The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.

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GregKeeganonline today! GregKeegan

Moliagul, Victoria Australia

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
ChesneyChrist
I have hidden your posts because I don't see where or how they relate to the topic of the original post and the discussions concerning it. They are more a political rant. Maybe you can open your own thread in the forums under political discussions, about all of what you say. I am sure that you will get plenty of comments and discussions concerning it all bu this is not the place for it, in my opinion. Apart from one side comment on how you ever get laid, no one has discussed any of the points you make which is another reason I have hidden your comments. If you want to comment then please try to stick with the topic and I'll happily leave the post up for everyone to see. :) I'd just ban you from the thread but if I try to it says it will ban you from all my threads and that is not what I want as I am sure you could give intelligent input given the right topic.
rainbowdream2017online now! rainbowdream2017

Melbourne, Victoria Australia

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
GregKeegan: I can't agree with you here. I choose to love and love unconditionally regardless of who the father is if I am in a relationship. There may be a deeper connection with a child of your own, and I can't say for certain because I have none of my own but logic says that there would be, but the love I show and give to any child in a relationship is the same. Love a mother, love her kids. Anyone who can't go into a relationship with someone who has kids who doesn't take the whole package shouldn't be there in the first place. As for fathering a child from another relationship, that completely depends on the child's wants. Not all dads are good ones and not all mothers want the biological father to be involved because there are plenty of bad biological fathers out there. Regardless, for me anyway, I loved the kids in the relationships I have been in unconditionally and still do and still have contact with some of them because they want it and that has nothing to do with what their mother has done or who she moved onto.
thumbs up That's admiring values. wow applause For a while I haven't find here more impressive statment from the one you just made it ! Just WOWO jow dropping. laugh So proud that a man like you live in 'my backyard.' thumbs up laugh cheering
rainbowdream2017online now! rainbowdream2017

Melbourne, Victoria Australia

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
GregKeegan: By that statement you are saying it would be confusing for the child and frustrating for the biological father if any man, regardless of whether they are in a relationship with the mother or not, has a different way of being a good roll model to the child than the real father. A good roll model is just that to any child, someone who is positive in their life and teaches them things that can enrich their lives , through love and friendship regardless of whether they are involved with the mother or not but it would be hoped that if he were, then his actions and modeling would be something the child can use and help them to become a more mature adult as they transition because of the influence shown through the relationship.
thumbs up Pssss I have to stop somewhere putting tumbs up for all your positive inspirational thoughts on this subject but just letting you know, you deserve all tumbs up ! laugh handshake
ali110online today! ali110

karachi, Sindh Pakistan

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
There are few very special and important things in Mature I like the most ,
They are patience
They have good experience
They are understanding and compromising
wine
rainbowdream2017online now! rainbowdream2017

Melbourne, Victoria Australia

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
ali110: There are few very special and important things in Mature I like the most ,
They are patience
They have good experience
They are understanding and compromising
I like you're respectfulness Ali.wine
In different cultures,there's different sat of values what understanding and compromising means, where clashes of different experiences, values, mentality and belief system, how to bring up child, could be the reason of endless dispute....but one commen thing is, if given unconditional love and care for the well being of child, we can be hopeful and confident that growth of our good deeds /seeds will be fruitful to build up a better human being and the world we live in.wine
KNenagh

Aachen, Kilkenny Ireland

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
GregKeegan: This was not about going back to being tribal and taking on the brutal practices of some of those ceremonies and societies. It was meant to open the discussion of the possibility of initiation for our time, where a young adult, after their initiation, sees them self as equal to their other adult peers even if they don't have the wisdom and knowledge that a older adult has. We see many forms of initiation and ritual in religion and other organisations and I went through them being raised catholic where at different ages the different sacraments became available to me, not that I follow that faith now, but apart from being able to take communion, it meant nothing to me or how I felt about myself or my standing in acceptance from anyone else.
Don't you think or even consider that a modernized version of initiation, for our time, could benefit the transition of our young into the understandings of what it is to be a mature adult within our society or are you of the opinion that it is best to just let nature take it's coarse and not guide them but just let them go and stumble into adulthood?


Maybe you haven't gotten one of the points I made.

Parents should be the ones guiding them into adulthood. When I look at the young adults in my family, the ones from a stable family, brought up with rules and obligations are well adjusted, happy and productive members of society. The ones where parents broke up, no one wanted to be the bad parent and say no but kissed their kids asses and didn't insist on rules and contribution workwise to the household etc. are the ones struggling. I think these kids will get a major shock when they join the workforce and see that they are not the centre of universe. More importantly, these are the ones struggling with their life and just talking about the kids I witnessed growing up in my family, these are the ones unhappy and simply not able to deal with the normal pressures of life as a young adult - this is a direct result of their parents actions (or lack of it).

