), depression and suicide.
Statistically it is no deterent either.
wow now this brings loads of things to the fore, I just see abroad were wowmen get stoned to death on a hint and a whisper. some countries for theft lop of hands, some countries who think there judicial is not on the right track take the law into their own hands. Anarchy is the slippery slope.
I think I would rather march and wave a banner to government to make LIFE mean LIFE Harder prisons sentences as I agree at the moment it is a joke. But death penelty is a slippery slope. I agree once a murder has been done that person has lost his rights but at the moment prisoners can sue the state for not having a telly or soap or the such like that is a joke now. Our laws as they stand need tightening and kept to the letter.
WHO WILL MARCH WITH ME
I think I would rather march and wave a banner to government to make LIFE mean LIFE Harder prisons sentences as I agree at the moment it is a joke. But death penelty is a slippery slope. I agree once a murder has been done that person has lost his rights but at the moment prisoners can sue the state for not having a telly or soap or the such like that is a joke now. Our laws as they stand need tightening and kept to the letter.
WHO WILL MARCH WITH ME
Well said Redex!!
Me Me I would but I would want more than
just the one banner .
The Gov are wossies and no guts, the prisons
are a joke, telly, gym, cash for working, eh!!
Its suppose to be prison not a holiday camp.
Sod that for a game of soldiers let me take
charge of one of them for a week they would
see then, no tellies, no newspapers delivered
if you do not mind, oh yes!!
Prison now is a relief to those who do not want
to pay for living expenses they go inside get
all comfort and all for free, and get paid for
it too! Cool news. No elec bills, no water bills,
laundry for free.
Complain about the food they get for free, its not
this and not Halal! well f--k me pink with a white
wash brush.
Why keep them in this luxury at a cost to the normal
Joe who is trying to earn a living and paying for
these gits to laugh at them. No No No.
All wronggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
Justlooking
To your comments
I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.
To your comments
I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
Yes it should return because some people are pure evil and no matter how much time they spend in prison there motives will never change!
If you are a suicide bomber and you want to kill yourself then why would you be given the chance to live in a civilised society? As far as I'm concerned those types have no rights at all and when they break the rules of a civilised society and put others life's at risk then there contribution to society is zero!Bring it back and see the crime rate fall drastically!
Murder by self defence is of course different along with accidental murder but what should be punished is cold blooded murder and nobody can argue that those evil types deserve any chance what so ever because they are intent on doing harm to innocent people to full fill there destiny's, so they do not value life in any way and the governments make me sick to the stomach that they let these evil types live because they really have no goodness in there hearts or there souls to give! Now human rights are good but only for those who have the values and beliefs of living in a civilised society! Bring back the death penalty it is the only way to stop the evil in this world
HOUSTON4: Murder by self defence is of course different along with accidental murder but what should be punished is cold blooded murder and nobody can argue that ----- Now human rights are good but only for those who have the values and beliefs of living in a civilised society! Bring back the death penalty it is the only way to stop the evil in this world
Well said Bach an Cymry am Byth - Lifelong Welsh Rugby Supporter ere Too'avin grown up in Kent with people fom the Vaaleys oo R still firm mates N they think so Too :-)
Sailfree1: Justlooking
To your comments
I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.
To your comments
I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.
Hi Mama egg-wkisk jockey
So Q - Iz yo sayin yo iz Red 2 (Wing man)to Red 1 innit
I'm not convinced....
1. Errors have been made (the John Christie/Timothy Evans case is just ONE example)
2. There is the death penalty in, e.g. some states of the US, and it doesn't seem much of a deterrent
3. To take a life (say) to be punishable by taking a life because under the guise of "the law" is okay?
4. The death penalty can be considered the easy option for the criminal, they should pay their penance as in basic, restricted living conditions, and do their time even for life if that is what is deemed appropriate, and be seen to pay their debt to society and the victim(s).
