Recent accident-- ( Archived) (18)

Aug 11, 2016 3:08 PM CST Recent accident--
This morning on a news magazine show I heard a short reference to an incident involving a woman who was accidentally shot while participating in a police exercise of some kind. I can't seem to find anything else, or I am just not looking for the correct topic to get it to come up. Anyone have info on this, are there any threads here (CS) regarding it? Thanx
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Aug 11, 2016 3:28 PM CST Recent accident--
Is this it Ro ?

Mary Knowlton knew that the key to enjoying retirement in Punta Gorda, Fla., was to stay active, her friends say, and they had no idea how she kept so busy. When she signed up for a citizens academy held by the local police department, she and her husband were among 35 people hoping to learn more about law enforcement tactics.

During the training on Tuesday, which drew community leaders, business employees and even the chief of the Punta Gorda Police Department, Ms. Knowlton was selected to participate in a “shoot/don’t shoot” role-play exercise. But the session went terribly wrong.

Ms. Knowlton, 73, was accidentally shot and killed by a police officer, according to the authorities.

The police chief, Thomas P. Lewis, said at a news conference on Wednesday that Ms. Knowlton had been killed by an officer who fired a revolver that had been used before in the role-play exercise intended to teach people how to make decisions when confronted with lethal force.

The chief, who said he had been present at the time of the shooting, did not address why the officer, whom the department later identified as Officer Lee Coel, used live rounds in the training session.


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Aug 11, 2016 3:34 PM CST Recent accident--
Aragorn11: Is this it Ro ?

Mary Knowlton knew that the key to enjoying retirement in Punta Gorda, Fla., was to stay active, her friends say, and they had no idea how she kept so busy. When she signed up for a citizens academy held by the local police department, she and her husband were among 35 people hoping to learn more about law enforcement tactics.

During the training on Tuesday, which drew community leaders, business employees and even the chief of the Punta Gorda Police Department, Ms. Knowlton was selected to participate in a “shoot/don’t shoot” role-play exercise. But the session went terribly wrong.

Ms. Knowlton, 73, was accidentally shot and killed by a police officer, according to the authorities.

The police chief, Thomas P. Lewis, said at a news conference on Wednesday that Ms. Knowlton had been killed by an officer who fired a revolver that had been used before in the role-play exercise intended to teach people how to make decisions when confronted with lethal force.

The chief, who said he had been present at the time of the shooting, did not address why the officer, whom the department later identified as Officer Lee Coel, used live rounds in the training session.

Hi Aragorn--Yes, I just received this same information after waiting an hour--You are correct. It is the incident I was trying to research. Thanks for getting back to me. Further, it is almost 100% probable that the officer will be terminated and likely charged. Now, I know many people have mixed feelings on that. I do believe these kinds of incidents require some accountability. Tough row to hoe for all...
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Aug 11, 2016 3:36 PM CST Recent accident--
WittyandWise
WittyandWiseWittyandWiseDerry, Donegal Ireland15 Threads 2 Polls 3,364 Posts
Aragorn11: Is this it Ro ?

Mary Knowlton knew that the key to enjoying retirement in Punta Gorda, Fla., was to stay active, her friends say, and they had no idea how she kept so busy. When she signed up for a citizens academy held by the local police department, she and her husband were among 35 people hoping to learn more about law enforcement tactics.

During the training on Tuesday, which drew community leaders, business employees and even the chief of the Punta Gorda Police Department, Ms. Knowlton was selected to participate in a “shoot/don’t shoot” role-play exercise. But the session went terribly wrong.

Ms. Knowlton, 73, was accidentally shot and killed by a police officer, according to the authorities.

The police chief, Thomas P. Lewis, said at a news conference on Wednesday that Ms. Knowlton had been killed by an officer who fired a revolver that had been used before in the role-play exercise intended to teach people how to make decisions when confronted with lethal force.

The chief, who said he had been present at the time of the shooting, did not address why the officer, whom the department later identified as Officer Lee Coel, used live rounds in the training session.



