An independent Scotland. ( Archived) (26)

Apr 24, 2013 11:45 PM CST An independent Scotland.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
British finance minister George Osborne warned Tuesday that an independent Scotland would sacrifice control over much of its economy if it stayed in a currency zone using the pound.
Launching a Treasury paper on currency options ahead of a September 2014 referendum, Osborne said there was also no guarantee the rest of the United Kingdom would accept such an arrangement.
Osborne told an audience in Glasgow that Scotland could otherwise end up like Panama and Montenegro, which use the US dollar and the euro respectively but with no control over policy.
The pro-independence Scottish government has said a currency union is its preferred option.
"If it ain't broke, don't break it," Osborne said to muted applause as he insisted that the more than 300-year-old union with England was best for the economy of both nations.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer said an independent Scotland would have four options: currency union, unilaterally keeping the pound and pegging it to sterling, creating a Scottish currency or joining the euro.
But all were a "very deep dive into uncharted waters," he said.
A currency zone between two separate countries would be "extremely hard to sustain" without close political and economic union, Osborne said, pointing to the example of the euro.
"An independent Scotland would have to agree its tax and spending plans with what would be a foreign government," he said.
The British minister also said the rest of the United Kingdom -- England, Wales and Northern Ireland -- was unlikely to want to give an independent Scotland a say in the way that London runs the economy.
"Why would 58 million citizens give away some of their sovereignty to five million people in another state?" he said.
Unilaterally keeping the pound, the other main option, would leave Scotland with "no control over its own monetary policy" as all decisions on sterling would be taken by the Treasury in London, Osborne said.
He cited other small nations such as Montenegro, which uses the euro single currency despite not being part of the European Union, and Panama, which uses the US dollar, but said "this option would not be appropriate for a country of Scotland's economic size and complexity."
"All of these alternative currency arrangements are less suitable economically than we have now for both Scotland and the rest of the UK," Osborne concluded.
A referendum is set for September 18, 2014, when Scottish voters will be asked the yes/no question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"
Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond and his Scottish National Party (SNP) want to keep sterling in the event of a "yes" vote.
yahoo news.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:21 AM CST An independent Scotland.
AustralianGirlAU
AustralianGirlAUAustralianGirlAUIzmir, Aegean Turkey196 Posts
The really have to stop watching Braveheartconversing
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Apr 25, 2013 5:23 AM CST An independent Scotland.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Last time I was there it was becoming a nation of Paki shopkeepers complete with Scottish accents.grin
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Apr 25, 2013 5:30 AM CST An independent Scotland.
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
tomcatwarne: Last time I was there it was becoming a nation of Paki Asian shopkeepers complete with Scottish accents.


Just thought I'd correct that for you tom.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:32 AM CST An independent Scotland.
chris27292729
chris27292729chris27292729IOS island, South Aegean Greece93 Threads 15,811 Posts
It seems Mr Osborne blackmail the Scots to vote NO.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:35 AM CST An independent Scotland.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
bodleing: Just thought I'd correct that for you tom.


I've got broad shoulders Bod me old songrin grin grin grin grin cheers
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Apr 25, 2013 5:36 AM CST An independent Scotland.
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
tomcatwarne: I've got broad shoulders Bod me old son


grin cheers
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Apr 25, 2013 5:46 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Adalstef
AdalstefAdalstefReykjavik, Northwest Iceland94 Threads 896 Posts
If Iceland can be interdependent so could Scotland
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Apr 25, 2013 5:50 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
chris27292729: It seems Mr Osborne blackmail the Scots to vote NO.


No, the SNP wants it both ways. They want the benefits of being in a larger economy, but to have no responsibility towards it. All the privilege, but with none of the obligation is what they're after.

Alex Salmond would make an excellent Feminist Woman.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:52 AM CST An independent Scotland.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Adalstef: If Iceland can be interdependent so could Scotland



Scotland have been whining about independence forever, politicians use it as a ticket to gain popularity.
Most Englishmen couldn't give a toss, though we would probably and up bailing them out.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:52 AM CST An independent Scotland.
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1Barcelona, Catalonia Spain65 Threads 44 Polls 5,101 Posts
Here in Catalonia we have a similar debate, but we have not reached the stage of realism in which political proponents of independence begin to explain the real benefits and real disadvantages of this decision.

And I do not get to that stage, as the Spanish Government is determined to prevent any vote on the matter. Actually to claim independence is more attractive as utopian.
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Apr 25, 2013 5:58 AM CST An independent Scotland.
RDM59
RDM59RDM59Edinburgh, Lothian, Scotland UK92 Threads 5 Polls 14,070 Posts
Since when did the COINservatives ever care about the welfare of the Scottish people. What a joke. It only cares about it's oil revenue which is far from depleted BTW ! With only one conservative MP representing Scotland at Westminster ( plus proportional representation ) our feelings about each other are clearly mutual. By mid-2011, it's party membership in Scotland fell to 8,500.