1. Errors have been made (the John Christie/Timothy Evans case is just ONE example)
2. There is the death penalty in, e.g. some states of the US, and it doesn't seem much of a deterrent
3. To take a life (say) to be punishable by taking a life because under the guise of "the law" is okay?
4. The death penalty can be considered the easy option for the criminal, they should pay their penance as in basic, restricted living conditions, and do their time even for life if that is what is deemed appropriate, and be seen to pay their debt to society and the victim(s).
thanks for all your replies to the thread i personally dont think it is right to bring back the death penalty people were arguing at work weather iytc could be justified . An american colleageu said that Capital punishment is just that those with the capital dont get the death penalty. Look at c derek bentley hanged and he never killed anyione and had a mental ag e of 12. Miscarriages of justice happen so innocent peole have died Jill dnados killer would have hung even though it wa later proved innocenct.
so no to the death penalty ... then again i wonder how i would feel if onof my sons was killed mmmmmmmmmmm?
so no to the death penalty ... then again i wonder how i would feel if onof my sons was killed mmmmmmmmmmm?
In response to: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
Bring it back..
Tomcats2: thanks for all your replies to the thread i personally dont think it is right to bring back the death penalty people were arguing at work weather iytc could be justified . An american colleageu said that Capital punishment is just that those with the capital dont get the death penalty. Look at c derek bentley hanged and he never killed anyione and had a mental ag e of 12. Miscarriages of justice happen so innocent peole have died Jill dnados killer would have hung even though it wa later proved innocenct.
so no to the death penalty ... then again i wonder how i would feel if onof my sons was killed mmmmmmmmmmm?
so no to the death penalty ... then again i wonder how i would feel if onof my sons was killed mmmmmmmmmmm?
I think you may find that with the grief and horror, the immediate thought is that someone must pay, someone is to blame, and someone is guilty. It is only with time that reasoning and rationale kicks in and the focus is then on the actual perpertrator paying the price. That is why innocent people have been wrongly condemned to death.
For a good example of reactions of what people believe is the right result, see The Green Mile. But a brilliant take on the flaws involved in capital punishment is The Life of David Gale.....
The last person hanged here was Ruth Ellis and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that there were mitigating circumstances and that her trial was unfair. USA have just released someone who sweated out fifteen yrs on death after dna evidence proved him innocent. All the numbers show that the death penalty is not a deterrent ( Murder rate decreased substantially here in UK after the penalty was abolished)so what is the point of killing someone else. True that if someone dear to me was murdered I would want there blood but beyond a personal involvement I would rather live in civillised country where we don't hang, electrocute, poison or stone anyone to death for any reason. More than that I would rather risk a guilty person going unpunished than an innocent being wrongly prosecuted just to satisfy some kind of mob need for retribution.
fiftyshades: Why do you assume that 'more austere'prisons act a as a greater deterrent when all past history and evidence demonstrates that it doesn't. I have worked in UK prisons with lifers and believe me it is not a pleasant or cushy environment to exist in. I have just retired from a teaching in He and it costs several hundred percent more to educate than it does to incarcerate which is why prison education is so poor.
As for starving pensioners in the uk ..you are joking..where are they?
Bankrupt ..again so wrong the UK is nowhere near bankrupt and any relativley small short falls in the deficit(not debt) could easily be corrected when the multinationals are forced to adhere to a tighter tax regime. There is no necessity to close any 'special schools' that is asimply a government policy choice.
As for starving pensioners in the uk ..you are joking..where are they?
Bankrupt ..again so wrong the UK is nowhere near bankrupt and any relativley small short falls in the deficit(not debt) could easily be corrected when the multinationals are forced to adhere to a tighter tax regime. There is no necessity to close any 'special schools' that is asimply a government policy choice.
Many households are choosing between food or heat this Winter. Pensioners are the most vulnerable. Thousands of them died last Winter.
My annual tuition fee if I went to uni right now would be £9,000, the annual cost of keeping an inmate is £40,000.
Education in prisons is poor? They will teach you a trade in prison, for free, which is something not offered to the rest of the population, which impacts mostly upon the poor because they can't afford their own education. Well done, you've made crime pay for the most desperate.
The national debt just passed one trillion. Corporate debt quadruples this figure. Household debt is monstrous. Mortgage rates dwarf the average income. And we have little to no means of production to balance the economy or the debt. We are thoroughly bankrupt and living way beyond our means.
