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The Death Penalty (44)

Oct 16, 2012 3:54 PM CST The Death Penalty
Tomcats2
Tomcats2Tomcats2Norwich, Norfolk, England UK99 Threads 10 Polls 2,974 Posts
Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?
Oct 16, 2012 4:21 PM CST The Death Penalty
Redex
RedexRedexNorthumberland, England UK37 Threads 1,711 Posts
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?


I just know this has been debated so many times. Some say mistakes can be made etc, less likely these days with advancement of forensics. Me personnely as a human being could not condem someone else to die. I would however like to see prisons run different. Maybe like huge factories 12 hr shifts, these very bad people would be too tired to watch telly etc. They could earn a wage were board and logings was deducted and any money left to look after their own familes outside. This would keep them in a work state of mind as our do gooders say we have to rehabilitate prisoners.
Oct 16, 2012 4:46 PM CST The Death Penalty
jac379
jac379jac379pontyclun, South Glamorgan, Wales UK33 Threads 4 Polls 21,234 Posts
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?

I don't think murder is morally defensible.
Oct 16, 2012 6:02 PM CST The Death Penalty
justlooking37
justlooking37justlooking37Thanet, Kent, England UK3 Threads 121 Posts
Hi Redex wave
I can see where you are coming from BUT My view is that since abolition of the DP there is no real deterrent left.

The judiciary have gone wrong on our behalf IMO despite all the improvements in Foensics etc since, by constantly handing out far too lenient sentences on those caught red handed for Murder, Weapons offences, GBH and Knife crimes. All of which disregards Justice and diserespects the feeling of loved ones, families and all others affected.

IMO Life sentences should mean life and for proven murder like that administered to those two Women PC's in Manchester I say being an ex serviceman as the scum who commted the crime of murder removed the victims human right to life they forfeitted all theirs. -

I would happily volunteer to administer the lethal injection or better still the bullet to the head with a Bullet proof Bucket over it and the criminal, or in our case the *infiltrator* strapped down flat, as we were taught, which is instant and less messy than in the open.

If the Crims and Drug dealers etc knew that would happen when caught, Violent crime would be reduced overnight.
BUT our gutless politicians are stll listening too much to the Human rights law puss heads, Politically correct wooly hats and Bible punhing God Floggers and Do gooders. - To keep that kind of scum in jail for life costs the taxpayer far more than the Jab and Bullet. Nothing since I saw someone I knew killed by someone who deliberately drove a Transit Van at him with intent to kill in the 90's will ever change my views.
Oct 16, 2012 6:25 PM CST The Death Penalty
Godsgift
GodsgiftGodsgiftEnnis, Clare Ireland326 Threads 16 Polls 15,022 Posts
Derek Bentley

James Hanratty

Ruth Ellis

Timothy Evans

Four executions which haunt the English Justice system to this day. There is no certainty and if you read Albert Pierrepoint's autobiography, even he turned against the death penalty on the grounds it was more to do with revenge than justice.

Executioners themselves suffered extreme emotional traumas later in life and were prone to alcoholism, drug addiction (narcotics being legal till the late 19th century), depression and suicide.

Statistically it is no deterent either.
Oct 17, 2012 3:11 AM CST The Death Penalty
Sailfree1
Sailfree1Sailfree1Vilters-Wangs, St Gallen Switzerland16 Threads 744 Posts
wave TC

After reading the comments thus far.
There is for and against I see.
In the Middle East murder is punished by hanging
and there is no long drawn out trials its the rope
and it is executed swiftly.
There is no deterrent in the UK not to commit crime
they go to a nice new prison with all mod cons nice!!!
Bet they never saw the movie Midnight Express that
would deter them if the prisons were like that one.
Oh sorry forgot Human Rights! the victims had no
Human Rights!!
Why to suffer these criminals gladly with their Human
Rights?
Clamp down on crime, all immigrants offending just send
them packing the following day none of this appeals, get
rid immediately, and their entourage!
The mossies are the chief offenders at the moment in the
UK no respect or regard for any one of us. Get rid I will
even help with the costs as I am sure so many would.
Free up the housing for those who need it, save on the
Dole payouts, they never worked and still collect your
hard earned cash weekly plus housing benefits etc.,
Shouting from the rooftops RACISM!! bullshit!!
No politician has the balls or the backbone to shout out
in the Commons, very few if any Judges have the balls to
deport!
The UK is sadly a dying country! Soon to be overun by the
mossies and the filth that they bring.
That is my two pence worth and my opinion.
wave
Oct 17, 2012 3:37 AM CST The Death Penalty
justlooking37
justlooking37justlooking37Thanet, Kent, England UK3 Threads 121 Posts
Hi M'lady
Well put in general - but, as with the two shot WPC's in Manchester recently it is not just Mossies, but plenty of white trash like Cregan and scum with KNOWN criminal records who have been ALLOWED by successive governments here to come here from Europe AND STAY.
We have enough of them in East Kent who are allowed to run Prostitute and Drug rackets, go thieving armed up, mugging and commit burglary and sponge of our benefits system. That needs to stop.

