NidifugousOPYap, Federated States of Micronesia1,430 posts
Because of the severe drought in California, we just got notice that starting next month, everyone will have to conserve. There's now a limit of daily water usage for single households, families (per unit/head) but businesses are exempt. The local rag states that the reason is that they cannot predict/estimate usage. (That's b.s. in my opinion).
While I think some enterprises should be exempt (hospitals for example), others should not be (car washes, golf courses, country clubs, restaurants, etc.). The obvious downside is that places that make their money based on water usage would suffer to the point of possibly going out of business. Then again, how important is it to have a clean car? eat in instead of out? or have a well manicured lawn.
The fines for usage over the allotment are pretty stiff. 1/3d of the daily allowance over will be fined at about $ 100 to a max of $ 1000 per billing cycle. Then again, that raises the question: Fining may be an incentive to conserve, but it doesn't miraculously turn into greater water availability.
Do you think businesses should be exempt or not? Do you think fines are appropriate or would a simple shut-off be a better option? How should a city and people deal with water shortages?
NidifugousOPYap, Federated States of Micronesia1,430 posts
My personal favorite solution is to simply shut off Las Vegas and open the dams to let the water run down to California as it did in the first place (jk) Who needs Vegas anyway
Nidifugous: Because of the severe drought in California, we just got notice that starting next month, everyone will have to conserve. There's now a limit of daily water usage for single households, families (per unit/head) but businesses are exempt. The local rag states that the reason is that they cannot predict/estimate usage. (That's b.s. in my opinion).
While I think some enterprises should be exempt (hospitals for example), others should not be (car washes, golf courses, country clubs, restaurants, etc.). The obvious downside is that places that make their money based on water usage would suffer to the point of possibly going out of business. Then again, how important is it to have a clean car? eat in instead of out? or have a well manicured lawn.
The fines for usage over the allotment are pretty stiff. 1/3d of the daily allowance over will be fined at about $ 100 to a max of $ 1000 per billing cycle. Then again, that raises the question: Fining may be an incentive to conserve, but it doesn't miraculously turn into greater water availability.
Do you think businesses should be exempt or not? Do you think fines are appropriate or would a simple shut-off be a better option? How should a city and people deal with water shortages?
although certain services can be deemed essential services..ie police. where do you draw the line. while it might not be that important to you to have your car washed or grass cut...it's probably pretty important to the person who depends on the income from that job to support their family. but at some point, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few and conservation needs to be in place to deal with the fires.
NidifugousOPYap, Federated States of Micronesia1,430 posts
jono7: although certain services can be deemed essential services..ie police. where do you draw the line. while it might not be that important to you to have your car washed or grass cut...it's probably pretty important to the person who depends on the income from that job to support their family. but at some point, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few and conservation needs to be in place to deal with the fires.
jmo
That's why I put it up for discussion. It's not just a matter of what I think. Essential services (hospital, fire, etc.) need to have access to water, but conservation is necessary. If water becomes too scarce, then those non-essential businesses will have to shut down anyway and people will be laid off. Maybe a compromise would work where they only operate a half a day.
Why didn't the Californian administration foresee this event and put contingency plans in place? Why didn't they try to find alternative water supplies? it is not as if this has never happened before.
Perhaps the administration should be fined for not doing their job properly
NidifugousOPYap, Federated States of Micronesia1,430 posts
rizlared: The question that comes to my mind is why?
Why didn't the Californian administration foresee this event and put contingency plans in place? Why didn't they try to find alternative water supplies? it is not as if this has never happened before.
Perhaps the administration should be fined for not doing their job properly
Good question. Apparently the last two years have been the driest in history. Contingency planning is not something that the US does well on any level. That said, the diversion of a lot of water to Las Vegas has been a well known problem (the joke was really only half a joke). It has been known also that the reservoirs in WA that feed the river have been down. Conservation should have been made mandatory a long time ago, imo. Alas, here we are with the problem.