Your complete lack of understanding of the reality that we are in - I'm not at all suprised that you've inhabited the fantasyland of academia - makes me sceptical of any so-called evidence you have for harsher prisons not acting as any kind of deterrent, especially when such evidence overturns the fundamental understandings of crime & punishment.
As ever when you have no sound facts you resort to emotive language to try and justify you ill qualified opinion. Tuition fees are only what students pay. They receive a loan for this at extrememly low interest rates and if they fail to earn a substantial annual salary they do not have to pay it back. Scottish students pay no fees. The actual cost of providing a graduate education is about £260000, about 6 times higher than jailing someone. In some subjects, such as medicine it is considerably higher than that. As for academic fantasy land the reserach team which I led generated 16 patents which will continue to provide an income for the instituion I worked for (and some for me) for several years to come as a number of industries are using them under licence. They will not teach you a trade in prison t..that is a luxury available only in a few prisons and even then to a minimal standard. people choose to take on mortgages and the interest rates are extremely low at present. When I purchased my first home in the late 70's the rate was 13%
Corporate debt is normal..its how corporations invest in their own future.
The definition of bankruptcy is the proven inability to meet debt. I repeat we are nowhere near that point and highly unlikely to ever be anywhere near it.
You are critical of academia which generates huge amounts of overseas income for this country through education and then you claim to the right of the poor to an education. Do Make your mind up.
Corporate debt is normal..its how corporations invest in their own future.
The definition of bankruptcy is the proven inability to meet debt. I repeat we are nowhere near that point and highly unlikely to ever be anywhere near it.
You are critical of academia which generates huge amounts of overseas income for this country through education and then you claim to the right of the poor to an education. Do Make your mind up.
fiftyshades: As ever when you have no sound facts you resort to emotive language to try and justify you ill qualified opinion. Tuition fees are only what students pay. They receive a loan for this at extrememly low interest rates and if they fail to earn a substantial annual salary they do not have to pay it back. Scottish students pay no fees. The actual cost of providing a graduate education is about £260000, about 6 times higher than jailing someone. In some subjects, such as medicine it is considerably higher than that. As for academic fantasy land the reserach team which I led generated 16 patents which will continue to provide an income for the instituion I worked for (and some for me) for several years to come as a number of industries are using them under licence. They will not teach you a trade in prison t..that is a luxury available only in a few prisons and even then to a minimal standard. people choose to take on mortgages and the interest rates are extremely low at present. When I purchased my first home in the late 70's the rate was 13%
Corporate debt is normal..its how corporations invest in their own future.
The definition of bankruptcy is the proven inability to meet debt. I repeat we are nowhere near that point and highly unlikely to ever be anywhere near it.
You are critical of academia which generates huge amounts of overseas income for this country through education and then you claim to the right of the poor to an education. Do Make your mind up.
Corporate debt is normal..its how corporations invest in their own future.
The definition of bankruptcy is the proven inability to meet debt. I repeat we are nowhere near that point and highly unlikely to ever be anywhere near it.
You are critical of academia which generates huge amounts of overseas income for this country through education and then you claim to the right of the poor to an education. Do Make your mind up.
It cost the US taxpayer pays roughly £16000 a year to keep an inmate for a year - why is ours £40,000? The difference here alone could pay every student's tuition fees.
If the true cost of the degree is truly £260,000 then does this mean that the British taxpayer is subsidising each foreign student to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds?
And I'm glad not every single prisoner gets access to this education for free. They shouldn't get any privilege whatsoever above the law-abiding citizen, quite the contrary.
British corporate debt is not 'normal', nowhere else in the world is there a comparison to this debt. Any debt, private or public, that doesn't add material value is undesirable, any debt that sustains a bubble is undesirable.
By mortgage rates I was referring to inflated property prices arising amongst a panoply of other means designed to act as false securities in order to sustain a debt-driven consumer bubble.
And yes, academia has done of fine job of exporting skills and knowledge to our competitors across the globe, whom have subsequently turned these skills to their advantage in order to outstrip, outpace and outcompete our economy thus condemning it to death. Yes this has earned us a few quid in the meantime. Brilliant.
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