They remove all their victims human rights and to add insult to injury the Government have continually bowed to Brussels and Human rights law crap etc and made our Police powerless.- Like I said I would be happy to stick a bullet in their heads as its the cheapest method of scum removal.

We need to say Bollocks to Brussels, get out of Europe, save the £50 Million a DAY use it for OUR needs and get tough again. If you were to speak to the people in the street and especially those of my generation you would find well over 60% who say we are now at WAR with the EU economically and other nations who got out have survived and so would we.
Oct 17, 2012 3:44 AM CST The Death Penalty
Redex
RedexRedexNorthumberland, England UK37 Threads 1,711 Posts
wow now this brings loads of things to the fore, I just see abroad were wowmen get stoned to death on a hint and a whisper. some countries for theft lop of hands, some countries who think there judicial is not on the right track take the law into their own hands. Anarchy is the slippery slope.
I think I would rather march and wave a banner to government to make LIFE mean LIFE Harder prisons sentences as I agree at the moment it is a joke. But death penelty is a slippery slope. I agree once a murder has been done that person has lost his rights but at the moment prisoners can sue the state for not having a telly or soap or the such like that is a joke now. Our laws as they stand need tightening and kept to the letter.
WHO WILL MARCH WITH MEuk uk uk
Oct 17, 2012 3:50 AM CST The Death Penalty
Sailfree1
Sailfree1Sailfree1Vilters-Wangs, St Gallen Switzerland16 Threads 744 Posts
Good morning Sir,

Now then, this EU and Brussels is not what it seems.
Not all countries in the EU follow the suggestions which is all they are. The EU directives are not law and not bound. It is the Gov of the country that decided to put them into practice or not. In the UK oh the EU said so and we must do it, bullshit. Its only a suggestion and they do not have to take it on board. Many countries do not take on board and implement the EU suggestions and directives.
So why is the UK so quick to do what the EU says? back again to the Gov and how the country is run. Aholes and Bullshit is all they dish out needing the EU to follow as they have no backbone to stand up and made decisions. The Gov is in fact doing all the EU says because they do not know how to run a country so they are like sheep follow the leader.
Germany do not implement the suggestions by the EU, thankfully we are now in Switzerland and not an EU country so they have nothing to do with the nonsense of it all.
The UK needs to gather some backbone and stand up to their responsibilites and do the people proud who elected them. Do they do that now? NO. Conservatives and Labour and any other you elect in the UK will be same grovelling to the EU saying yes to the USA and bowing to the immigrants and their lot. No bottle No guts, No backbone, and no brain.
Again that is my two pence worth. Oh now I better put the soap box away.
wave doh very mad frustrated
Oct 17, 2012 3:58 AM CST The Death Penalty
Sailfree1
Sailfree1Sailfree1Vilters-Wangs, St Gallen Switzerland16 Threads 744 Posts
wave thumbs up

Well said Redex!!

Me Me I would but I would want more than
just the one banner .
The Gov are wossies and no guts, the prisons
are a joke, telly, gym, cash for working, eh!!
Its suppose to be prison not a holiday camp.
Sod that for a game of soldiers let me take
charge of one of them for a week they would
see then, no tellies, no newspapers delivered
if you do not mind, oh yes!!
Prison now is a relief to those who do not want
to pay for living expenses they go inside get
all comfort and all for free, and get paid for
it too! Cool news. No elec bills, no water bills,
laundry for free.
Complain about the food they get for free, its not
this and not Halal! well f--k me pink with a white
wash brush.
Why keep them in this luxury at a cost to the normal
Joe who is trying to earn a living and paying for
these gits to laugh at them. No No No.
All wronggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
Oct 17, 2012 4:36 AM CST The Death Penalty
justlooking37
justlooking37justlooking37Thanet, Kent, England UK3 Threads 121 Posts
Hello Ma'am SF
Wow -I IMPLIED more or less exactly what you havethumbs up