Unbelievable, how can trained police officer not check his gun is empty in a training sessionshock
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Aug 11, 2016 3:40 PM CST Recent accident--
rohaan: Hi Aragorn--Yes, I just received this same information after waiting an hour--You are correct. It is the incident I was trying to research. Thanks for getting back to me. Further, it is almost 100% probable that the officer will be terminated and likely charged. Now, I know many people have mixed feelings on that. I do believe these kinds of incidents require some accountability. Tough row to hoe for all...


I do too.
Details are sketchy and the question of live rounds being used will take some investigation I guess. I don't think there is a question of this being more than an accident, but the consequences should be factored in imo.

Hope you're well wave
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Aug 11, 2016 3:41 PM CST Recent accident--
WittyandWise: Unbelievable, how can trained police officer not check his gun is empty in a training session


I think they may use blanks in the exercises dunno

wave
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Aug 11, 2016 3:51 PM CST Recent accident--
WittyandWise
WittyandWiseWittyandWiseDerry, Donegal Ireland15 Threads 2 Polls 3,364 Posts
Aragorn11: I think they may use blanks in the exercises


So he was firing blanks innocent
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Aug 11, 2016 3:53 PM CST Recent accident--
rohaan: Hi Aragorn--Yes, I just received this same information after waiting an hour--You are correct. It is the incident I was trying to research. Thanks for getting back to me. Further, it is almost 100% probable that the officer will be terminated and likely charged. Now, I know many people have mixed feelings on that. I do believe these kinds of incidents require some accountability. Tough row to hoe for all...



Hold on Ro. As you will hear in this video the officer has been put on administrative leave. There is NO talk of him losing his job. I saw another video where the husband forgives the officer. As to why live bullets were used, sometimes they use them, sometimes they don't. I went to the very same Academy training when my daughter became a police officer.


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Aug 11, 2016 3:54 PM CST Recent accident--
WittyandWise: So he was firing blanks


Yeah, not enough real men anymore flex
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Aug 11, 2016 4:03 PM CST Recent accident--
As I said, I took part in Citizen Academy Training like this woman did. At one time there was a video training exercise for each of us to make a quick second decision of which person was a good guy vs. bad guy. In every case I killed everyone, good and bad because I wasn't able to process which was which. In the training exercise in Florida they used real people instead of videos.



The officer who shot and killed a 73-year-old retired librarian during a police "shoot/don't shoot" demonstration in Florida was accused of using excessive force with his police dog and resigned from another police agency in 2013 for failing to satisfactorily complete a field training program.

Officer Lee Coel, 28, was put on administrative leave as the Florida Department of Law Enforcement investigates why real ammunition was used by mistake at an event designed to bring police and the public together in the small Gulf Coast city of Punta Gorda.

Chief Tom Lewis said Thursday he is taking "full responsibility" for the shooting, which he witnessed on Monday night. He expected the state agency to finish its investigation in about two to four weeks.

Coel has worked for the department since 2014 and frequently gave department presentations and tours, "specifically role-playing in these shoot/don't shoot scenarios," police spokeswoman Lt. Katie Heck said.

The department did not make Coel available for comment Wednesday. A woman who answered a phone listed for Coel said she didn't want to talk and hung up.

The chief said the officer is grief stricken and other officers have been assigned to him to make sure he's psychologically stable.

On Tuesday night, Mary Knowlton, a well-known community volunteer, assumed the role of the officer during the "shoot/don't shoot" exercise, Heck said.

During such an exercise, the citizen "assumes the role of the officer, and is confronted with situations in which they must make a decision about whether to use force on the role-player," Heck said. "The situations escalate quickly, forcing fast decisions. Historically, it fosters a better understanding for what officers face during an intense situation, and leads to informative dialogue between the community and officers who act as role players."

Both the citizen and the officer have a firearm during these scenarios.

But the guns are either supposed to be loaded with blanks or "simunition guns," which are real-looking weapons that fire a non-lethal projectile with reduced force. Knowlton was mistakenly struck with a live round.

The police chief said his department has been doing the exercise for about two years.

Mary Knowlton attended the class with her husband and it was supposed to be "a fun night," her son said Wednesday.

