Vatican Wealth!! (70)
annaroach: The vatican is one of the most historically rich places
in the world.
It has also got a lot of priceless, artworks within it's museums,
paintings, sculptures gold etc.
Should these be held within the vatican, and be there for all to view , when visiting Rome or, be sold and be used to feed the hungry of the world?
What are your views on this?
in the world.
It has also got a lot of priceless, artworks within it's museums,
paintings, sculptures gold etc.
Should these be held within the vatican, and be there for all to view , when visiting Rome or, be sold and be used to feed the hungry of the world?
What are your views on this?
World food production already surpasses human requirements.
Food gets chucked into garbage trucks in the West, whilst the poor starve in the Third World.
The problem is human greed, whereby "business ethics and morals" dictate that making money is more important than alleviating suffering in poorer countries.
The wealth of the Vatican would not alter that.
stanley8m: World food production already surpasses human requirements.
Food gets chucked into garbage trucks in the West, whilst the poor starve in the Third World.
The problem is human greed, whereby "business ethics and morals" dictate that making money is more important than alleviating suffering in poorer countries.
The wealth of the Vatican would not alter that.
Food gets chucked into garbage trucks in the West, whilst the poor starve in the Third World.
The problem is human greed, whereby "business ethics and morals" dictate that making money is more important than alleviating suffering in poorer countries.
The wealth of the Vatican would not alter that.
That aside, the Pope as head of the catholic church can change that if all the valuables are sold, surely it is something that has to be considered at some point soon.
annaroach: That aside, the Pope as head of the catholic church can change that if all the valuables are sold, surely it is something that has to be considered at some point soon.
It could be argued that the church are guardians of the art in their possession, and they are custodians of the accumulated masterpieces.
It is their duty to protect and preserve them for future generations.
The Vatican museums are a wonderful place to visit along with the art and sculptures in churches throughout Italy and the world.
Therefore, has the pope the right to sell the artworks currently owned by the Catholic church?
Furthermore, would dispersal of the Vatican art, diminish the sensual experience and public enjoyment of being able to see it all in one environ?
annaroach: The vatican is one of the most historically rich places
in the world.
It has also got a lot of priceless, artworks within it's museums,
paintings, sculptures gold etc.
Should these be held within the vatican, and be there for all to view , when visiting Rome or, be sold and be used to feed the hungry of the world?
What are your views on this?
in the world.
It has also got a lot of priceless, artworks within it's museums,
paintings, sculptures gold etc.
Should these be held within the vatican, and be there for all to view , when visiting Rome or, be sold and be used to feed the hungry of the world?
What are your views on this?
At it's most general level, this comes down to a question of property rights.
Do you believe that you have a right to private property? Would you be happy if someone decided to sell your property to feed the world's poor?
stanley8m: It could be argued that the church are guardians of the art in their possession, and they are custodians of the accumulated masterpieces.
It is their duty to protect and preserve them for future generations.
The Vatican museums are a wonderful place to visit along with the art and sculptures in churches throughout Italy and the world.
Therefore, has the pope the right to sell the artworks currently owned by the Catholic church?
Furthermore, would dispersal of the Vatican art, diminish the sensual experience and public enjoyment of being able to see it all in one environ?
It is their duty to protect and preserve them for future generations.
The Vatican museums are a wonderful place to visit along with the art and sculptures in churches throughout Italy and the world.
Therefore, has the pope the right to sell the artworks currently owned by the Catholic church?
Furthermore, would dispersal of the Vatican art, diminish the sensual experience and public enjoyment of being able to see it all in one environ?
I'm looking at it from the humanatarian aspect, letting people die while there is such wealth is not a very christian thing to do, now is it?
annaroach: I'm looking at it from the humanatarian aspect, letting people die while there is such wealth is not a very christian thing to do, now is it?
From a humanitarian stance, if one is really interested in removing World poverty, one should sell all of one's assets and donate the proceedings to alleviate hunger in the Third World.
Perhaps one could start this process.
Yeats1980: At it's most general level, this comes down to a question of property rights.