Nidifugous: Good question. Apparently the last two years have been the driest in history. Contingency planning is not something that the US does well on any level. That said, the diversion of a lot of water to Las Vegas has been a well known problem (the joke was really only half a joke). It has been known also that the reservoirs in WA that feed the river have been down. Conservation should have been made mandatory a long time ago, imo. Alas, here we are with the problem.
Makes you wonder why, when the USA spends so much on military, that perhaps a better use would be investing in ways to convert sea water to drinking water. Something that would benefit the whole world not just California.
NidifugousOPYap, Federated States of Micronesia1,430 posts
rizlared: Makes you wonder why, when the USA spends so much on military, that perhaps a better use would be investing in ways to convert sea water to drinking water. Something that would benefit the whole world not just California.
Guess oil is more important that human survival.
There are desalination plants. In fact, a new one is under construction. I think one additional thing that should be curbed is the sale of public wells and springs to private companies. Nestle (Swiss) is buying up water sources world-over. I think it takes no genius to figure out why they do that. The local governments are cash strapped and to meet their obligations, selling public assets is often the simplest solution. The long-term implications aren't thought about much. This is something that I wish the privatization supporters would think about more. In the end, only the people with means will be able to afford water.
Nidifugous: There are desalination plants. In fact, a new one is under construction. I think one additional thing that should be curbed is the sale of public wells and springs to private companies. Nestle (Swiss) is buying up water sources world-over. I think it takes no genius to figure out why they do that. The local governments are cash strapped and to meet their obligations, selling public assets is often the simplest solution. The long-term implications aren't thought about much. This is something that I wish the privatization supporters would think about more. In the end, only the people with means will be able to afford water.
another suggestion is to reuse water (from a car wash for example) any time there is a non potable water need, reused or recycled water that is not suitable for drinking could be used to wash cars, put out fires and to some extent even water lawns and fields. Car washes, for example, could have capture systems.
The NG fracturing industry has been doing this with some success.
The southwest has had water issues for years, decades, for far longer than the last 2 years. There is no excuse for more not having been done a lot sooner to conserve rather than hope that other regions would allow water diversions (which would only serve to destroy more of those local environments, no thanks). Big Ag is not innocent in all of this either and is probably the biggest offender.
Nidifugous: There are desalination plants. In fact, a new one is under construction. I think one additional thing that should be curbed is the sale of public wells and springs to private companies. Nestle (Swiss) is buying up water sources world-over. I think it takes no genius to figure out why they do that. The local governments are cash strapped and to meet their obligations, selling public assets is often the simplest solution. The long-term implications aren't thought about much. This is something that I wish the privatization supporters would think about more. In the end, only the people with means will be able to afford water.
Totally agree, in the town where my parents live in the UK, the area is/was famous for the natural spring water, even the Queen drank it!! Yet the local council sold the rights to schweppes, who now charge locals for collecting from certain outlets within the Malvern area, a disgraceful state of affairs, and as you said, soon only the wealthy will be able to have access to drinking water.
lifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico16,713 posts
Nidifugous: Because of the severe drought in California, we just got notice that starting next month, everyone will have to conserve. There's now a limit of daily water usage for single households, families (per unit/head) but businesses are exempt. The local rag states that the reason is that they cannot predict/estimate usage. (That's b.s. in my opinion).
While I think some enterprises should be exempt (hospitals for example), others should not be (car washes, golf courses, country clubs, restaurants, etc.). The obvious downside is that places that make their money based on water usage would suffer to the point of possibly going out of business. Then again, how important is it to have a clean car? eat in instead of out? or have a well manicured lawn.
The fines for usage over the allotment are pretty stiff. 1/3d of the daily allowance over will be fined at about $ 100 to a max of $ 1000 per billing cycle. Then again, that raises the question: Fining may be an incentive to conserve, but it doesn't miraculously turn into greater water availability.
Do you think businesses should be exempt or not? Do you think fines are appropriate or would a simple shut-off be a better option? How should a city and people deal with water shortages?