Our succssive Government's (plural) are a bloody joke and have been elected by the gullible who fall for their dogma and propaganda at election time. - I have been saying for years that it is both Tories and Liebore politicians elected each time by less than 50% of the electorate who since 1974 have never had the guts to say Bollocks to Europe's rules as made by UNELECTED a**hole and do OUR OWN THING.
IMO - It is time WE meaning the people got hard again and I will go so far as to say sicne Sham-moron decided to welch on our promised referendum - By any method it takes !!
Oct 17, 2012 6:55 AM CST The Death Penalty
Sailfree1
Sailfree1Sailfree1Vilters-Wangs, St Gallen Switzerland16 Threads 744 Posts
Justlooking wave
To your comments thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up thumbs up

I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.
conversing cheers
Oct 17, 2012 7:10 AM CST The Death Penalty
HOUSTON4
HOUSTON4HOUSTON4Lampeter, Dyfed, Wales UK15 Threads 726 Posts
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?


Yes it should return because some people are pure evil and no matter how much time they spend in prison there motives will never change!
If you are a suicide bomber and you want to kill yourself then why would you be given the chance to live in a civilised society? As far as I'm concerned those types have no rights at all and when they break the rules of a civilised society and put others life's at risk then there contribution to society is zero!Bring it back and see the crime rate fall drastically!
Oct 17, 2012 7:20 AM CST The Death Penalty
HOUSTON4
HOUSTON4HOUSTON4Lampeter, Dyfed, Wales UK15 Threads 726 Posts
Murder by self defence is of course different along with accidental murder but what should be punished is cold blooded murder and nobody can argue that those evil types deserve any chance what so ever because they are intent on doing harm to innocent people to full fill there destiny's, so they do not value life in any way and the governments make me sick to the stomach that they let these evil types live because they really have no goodness in there hearts or there souls to give! Now human rights are good but only for those who have the values and beliefs of living in a civilised society! Bring back the death penalty it is the only way to stop the evil in this worldthumbs up
Oct 17, 2012 7:31 AM CST The Death Penalty
justlooking37
justlooking37justlooking37Thanet, Kent, England UK3 Threads 121 Posts
HOUSTON4: Murder by self defence is of course different along with accidental murder but what should be punished is cold blooded murder and nobody can argue that ----- Now human rights are good but only for those who have the values and beliefs of living in a civilised society! Bring back the death penalty it is the only way to stop the evil in this world


wave
Well said Bach an Cymry am Byth - Lifelong Welsh Rugby Supporter ere Too'avin grown up in Kent with people fom the Vaaleys oo R still firm mates N they think so Too :-) laugh
handshake cheers uk
Oct 17, 2012 7:36 AM CST The Death Penalty
justlooking37
justlooking37justlooking37Thanet, Kent, England UK3 Threads 121 Posts
Sailfree1: Justlooking
To your comments

I am posting a thread have a look and see if you have any
ideas of how things should be.
I have and Red Leader defo has.
It might be interesting to see what transpired.


Hi Mama egg-wkisk jockey wave
So Q - Iz yo sayin yo iz Red 2 (Wing man)to Red 1 innit
laugh rolling on the floor laughing uk
Oct 17, 2012 3:15 PM CST The Death Penalty
xxDandelionxx
xxDandelionxxxxDandelionxxunknown, Hampshire, England UK8 Threads 3,425 Posts
I'm not convinced....

1. Errors have been made (the John Christie/Timothy Evans case is just ONE example)
2. There is the death penalty in, e.g. some states of the US, and it doesn't seem much of a deterrent
3. To take a life (say) to be punishable by taking a life because under the guise of "the law" is okay?
4. The death penalty can be considered the easy option for the criminal, they should pay their penance as in basic, restricted living conditions, and do their time even for life if that is what is deemed appropriate, and be seen to pay their debt to society and the victim(s).
Oct 17, 2012 6:06 PM CST The Death Penalty
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA6,268 Posts
Tomcats2: Since the death penalty was abolished people have been calling for it to come back what is your view? what crimes should the death penalty be use for? if you disagree why?



Annie McSween’s burned clothes and purse were found in the back yard of the Mentor-on-the-Lake house, where Joseph Thomas was living at the time.

In addition, Thomas was at Mario’s Lakeway Lounge complaining that his girlfriend had just dumped him the night McSween was murdered, Assistant County Prosecutor Charles Cichocki said Tuesday during his opening argument.

