The Crusifiction (14)
ooby_dooby: Now I would like to offer some facts relating to the alleged crusifixion of christ. It is claimed that this one time carpenter/prophet hauled the very cross he was to be hung from all the way to the top of Calvary hill or mountain. In all the pictures I've ever seen of the crusifixion the cross appeared to be rough hewn wood of about 6-8" square. The length of the crossbar had to be at a minimum 6 feet long to allow material for the nails or rope to tie the wrists whichever was done. We have no idea what kind of wood the cross was made from but being conservative to the maximum extreme let's assume it was made of the lightest wood available at the time in the area where this supposedly took place, namely Cedar. This would mean the crossbar weighed about 34 lbs. The vertical mast extended about a foot above the crossbar and the feet of Christ was shone to be about 4 feet above the ground. The vertical mast of the cross couldn't have merely sat on top of the ground because it would have simply fell over. Therefore it had to be set into a hole in the ground at least 2 1/2 feet to keep it from falling over. This would mean the length of the vertical post had to be a minimum of 13 feet. Assuming it had the same cross section as the crossbar and made from the same type of wood, it would have weighed 72 lbs. For a total of 106 lbs at the very minimum.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
Are you asking or story telling again?
A lot of people believe that Jesus Christ was hung on stake, not a cross, which would have made pulmonary functions much more difficult quicker than had Jesus been hung on a cross. Examine the scarcity of wood issue you so astutely point out in the op, the stake makes more sense too.....
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galrads: Are you asking or story telling again?
A lot of people believe that Jesus Christ was hung on stake, not a cross, which would have made pulmonary functions much more difficult quicker than had Jesus been hung on a cross. Examine the scarcity of wood issue you so astutely point out in the op, the stake makes more sense too.....
A lot of people believe that Jesus Christ was hung on stake, not a cross, which would have made pulmonary functions much more difficult quicker than had Jesus been hung on a cross. Examine the scarcity of wood issue you so astutely point out in the op, the stake makes more sense too.....
The stakes would stay in the same spot all year round and those to be crucified would only have to carry the crossbeam up the hill - which was nice for them.
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Another probable myth is that he was "nailled" to the cross through the palms of his hands. This has been debunked by experiments with cadavers due to there being insufficient strength in the hand to support the weight of a man. The nail would just rip it's way out of the hand between the 2 middle fingers. The people who carried out the task of hanging people from a cross no doubt knew this from experience. The only logical way to "Nail" a body to a cross is through the wrists so the forearm bones would have the strength to bear the weight of the body.
Another little known fact is that nails were prohibitively difficult to make back then and thus extremely expensive to use for such a purpose. Much more likely rope around the wrist was used. Of course nails through the hand sounds so much crueler and infuses much more passionate hatred to the narrative.
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ooby_dooby: Now I would like to offer some facts relating to the alleged crusifixion of christ. It is claimed that this one time carpenter/prophet hauled the very cross he was to be hung from all the way to the top of Calvary hill or mountain. In all the pictures I've ever seen of the crusifixion the cross appeared to be rough hewn wood of about 6-8" square. The length of the crossbar had to be at a minimum 6 feet long to allow material for the nails or rope to tie the wrists whichever was done. We have no idea what kind of wood the cross was made from but being conservative to the maximum extreme let's assume it was made of the lightest wood available at the time in the area where this supposedly took place, namely Cedar. This would mean the crossbar weighed about 34 lbs. The vertical mast extended about a foot above the crossbar and the feet of Christ was shone to be about 4 feet above the ground. The vertical mast of the cross couldn't have merely sat on top of the ground because it would have simply fell over. Therefore it had to be set into a hole in the ground at least 2 1/2 feet to keep it from falling over. This would mean the length of the vertical post had to be a minimum of 13 feet. Assuming it had the same cross section as the crossbar and made from the same type of wood, it would have weighed 72 lbs. For a total of 106 lbs at the very minimum.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
Chrstians/Catholics have the right to believe what ever fits their faith as do other believers in others faiths.
If you are pretty sure about what you believe or not why do you have to ask questions as the above here.