I've only recently began leaning more towards independence. I'm not saying that SNP are the greatest but they might just get us the fresh start and boost that we need which will never come from London's Westminster. Once independent, SNP control is not set in stone I feel.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:04 AM CST An independent Scotland.
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
RDM59: Since when did the COINservatives ever care about the welfare of the Scottish people. What a joke. It only cares about it's oil revenue which is far from depleted BTW ! With only one conservative MP representing Scotland at Westminster ( plus proportional representation ) our feelings about each other are clearly mutual. By mid-2011, it's party membership in Scotland fell to 8,500.

I've only recently began leaning more towards independence. I'm not saying that SNP are the greatest but they might just get us the fresh start and boost that we need which will never come from London's Westminster. Once independent, SNP control is not set in stone I feel.



I wish you good luck, we shed most of our other colonies without to much of a problem.

I think you might have a problem disentangling the oil from the vast English investment. Did you read Osborne's speech?
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Apr 25, 2013 6:08 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
RDM59: SNP control is not set in stone I feel.


And that's the most important thing. Alex Salmond's popularity will nosedive anyway once it becomes apparent that his "independent" Scotland is merely a satellite state of Brussels with less autonomy than it had before.

Also, the Nationalism of the SNP has nothing to do with the views of the workers and it is the workers that make the most natural Nationalists - the PC classes will change their views whenever it's trendy to do so and this will cripple the SNP.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:21 AM CST An independent Scotland.
GalwayGuy35
GalwayGuy35GalwayGuy35galway, Galway Ireland25 Threads 1,537 Posts
There is a bit of a debate going on over here as well about Northern Ireland and whether or not to have a vote about it.

The loyal followers of King Billy are probably a bit nervous they might have to be ruled by Dublin but they need not worry, we cant afford to take it back anyway laugh

It costs the British taxpayer a lot to keep NI though.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:24 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
GalwayGuy35: There is a bit of a debate going on over here as well about Northern Ireland and whether or not to have a vote about it.

The loyal followers of King Billy are probably a bit nervous they might have to be ruled by Dublin but they need not worry, we cant afford to take it back anyway

It costs the British taxpayer a lot to keep NI though.


NI won't go independent. They have the backwardness of Southern Ireland on their doorstep as a constant reminder of why it's better to be in the UK. Even with all the history, the social and religious problems etc they will not go independent, and the Scots should take a long, hard look at this and the question: Why?
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Apr 25, 2013 6:29 AM CST An independent Scotland.
GalwayGuy35
GalwayGuy35GalwayGuy35galway, Galway Ireland25 Threads 1,537 Posts
Obstinance_Works: NI won't go independent. They have the backwardness of Southern Ireland on their doorstep as a constant reminder of why it's better to be in the UK. Even with all the history, the social and religious problems etc they will not go independent, and the Scots should take a long, hard look at this and the question: Why?


Backwardness is it?

Want to expand on that, I'd be very interested to hear your view.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:39 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
GalwayGuy35: Backwardness is it?

Want to expand on that, I'd be very interested to hear your view.


The universities are a lot worse in EIRE than the UK: that's a big sign of backwardness.

Economically behind the rest of the UK and even less of a materially productive economy. You were almost entirely an agricultural(third-world)economy until you mortgaged your children to the hilt in order to finance the Celtic Tiger.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:44 AM CST An independent Scotland.
GalwayGuy35
GalwayGuy35GalwayGuy35galway, Galway Ireland25 Threads 1,537 Posts
Obstinance_Works: The universities are a lot worse in EIRE than the UK: that's a big sign of backwardness.

Economically behind the rest of the UK and even less of a materially productive economy. You were almost entirely an agricultural(third-world)economy until you mortgaged your children to the hilt in order to finance the Celtic Tiger.


Hate to break it to ya but your own economy ain't in such great shape either, and your a bit wide of the mark with the "rest of the UK" bit, NI is part of the UK but we aint, we kicked your asses out of what is now the Republic over 90 years ago.
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Apr 25, 2013 6:45 AM CST An independent Scotland.
Delatude
DelatudeDelatudeParis, Ile-de-France France649 Posts
"A third European foreign minister has told the BBC an independent Scotland would have to apply for EU membership."


It would be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. The EU is trying to scare Scotland to stay part of the UK and the EU. This way, deeper pockets to dig in.

Some countries are finally understanding the problem of open door policies in the EU and the effect on its unemployment.
"The Swiss government is to limit immigration from all EU states from May for a period of one year, in a move criticized by Brussels."
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by tomcatwarne (289 Threads)
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