Do you believe that you have a right to private property? Would you be happy if someone decided to sell your property to feed the world's poor?
Do you believe that you have a right to private property? Would you be happy if someone decided to sell your property to feed the world's poor?
My property would not feed the worlds poor, the vaticans ,, would.
annaroach: My property would not feed the worlds poor, the vaticans ,, would.
That's completely irrelevant.
The question was would you like someone to come along to you and remove your property rights by telling you they were selling your property to feed the world's poor. Maybe they say this to everyone and add up all the proceeds...
What would your answer be to this request?
Also why just relate the question to the wealth of the Vatican?
stanley8m: From a humanitarian stance, if one is really interested in removing World poverty, one should sell all of one's assets and donate the proceedings to alleviate hunger in the Third World.
Perhaps one could start this process.
Perhaps one could start this process.
I will if you will
Yeats1980: That's completely irrelevant.
The question was would you like someone to come along to you and remove your property rights by telling you they were selling your property to feed the world's poor. Maybe they say this to everyone and add up all the proceeds...
What would your answer be to this request?
Also why just relate the question to the wealth of the Vatican?
The question was would you like someone to come along to you and remove your property rights by telling you they were selling your property to feed the world's poor. Maybe they say this to everyone and add up all the proceeds...
What would your answer be to this request?
Also why just relate the question to the wealth of the Vatican?
No i would not like it.
But i would do my share, , if they were removing my property rights, then it would not be a request .
I relate the question to the Vatican as it is home to the head of the catholic church, which preaches and has indoctrinated, us with such charitable beliefs from childhood.
annaroach: No i would not like it.
But i would do my share, , if they were removing my property rights, then it would not be a request .
But i would do my share, , if they were removing my property rights, then it would not be a request .
So you are asking a question, based from a humanitarian perspective and high moral grounding, and you say that you would not like your property to be disposed of this way.
Why should the Catholic Church be any different?
You do seem to be insinuating that your morals on this issue is higher than that of the Catholic Church, yet from this higher platform, you would also be resistant against your property alleviating world hunger?
annaroach: I relate the question to the Vatican as it is home to the head of the catholic church, which preaches and has indoctrinated, us with such charitable beliefs from childhood.
Yes, it has. And I believe the And it is a good moral value to preach to people. You preach the same thing here.
However, we also must remember that the Church also take part in huge charitable operations around the world.
stanley8m: It could be argued that the church are guardians of the art in their possession, and they are custodians of the accumulated masterpieces.
It is their duty to protect and preserve them for future generations.
The Vatican museums are a wonderful place to visit along with the art and sculptures in churches throughout Italy and the world.
Therefore, has the pope the right to sell the artworks currently owned by the Catholic church?
Furthermore, would dispersal of the Vatican art, diminish the sensual experience and public enjoyment of being able to see it all in one environ?
It is their duty to protect and preserve them for future generations.
The Vatican museums are a wonderful place to visit along with the art and sculptures in churches throughout Italy and the world.
Therefore, has the pope the right to sell the artworks currently owned by the Catholic church?
Furthermore, would dispersal of the Vatican art, diminish the sensual experience and public enjoyment of being able to see it all in one environ?
Ok then for argument sake,
Keep all the artifacts, and give money instead, now don't say there is a cash flow problem lol
annaroach: Why did you choose someplace not befitting for it?
Because it could happen.
Honestly, I can see where you are coming from but the art belongs where it is. It was for the most part commissioned by the Church and would not have been created without church benefactors.
The context and history of the Vatican, combined with it's links to the opulence of imperial Rome, sits well with the treasures on show there.
Perhaps the Church could sell some of its land and assets worldwide, and just leave the art where it is.
Yeats1980: So you are asking a question, based from a humanitarian perspective and high moral grounding, and you say that you would not like your property to be disposed of this way.
Why should the Catholic Church be any different?
You do seem to be insinuating that your morals on this issue is higher than that of the Catholic Church, yet from this higher platform, you would also be resistant against your property alleviating world hunger?