Punta Gorda officials aren't saying how a gun with a live round came to be used at Tuesday evening's demonstration, noting blank rounds are typically used in such classes.

The victim's son, Steve Knowlton, said in an interview at his parents' home that, on his mother's behalf, he was forgiving the officer who fired.

Mary Knowlton moved to Florida after living for years in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. Books and magazines lay scattered on tables of the home she shared in Florida with Gary, her husband of 55 years. The couple split their time between Minnesota and the small Gulf Coast community. She had two sons.

"There's too much hate in this world, in America, we always feel like we need revenge and it doesn't solve anything," Steve Knowlton said. "I obviously can't say it's easy to forgive, but it needs to be done. She's watching me now."
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Aug 11, 2016 4:10 PM CST Recent accident--
Sounds like a nice family Monte wave

I can't see the video you posted, but am not sure these exercises were meant for use with live rounds. If so someone messed up. Tragic either way.
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Aug 11, 2016 4:39 PM CST Recent accident--
secretagent09: Hold on Ro. As you will hear in this video the officer has been put on administrative leave. There is NO talk of him losing his job. I saw another video where the husband forgives the officer. As to why live bullets were used, sometimes they use them, sometimes they don't. I went to the very same Academy training when my daughter became a police officer.
I know he has been put on administrative leave. I am aware there has been no talk of him losing his job so far. It is my belief that he will, because of the lack of careful checking beforehand. There are rapid changes in the United States currently. No, I do not have any deeper information than what you have posted. It is simply what I believe will happen. It may not, but I seriously doubt it. (This one is going to be a deciding factor in how professional security is viewed, I predict).
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Aug 13, 2016 6:05 AM CST Recent accident--
TheRedSquirrel87
TheRedSquirrel87TheRedSquirrel87Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK1 Threads 1,107 Posts
I know that the police have recruitment difficulties, but how low are they setting the bar these days?
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Aug 13, 2016 7:35 AM CST Recent accident--
rizlaredonline today!
rizlaredonline today!rizlaredNot in Cebu City, Central Visayas Philippines89 Threads 2 Polls 5,588 Posts
TheRedSquirrel87: I know that the police have recruitment difficulties, but how low are they setting the bar these days?

You must remember Deputy Dawg, he's a Cheif of Police now.
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Aug 13, 2016 8:49 AM CST Recent accident--
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
rizlared: You must remember Deputy Dawg, he's a Cheif of Police now.


You never point a gun, loaded or not, at anyone unless youre considering killing him. If you want to simulate something, beging by simulating the guns.

THE town is probably going to face a huge lawsuit.
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Aug 13, 2016 9:12 AM CST Recent accident--
MikeD12
MikeD12MikeD12Broadstairs, Kent, England UK16 Threads 2 Polls 2,809 Posts
raphael119: You never point a gun, loaded or not, at anyone unless youre considering killing him. If you want to simulate something, beging by simulating the guns. THE town is probably going to face a huge lawsuit.


Why? - It is your Crap Police Force who should face the lawsuit, and the Police top Brass who organise a practice that allows Live Rounds to be issued should all face Immediate arrest for causing Death by Corporate negligence and make an example of them.
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Aug 13, 2016 11:31 AM CST Recent accident--
Ken_19
Ken_19Ken_19Winchester, Virginia USA68 Threads 26 Polls 1,055 Posts
The officer in question had been previously cited on the street for bad judgment and had complaints of using excessive force as well. Why he decided to carry a loaded weapon during a use of force training exercise is not yet divulged.
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Aug 16, 2016 9:05 AM CST Recent accident--
raphael119
raphael119raphael119washington d.c., District of Columbia USA19 Threads 3 Polls 5,181 Posts
MikeD12: Why? - It is your Crap Police Force who should face the lawsuit, and the Police top Brass who organise a practice that allows Live Rounds to be issued should all face Immediate arrest for causing Death by Corporate negligence and make an example of them.



unfortunately, i bet the towns liable in their state, i dont know much about law here regarding work related homicide, but i believe police have a lot of immunity unless its intentional homicide. Maybe gross negligence?
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