budget 2014 (48)
gcy1980: What will the future generation say of us:
1)Approval of the stranglehold banks and the extremely wealthy have over our society.
The banks should have gob#ne bang in 2008.
2)Kept voting for the like of Fianna Fail and now Fine Gael when they have led us into a greater financial mess than Haughey or Lynch ever did. 200 billion of debt....
Fianna Fail nearly wrecked the country in the late 1970's. They tried to spend their way out of recession in 1980-81 and it was a miserable failure.
3)Amazingly, even with our disastrous economic past, we will be the first generation to hand over our economy to a POORER generation...
I think 3 will do....
Paddy decided to vote FF for decades knowing fully well they were riddled with corruption.
It is a "pittance". Any level of financial acumen will lead to that conclusion. Just check the figures. Appeals to ridicule don't change that.
The OAP was 101 euros in 1997 it was massively increased to 230 euros by 2009 which was 3 times the rate of inflation in that period.
Why do you believe this?
A smaller ratio of workers to peneioners in the future, people are living longer which will have a huge impact on the state finances. Unless of course you believe younger workers should be taxed to the hilt to pay for the ultra generous benefits that pensioners enjoy. It's financially prudent to privatise the welfare state.
Argumentum e Silentio....
Any evidence of this. It is a strong assertion you are making here. The "lone payment payment...is solely responsible for the collapse of the traditional family in working class areas."
1)Approval of the stranglehold banks and the extremely wealthy have over our society.
The banks should have gob#ne bang in 2008.
2)Kept voting for the like of Fianna Fail and now Fine Gael when they have led us into a greater financial mess than Haughey or Lynch ever did. 200 billion of debt....
Fianna Fail nearly wrecked the country in the late 1970's. They tried to spend their way out of recession in 1980-81 and it was a miserable failure.
3)Amazingly, even with our disastrous economic past, we will be the first generation to hand over our economy to a POORER generation...
I think 3 will do....
Paddy decided to vote FF for decades knowing fully well they were riddled with corruption.
It is a "pittance". Any level of financial acumen will lead to that conclusion. Just check the figures. Appeals to ridicule don't change that.
The OAP was 101 euros in 1997 it was massively increased to 230 euros by 2009 which was 3 times the rate of inflation in that period.
Why do you believe this?
A smaller ratio of workers to peneioners in the future, people are living longer which will have a huge impact on the state finances. Unless of course you believe younger workers should be taxed to the hilt to pay for the ultra generous benefits that pensioners enjoy. It's financially prudent to privatise the welfare state.
Argumentum e Silentio....
Any evidence of this. It is a strong assertion you are making here. The "lone payment payment...is solely responsible for the collapse of the traditional family in working class areas."
Up until the 1970's there was an extremely low rate of marital breakdown in working class urban areas. In 1973 the Lone Parent Family payment was introduced, gradually from the 1980's onwards the percentage of children in council estates and many other poorer areas brought up in council estates has been gradually increasing. That wouldn't be the case if the Lone parent family payment had been introduced.
maxpower50: as a fully paid up member of Sinn Fein I noticed you didn't
mention your own right wing tory party Fine Gael,
mention your own right wing tory party Fine Gael,
I'm not a member of Fine Gael and have never been a member of any political party.
Typical Sinn Fein reaction with an angry emoticon at the end
gcy1980: Taxation can be made more efficient. What do you base this reduction in higher rates of taxation on? Surely not Reaganomics and "the laffer curve"...Even the most staunch right wing economists avoid this these days. it brings embarrassment to them that they advocated for it for so long. It even received a Nobel Prize. But every single bit of evidence since has proven it to be nonsense. Absolute nonsense...
Hong Kong is one of the best small economies in the developed World thanks to having a flat tax, I don't advocate a flat tax for Ireland but I believe noone should be taxed at a marginal tax rate greater than 40%. America had an economic boom thanks to cuts in taxation by Secretary Mellon and Calvin Coolidge.
I can't see the logic in this. All you are doing is reverting back to the narrow tax bands that caused so much trouble when the crisis initially hit. If you are going to change the tax system, change it. Freidman might have some ideas you'd like on this. But don't just argue for something that has already failed.
No issue with a property tax.