“Her face was severely beaten,” Cichocki said. “She was choked. She was raped. Her neck was slashed. She was stabbed five times in the back.”

The prosecutor added that it appears McSween briefly escaped her attacker and tried to get inside a neighboring home.

The next day, the bar’s owner asked the resident why there was blood on the home’s windows and front door. When she said she didn’t know, he called police.

Officers found drag marks across the driveway and a pair of underwear and a shoe outside.

McSween’s body was found in a wooded area — naked except for a pair of socks, Cichocki said.




Joseph Thomas walked inside Mario’s Lakeway Lounge with a knife and was rejected by Annie McSween the night she was killed, a bar patron testified Wednesday.

Willoughby resident Matt “Baby Matt” Miller said he was at the Mentor-on-the-Lake bar Thanksgiving night in 2010 when he began socializing with Thomas.

He was upset … and apparently drunk.”

The next morning, Miller said he went back to the bar after learning McSween had been murdered by an unknown assailant.

He then went to the police station and told them about Thomas, whom he described as having a “messed-up tooth.”

Under cross-examination, defense attorney David Doughten argued that Miller could not have been certain that the clip he saw contained a knife.

“It was a knife, for sure,” said Miller.

McSween was raped and killed after closing up the bar alone on her 49th birthday.


Another friend of McSween’s, co-worker Margaret March, testified that she had been watching TV with her husband around 4:30 a.m. on Black Friday 2010 when she thought someone was breaking into her home.

“I slammed the door and locked it,” said March, now of Georgia. “I didn’t know who was trying to get in. We thought someone had been breaking in a few nights prior.”

continued......
Oct 17, 2012 6:08 PM CST The Death Penalty
purr4mance
purr4mancepurr4manceCleveland, Ohio USA6,268 Posts
March’s husband got a knife and went outside to see what was going on. He came back in and said everything was fine, so she went to bed, she said.

“I was still a little drunk, a little fuzzy, half drunk, half hung over,” March testified. “I woke up about 8 with Mario (Caicaic, the bar owner) telling me there was blood all over my house and all four of my tires were slashed. I thought maybe it was a deer.”

March would later learn the person trying to break into her home was McSween, whom had once lived with her.



Joseph Thomas shouted his innocence after being convicted of raping and murdering Mentor resident Annie McSween.

“I passed a polygraph! I didn’t do this (expletive) I didn’t do this (expletive)!” he said as deputies whisked him away in an elevator in handcuffs.

Thomas, 28, was found guilty Friday in Lake County Common Pleas Court on all 10 counts — three counts of aggravated murder, three counts of kidnapping, two counts of aggravated robbery, rape and tampering with evidence.



Joseph Thomas still refused to take responsibility for killing Annie McSween, even after he was sentenced Monday to die by lethal injection.

Thomas, 28, of Perry Township, was convicted Sept. 28 in the death of McSween, a 49-year-old Mentor resident.

A Lake County Common Pleas Court jury recommended Thomas get death for the killing, which occurred on Black Friday 2010.

Judge Richard L. Collins Jr. chose to adopt the jury’s findings rather than downgrade the sentence to life in prison.

“We cannot be happier with the outcome,” the victim’s son, Painesville Township resident Justin McSween, said after the sentencing.

Justin called Thomas "soulless" for failing to make any type of statement or to even look at the victim’s friends and family members, who spoke directly to him.

“You are a monster,” said family friend Valerie Cortelli.

Cortelli added that Thomas is responsible for the victim’s daughter, Erica, dying of an accidental drug overdose two months after her mother was murdered.



I no longer support the death penalty. I’d rather see them wake up everyday and see bars remind them of why they are where they are. But, if the death penalty is legal, as it is here locally, many would say this animal is the poster child for said punishment.
Oct 18, 2012 12:21 PM CST The Death Penalty
Tomcats2
Tomcats2Tomcats2Norwich, Norfolk, England UK99 Threads 10 Polls 2,974 Posts
thanks for all your replies to the thread i personally dont think it is right to bring back the death penalty people were arguing at work weather iytc could be justified . An american colleageu said that Capital punishment is just that those with the capital dont get the death penalty. Look at c derek bentley hanged and he never killed anyione and had a mental ag e of 12. Miscarriages of justice happen so innocent peole have died Jill dnados killer would have hung even though it wa later proved innocenct.

so no to the death penalty ... then again i wonder how i would feel if onof my sons was killed mmmmmmmmmmm?
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