Why would you care what others believe?
or are you Atheist by the grace of your God?
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why jews still waiting for the son of god?
cos they created this one god
a band called Christians stole this god from them
then came the arabs and stole this same god and prophets for themselves.
what we have now. a damn mess
cos they created this one god
a band called Christians stole this god from them
then came the arabs and stole this same god and prophets for themselves.
what we have now. a damn mess
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ChesneyChrist: The stakes would stay in the same spot all year round and those to be crucified would only have to carry the crossbeam up the hill - which was nice for them.
Hey, that's got to be better than being impaled on a stake like Vlad III Prince of Wallachia practiced on others frequently.
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lifeisadream: Chrstians/Catholics have the right to believe what ever fits their faith as do other believers in others faiths.
If you are pretty sure about what you believe or not why do you have to ask questions as the above here.
Why would you care what others believe?
or are you Atheist by the grace of your God?
If you are pretty sure about what you believe or not why do you have to ask questions as the above here.
Why would you care what others believe?
or are you Atheist by the grace of your God?
To begin with, I don't believe anything. I know things which I learned from my own experiences, observations and testing but if a person tells me what they claim is a statement of fact, and it doesn't pass the smell test I will not automatically accept it as fact ie believe it no matter how many times they repeat it
Asking questions is part of the path to the truth. If it's not allowed to question a statement or a story, then it probably isn't true and should therefore be discarded.
Personally, I can't be bothered with other peoples beliefs. I'm merely providing valid questions, evidence, and information which bears on the truth or falsehood of a claim. If that offends you that is your problem not mine.
Believers should actually thank me for giving them facts instead of fairy tales.
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ooby_dooby: Now I would like to offer some facts relating to the alleged crusifixion of christ. It is claimed that this one time carpenter/prophet hauled the very cross he was to be hung from all the way to the top of Calvary hill or mountain. In all the pictures I've ever seen of the crusifixion the cross appeared to be rough hewn wood of about 6-8" square. The length of the crossbar had to be at a minimum 6 feet long to allow material for the nails or rope to tie the wrists whichever was done. We have no idea what kind of wood the cross was made from but being conservative to the maximum extreme let's assume it was made of the lightest wood available at the time in the area where this supposedly took place, namely Cedar. This would mean the crossbar weighed about 34 lbs. The vertical mast extended about a foot above the crossbar and the feet of Christ was shone to be about 4 feet above the ground. The vertical mast of the cross couldn't have merely sat on top of the ground because it would have simply fell over. Therefore it had to be set into a hole in the ground at least 2 1/2 feet to keep it from falling over. This would mean the length of the vertical post had to be a minimum of 13 feet. Assuming it had the same cross section as the crossbar and made from the same type of wood, it would have weighed 72 lbs. For a total of 106 lbs at the very minimum.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.
what is your point Ooby?
We can not prove faith. or rationalize it. some people believe in religions and dogmas, other don't (I don´t believe in any religion).
no point here
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ooby_dooby: To begin with, I don't believe anything. I know things which I learned from my own experiences, observations and testing but if a person tells me what they claim is a statement of fact, and it doesn't pass the smell test I will not automatically accept it as fact ie believe it no matter how many times they repeat it
Asking questions is part of the path to the truth. If it's not allowed to question a statement or a story, then it probably isn't true and should therefore be discarded.
Personally, I can't be bothered with other peoples beliefs. I'm merely providing valid questions, evidence, and information which bears on the truth or falsehood of a claim. If that offends you that is your problem not mine.
Believers should actually thank me for giving them facts instead of fairy tales.
Asking questions is part of the path to the truth. If it's not allowed to question a statement or a story, then it probably isn't true and should therefore be discarded.
Personally, I can't be bothered with other peoples beliefs. I'm merely providing valid questions, evidence, and information which bears on the truth or falsehood of a claim. If that offends you that is your problem not mine.
Believers should actually thank me for giving them facts instead of fairy tales.
Offend me?
Not all Ooby, just trying to avoid useless discussions about faiths because there is not gain in it yet it might lead to promoting hate.