A property tax should have been introduced many years ago at the same time as cutting tax on Labour. It should have been set at 1% of the value of the house in the late 1990's in order to curb a property bubble. The economy was far too reliant on the construction sector, over 20% of the male workforce was employed in construction at the height of the madness. Water charges should have been introduced in the mid 1990's but that spineless wimp Brendan Howlin caved into the likes of Joe Higgins in 1996.
Based on what evidence...public spending creates an anchor in the economy during downturns. And we live in a capitalist system which is inherently unstable. So we will have business cycles. Economics 101.... Without the anchor of public spending, we would have found ourselves in an even worse depression than the 1930's. Austerity has failed in Europe. Even right wing Austrians are saying that...Time to change the song sheet. 7 years of 0% growth in Europe. Welcome to your solution. Do you know how much this mistake has cost this and future generations....Lots of Trillionsssssssssss....
Hong Kong is one of the best small economies in the developed World thanks to having a flat tax, I don't advocate a flat tax for Ireland but I believe noone should be taxed at a marginal tax rate greater than 40%. America had an economic boom thanks to cuts in taxation by Secretary Mellon and Calvin Coolidge.
I can't see the logic in this. All you are doing is reverting back to the narrow tax bands that caused so much trouble when the crisis initially hit. If you are going to change the tax system, change it. Freidman might have some ideas you'd like on this. But don't just argue for something that has already failed.
No issue with a property tax.
A property tax should have been introduced many years ago at the same time as cutting tax on Labour. It should have been set at 1% of the value of the house in the late 1990's in order to curb a property bubble. The economy was far too reliant on the construction sector, over 20% of the male workforce was employed in construction at the height of the madness. Water charges should have been introduced in the mid 1990's but that spineless wimp Brendan Howlin caved into the likes of Joe Higgins in 1996.
Based on what evidence...public spending creates an anchor in the economy during downturns. And we live in a capitalist system which is inherently unstable. So we will have business cycles. Economics 101.... Without the anchor of public spending, we would have found ourselves in an even worse depression than the 1930's. Austerity has failed in Europe. Even right wing Austrians are saying that...Time to change the song sheet. 7 years of 0% growth in Europe. Welcome to your solution. Do you know how much this mistake has cost this and future generations....Lots of Trillionsssssssssss....
Keynesnian economics has never worked in Ireland, it was a spectacular failure in the 30's. late 70's and the 1980's. In 1987 Ray McSharray as Minister for Finance cut public spending quite drastically, guess what happened within 2 years the budget deficit decline from over 7% of GDP to 1.7% by 1989, also the economy grew as the size of the state declined. As for Europe It's a dying continent economically thanks to heavy taxation, rigourous labour laws, heavy government bureaucracy, ageing populations, expensive public sectors and bloated welfare states. The sooner Europe embraces free market economics like Hong Kong and Singapore the better for their respective economies. In hong Kong and Singapore public spending as a percentage of GDP is less than 20% yet their respective societies enhoy some of the highest standards of living in the World. In Europe public spending as a percentage of GDP is over 40% in most states and indeed in France, Denmark and Sweden It's over 50% of GDP.
comment re America was in reference to the 1920's.
I'm pleased that Noonan abolished the Double Irish taxation rule for Multinantionals although not efefctive until 2020.
Multinationals need to be taxed at the full 12.5% instead of avoiding loopholes so that the government can cut taxes for workers in future budgets.
As for Socialism as Thatcher once said "The problem with Socialists is that they eventually run out of other people's money".
Multinationals need to be taxed at the full 12.5% instead of avoiding loopholes so that the government can cut taxes for workers in future budgets.
As for Socialism as Thatcher once said "The problem with Socialists is that they eventually run out of other people's money".
kennyfromdublin: The banks should have gob#ne bang in 2008
I agree in principle with this. The systems based on right wing capitalist agendas damaged it.
kennyfromdublin: Fianna Fail nearly wrecked the country in the late 1970's. They tried to spend their way out of recession in 1980-81 and it was a miserable failure.
Main failure around these times was inability to create fiscal policy in line with monetary and currency policy. The same accusation could be pointed at the government leading up until 1998. However, the biggest problem was the idea that laisse faire economic ideas in global financial systems was the "correct" way to go. Financial innovation and lax regulation led the way.
kennyfromdublin: The OAP was 101 euros in 1997 it was massively increased to 230 euros by 2009 which was 3 times the rate of inflation in that period.