Yes, it has. And I believe the And it is a good moral value to preach to people. You preach the same thing here.
However, we also must remember that the Church also take part in huge charitable operations around the world.
Why should the Catholic Church be any different?
You do seem to be insinuating that your morals on this issue is higher than that of the Catholic Church, yet from this higher platform, you would also be resistant against your property alleviating world hunger?
Yes, it has. And I believe the And it is a good moral value to preach to people. You preach the same thing here.
However, we also must remember that the Church also take part in huge charitable operations around the world.
If i gave my home, then i would be homeless and that is not the premise that i am coming from, if i was very wealthy, i would give most of what i had away to less fortunate, and i give as much as i can now to do MY part ,as little as that might be, everything is relevant!!
stanley8m: Because it could happen.
Honestly, I can see where you are coming from but the art belongs where it is. It was for the most part commissioned by the Church and would not have been created without church benefactors.
The context and history of the Vatican, combined with it's links to the opulence of imperial Rome, sits well with the treasures on show there.
Perhaps the Church could sell some of its land and assets worldwide, and just leave the art where it is.
Honestly, I can see where you are coming from but the art belongs where it is. It was for the most part commissioned by the Church and would not have been created without church benefactors.
The context and history of the Vatican, combined with it's links to the opulence of imperial Rome, sits well with the treasures on show there.
Perhaps the Church could sell some of its land and assets worldwide, and just leave the art where it is.
Yes as i just said in my last post, i would agree with leaving the art where it is, and contributing some of its assets, there would still be plenty left over
annaroach: If i gave my home, then i would be homeless and that is not the premise that i am coming from, if i was very wealthy, i would give most of what i had away to less fortunate, and i give as much as i can now to do MY part ,as little as that might be, everything is relevant!!
This is very nice and it seems that the Church has "indoctrinated" you really well.
It still doesn't get to the crux of the matter. Telling other people what to do with their property; not being willing to do the same with your own property; but all the while taking the higher moral platform.
Good question, by the way...but issues around property rights can get pretty messy...
Yeats1980: This is very nice and it seems that the Church has "indoctrinated" you really well.
It still doesn't get to the crux of the matter. Telling other people what to do with their property; not being willing to do the same with your own property; but all the while taking the higher moral platform.
Good question, by the way...but issues around property rights can get pretty messy...
It still doesn't get to the crux of the matter. Telling other people what to do with their property; not being willing to do the same with your own property; but all the while taking the higher moral platform.
Good question, by the way...but issues around property rights can get pretty messy...
You seem to overlook or avoid my point about everything being relevant
My portion = a little,, The Church/Vatican = alot
annaroach: You seem to overlook or avoid my point about everything being relevant
My portion = a little,, The Church/Vatican = alot
My portion = a little,, The Church/Vatican = alot
Yes, and the Church does a lot already in the poorest parts of the world. You seem to be arguing on a relative perspective of things, which is fine. You have small wealth, so you need to keep some to maintain your lifestyle. And you give a little portion to the poor.
The Church has big wealth, so they spare more than you...which is fine.
But you fail to look at the relative gap about what keeps you in existence and what keeps the Church in existence. You need you house and other belongings to survive for you and your family. But the Church also has a family....1.1 billion Christians. So there house is going to be bigger than yours...everything must be relative if you are going to argue on the relative point.
annaroach: You seem to overlook or avoid my point about everything being relevant
My portion = a little,, The Church/Vatican = alot
My portion = a little,, The Church/Vatican = alot
Simple way of looking at it is to consider a ratio of how much you give per year against your total wealth. You say you are a charitable person.
Now look at what the Church gives to the poorest every year against their total wealth.
I would guess that your ratio would not be higher than the Church's ratio.
So the question remains, why do you feel it is morally right to sell their stuff??
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Created: Aug 2015
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in the world.
It has also got a lot of priceless, artworks within it's museums,
paintings, sculptures gold etc.
Should these be held within the vatican, and be there for all to view , when visiting Rome or, be sold and be used to feed the hungry of the world?
What are your views on this?