Water shortage is quite common in my place. Some businesses like car wash do recycle the water and some gov institutions treat the water, so the gray water goes for town’s garden irrigation. In a few areas of the city, they get water every other day but people do have reservoirs.
What to do in California?
Business, golf court,... should pay for the m3 they use of water. Grass requires lots of water to grow and then people cut it it is time to make some changes, we do have some stone gardens and they are nice.
Which sector of California uses the most water?
Agriculture? 75 % Then, agriculture must be re-evaluated.
Water shortage is quite common in my place. Some businesses like car wash do recycle the water and some gov institutions treat the water, so the gray water goes for town’s garden irrigation. In a few areas of the city, they get water every other day but people do have reservoirs.
What to do in California?
Business, golf court,... should pay for the m3 they use of water. Grass requires lots of water to grow and then people cut it it is time to make some changes, we do have some stone gardens and they are nice.
Which sector of California uses the most water?
Agriculture? 75 % Then, agriculture must be re-evaluated.[/quote]Food first , California is feeding a lot more than Californians . Lawns and golf courses can well be done without .
epirb: Water shortage is quite common in my place. Some businesses like car wash do recycle the water and some gov institutions treat the water, so the gray water goes for town’s garden irrigation. In a few areas of the city, they get water every other day but people do have reservoirs.
What to do in California?
Business, golf court,... should pay for the m3 they use of water. Grass requires lots of water to grow and then people cut it it is time to make some changes, we do have some stone gardens and they are nice.
Which sector of California uses the most water?
Agriculture? 75 % Then, agriculture must be re-evaluated.Food first , California is feeding a lot more than Californians . Lawns and golf courses can well be done without .
lifeisadreamMexi Go, Mexico State Mexico16,713 posts
epirb: Food first , California is feeding a lot more than Californians . Lawns and golf courses can well be done without .
Perhaps I was not clear about the golf court: they should pay every drop of water they use and with not subsidies.
Who uses Golf courts? Will they close the golf court? They will not, so make them pay the real price of the water if possible.
Agriculture uses the most water in California. Which crops use the most water in California’s agriculture: Alfafa and other forages. Which crops should be growing in California, regarding to efficient water use and return of investment?
People might not have money to buy the food (which that is another story) but I do not know of anyone in USA starving because of lack of food in the country it seems rather the other way.
lifeisadream: Perhaps I was not clear about the golf court: they should pay every drop of water they use and with not subsidies.
Who uses Golf courts? Will they close the golf court? They will not, so make them pay the real price of the water if possible.
Agriculture uses the most water in California. Which crops use the most water in California’s agriculture: Alfafa and other forages. Which crops should be growing in California, regarding to efficient water use and return of investment?
People might not have money to buy the food (which that is another story) but I do not know of anyone in USA starving because of lack of food in the country it seems rather the other way.
I wouldn't worry about which crop uses more water . Next weather extreme we will be talking about will be a flood . El nino system looks likes its running again . 15-20 year cycle keeping pace like it always has and will . Stuff the golf courses , no water . Expensive food will bring hunger alright no matter how modern an economy . Ironic Los Vegas hogging water when it would be used to produce food for them elsewhere . Obama might find himself begging in the UN for food to feed his country yet . US got any credit left , may be wanting to be paid in gold from now on thanks .
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While I think some enterprises should be exempt (hospitals for example), others should not be (car washes, golf courses, country clubs, restaurants, etc.). The obvious downside is that places that make their money based on water usage would suffer to the point of possibly going out of business. Then again, how important is it to have a clean car? eat in instead of out? or have a well manicured lawn.
The fines for usage over the allotment are pretty stiff. 1/3d of the daily allowance over will be fined at about $ 100 to a max of $ 1000 per billing cycle. Then again, that raises the question: Fining may be an incentive to conserve, but it doesn't miraculously turn into greater water availability.
Do you think businesses should be exempt or not? Do you think fines are appropriate or would a simple shut-off be a better option?
How should a city and people deal with water shortages?