Believers are believers because they believe beyond any explanation science could provide and do not hold your breath expecting to get any
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ChesneyChrist: The stakes would stay in the same spot all year round and those to be crucified would only have to carry the crossbeam up the hill - which was nice for them.
Thank you for adding to the discussion and providing very useful information.
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ooby_dooby: ...
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.....
Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.....
I did remember a piece of a conversation in one of my friends gatherings and I did look for a reference to it.
What is reality?
What is the limit of the human muscles?
It happens that our brains -under normal circumstances- do "restrain" our muscles for different reasons when in fact the human muscles are capable of a much higher force/energy.
"... muscular limits is purely psychological..."
To think about it.
For the resurrection: There have been cases where people were stated as dead but they "revived" later.
For the rising to the sky, I have not idea about it in those times.
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There are persons out there saying that someone took Jesus's place on the cross and that Jesus went on to have children. Life is a wonderland and cornucopia of information which may or may not be true. What an adventure!
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Whether the crucifixion involved a cross or a stake is relatively minor in comparison to multiple absurdities and contradictions in the four gospel accounts.
Under Jewish law of that time executions could not be carried out during Passover and the trial was additionally illegal because the chief priest did not conduct trials, especially those possibly resulting in capital punishment.
Pilate's "custom" of releasing a prisoner at Passover was impossible. The only authority given by Rome to a Roman governor in situations like this was postponement of execution until after the religious festival. Release was out of the question and is included in the gospels for the sole purpose of placing blame for Jesus' death on the Jews. The gospels have Pilate giving in to an unruly mob which is ridiculous in light of Pilate's previous and subsequent history. Josephus tells us that Pilate's method of crowd control was to send his soldiers into the mob and beat them into submission - often killing them. Pilate was eventually recalled to Rome because of his brutality.
The ruling governor's residence and seat of judgment was situated in Caesarea (110km from Jerusalem) which became the Roman capital of Judea in 6AD and remained so for many centuries. The gospel account of the trial of Jesus in Jerusalem with Pontus Pilate present is highly unlikely, if not impossible, and it is hard to see how "when morning was come" the chief priests delivered Jesus to Pontius Pilate (Mt 27:1-2) when Pilate resided 110k away. The logistics make it unlikely that Pilate could have been advised of a possible trial and persuaded to travel from Caesarea to Jerusalem to attend this function just to satisfy the Jews whom he viewed with contempt.
Under Jewish law of that time executions could not be carried out during Passover and the trial was additionally illegal because the chief priest did not conduct trials, especially those possibly resulting in capital punishment.
Pilate's "custom" of releasing a prisoner at Passover was impossible. The only authority given by Rome to a Roman governor in situations like this was postponement of execution until after the religious festival. Release was out of the question and is included in the gospels for the sole purpose of placing blame for Jesus' death on the Jews. The gospels have Pilate giving in to an unruly mob which is ridiculous in light of Pilate's previous and subsequent history. Josephus tells us that Pilate's method of crowd control was to send his soldiers into the mob and beat them into submission - often killing them. Pilate was eventually recalled to Rome because of his brutality.
The ruling governor's residence and seat of judgment was situated in Caesarea (110km from Jerusalem) which became the Roman capital of Judea in 6AD and remained so for many centuries. The gospel account of the trial of Jesus in Jerusalem with Pontus Pilate present is highly unlikely, if not impossible, and it is hard to see how "when morning was come" the chief priests delivered Jesus to Pontius Pilate (Mt 27:1-2) when Pilate resided 110k away. The logistics make it unlikely that Pilate could have been advised of a possible trial and persuaded to travel from Caesarea to Jerusalem to attend this function just to satisfy the Jews whom he viewed with contempt.
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Now, is it possible for a thin man who probably hasn't done manual labor for years other than preaching, wearing a long robe and sandals, in the heat of the middle east, to haul a 106 lb wooden cross up a big hill?
BTW, if it was Pine, which is much more likely because Cedar, being very scarce, wouldn't have been wasted by turning it into a cross to hang criminals, it would have weighed 125 lbs.
But, What the hell, anybody who believes they're gonna come back to life after they drop dead will believe anything.