The rate of increase in a payment doesn't reflect whether the payment is a "pittance". This is just grasping at straws.
kennyfromdublin: A smaller ratio of workers to peneioners in the future, people are living longer which will have a huge impact on the state finances. Unless of course you believe younger workers should be taxed to the hilt to pay for the ultra generous benefits that pensioners enjoy. It's financially prudent to privatise the welfare state.
Privatisation of the "welfare state" won't happen. It won't work. Main reason is that financial markets are not as efficient and amazing as you seem to think. Since the 1970', the world(and many countries) have suffered immensely from financial crises. You now want to tie the "welfare state" provisions to this system.
kennyfromdublin: Up until the 1970's there was an extremely low rate of marital breakdown in working class urban areas. In 1973 the Lone Parent Family payment was introduced, gradually from the 1980's onwards the percentage of children in council estates and many other poorer areas brought up in council estates has been gradually increasing. That wouldn't be the case if the Lone parent family payment had been introduced.
This is not evidence. It's bad reasoning. In the 1970'sand 1980's, the main change in the economic systems of the Western World was the change to right wing thinking. I would have thought that this would be a major causal factor. Although to this I would have to come up with some evidence myself. But it is better reasoning than you use.
Your argument here doesn't make sense.
kennyfromdublin: Hong Kong is one of the best small economies in the developed World thanks to having a flat tax, I don't advocate a flat tax for Ireland but I believe noone should be taxed at a marginal tax rate greater than 40%. America had an economic boom thanks to cuts in taxation by Secretary Mellon and Calvin Coolidge
I would suggest a flat tax would be an interesting idea. That is why I suggested some of Freidman's ideas around this. However, my argument was against the idea that tax cuts for the wealthy lead to economic expansions and greater tax revenues. There is plenty of solid economic evidence which supports that there is no link. Many of them studies actually suggest that if a "laffer curve" existed, it would only exist and have a turning point at rates of around 70%. The Mellon and Coolidge example is another example you use bad reasoning on. Many things were probably happening that created an economic boom. But you, badly reason, that it was tax cuts.
kennyfromdublin: A property tax should have been introduced many years ago at the same time as cutting tax on Labour. It should have been set at 1% of the value of the house in the late 1990's in order to curb a property bubble. The economy was far too reliant on the construction sector, over 20% of the male workforce was employed in construction at the height of the madness. Water charges should have been introduced in the mid 1990's but that spineless wimp Brendan Howlin caved into the likes of Joe Higgins in 1996.
I agree with property taxes. I disagree with water taxes. Both, in Ireland's sense, can be looked on a Pigovian taxes. They attempt to change behaviour due to problems of scarcity that bad behaviour may bring about. So I agree with property taxes in the sense that investment property must take this into account. Water taxes are just a means to increase government revenue to pay of private bank debt. There is no chance of water scarcity in Ireland. Not for a longtime at least.
The main issue I had with your suggestion on income tax was that all it was doing was bringing back the income tax regime we had during the boom. The lack of foresight with such narrow taxation probably cost our country 30-50 billion.
kennyfromdublin: Keynesnian economics has never worked in Ireland, it was a spectacular failure in the 30's. late 70's and the 1980's. In 1987 Ray McSharray as Minister for Finance cut public spending quite drastically, guess what happened within 2 years the budget deficit decline from over 7% of GDP to 1.7% by 1989, also the economy grew as the size of the state declined. Denmark and Sweden It's over 50% of GDP
Of course Keynesian economics works. Problems in the 1930's, 1980's and 1990's relate to changes in the systems due to changes in thinking. Keynesian economics is a central part of the way economies work today all over the Western World. His ideas are central to the way central banks do everyday operations. Sure, the new economic system is called New Classical or New Keynesian economics.
In relation to your Ray McSharry and cuts in public spending idea, this is simply bad reasoning again. What you are talking about here is the idea of "expansionary fiscal contraction". This has been rejected by economists from both sides of the left/right divide as a reasoning for Ireland's economic boom in the 1990's. There is lots of literature on this.
Europe is dying, not because of the reasons you set out. Austerity has failed. It has cost our continent "a lost decade", possibly even more. Denmark and Sweden enjoy the highest standards of living in the world. They are consistently placed in the top 5 economies to live in the world along many different measurements. You suggest that the problems are down to too much spending...The Western World is failing because of right wing economics. Not the other way around....
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but use search for quisling, you see
this person, knows his stuff they say and people listen
all i know fron here is you are your party betrayed ireland and work for england
i hope you can persaude us other wise