This has always been the way with kids that aren't brought up in a responsible way. The problem these days is imo, that people that were brought up with rules and obligations themselves don't see this as necessary, and just let their kids run havoc. Whatever they didn't have as kids or experienced as tough when growing up themselves, is something they won't insist on and maybe that's one of the reasons some kids are struggling (or are simply spoiled brats).
ali110online today! ali110

karachi, Sindh Pakistan

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
rainbowdream2017: I like you're respectfulness Ali.
In different cultures,there's different sat of values what understanding and compromising means, where clashes of different experiences, values, mentality and belief system, how to bring up child, could be the reason of endless dispute....but one commen thing is, if given unconditional love and care for the well being of child, we can be hopeful and confident that growth of our good deeds /seeds will be fruitful to build up a better human being and the world we live in.
Hi rainbow , thank you for good words wave

Completely agreed with you , it depends on culture , belief system experiences as well as parents treatment to the childeren .along with all these things the mental stability improves with age and usually it gives good positive results and it creates a good atmosphere for livingwine

Still single ?/grin laugh
jac_the_gripperonline today! jac_the_gripper

..., South Glamorgan, Wales UK

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
The issue I have with your post, KN, is linked with my regret that a handbook didn't come out with the placenta. laugh

It's easy to judge and criticise parents, but most do their best with the resources they have available to them.

Those resources may be cognitive, practical, emotional, their own role models, their own experiences of unconditional love, whatever.

Unfortunately, not everyone has resources in abundance. I think it's unfair to judge people for that.

Maybe society has a role to play too. I like the idea that it takes a village to raise a child.
KNenagh

Aachen, Kilkenny Ireland

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
jac_the_gripper: The issue I have with your post, KN, is linked with my regret that a handbook didn't come out with the placenta.

It's easy to judge and criticise parents, but most do their best with the resources they have available to them.

Those resources may be cognitive, practical, emotional, their own role models, their own experiences of unconditional love, whatever.

Unfortunately, not everyone has resources in abundance. I think it's unfair to judge people for that.

Maybe society has a role to play too. I like the idea that it takes a village to raise a child.


Jac, I'm aware of that. I know that my parents did their best and they did what they thought was best for us at the time - mightn't have been always 100%, but we survived and looking around, had a pretty idyllic childhood. What I do admire about my mum is that she reflected on the shitty behaviour of her own mum and deliberately had a very different relationship to her husband (and her children) than her own role models (without a lot of support btw.)

I was very close to the kids around home when they were growing up. I do know their parents did their best and what they though was right for their kids, but didn't take any suggestions from their grandparents and others on board.
Nevertheless, they and the kids got a lot of support from everyone at home. Things have settled a bit with the kids and I hope they will find their way in life. They will always have support not only from their parents, but other family members as well. If I criticise their parents it's not to slag them off, it is out of concern for the kids.

My partner has a toddler which spends a lot of time with us. He did a lot of reflecting on his own upbringing, what was good and what wasn't and applies this. He also takes advise on board and does a great job.

I still think that the main responsibility in raising kids lies with the parents. Yes, it doesn't come with a handbook. Problem is that a lot of today's messed up adults are the result of bad parenting and this will continue to be the case.

I simply do not wish that on any kid.
Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
One2note: That's fine, if the real father is not in the picture.
Imagine, how confusing it would be for the child, if the real father was, & contradicting the parenting style of the adopted parent, and how frustrating it would be for that partner!

Why would it be confusing for the children?
If the parenting style of the adoptive parent is contradictive one has to assume that it's with some agreement of their partner.
Otherwise their parenting role would undoubtedly be limited by their partner.
There should be little confusion for the children, different households have different rules.
Regardless of there being adoptive parents or not.
Regardless of there being adoptive parents or not it can be frustrating for the other parent.
There is more than one way to skin a cat and unless you're a sole single parent having to deal with different ways and angles of approach will at times be frustrating and confusing.
(not suggesting being a sole single parent doesn't have their own set of frustrations and confusions)
Kids want/need clear rules. It's actually quite simple.
Household A they can have their dinner in front of the TV, household B they have dinner at the table.
Household A keeps their nose out of household B and vice versa
Even within one household there always will be different rules.
Kids find their parents different number quickly...
Why shouldn't the real father not be in the picture?
Are you saying that there can only be one father figure/role model? Too confusing for the children?(which it isn't) or is it to stroke the biological fathers ego?
GregKeeganonline today! GregKeegan

Moliagul, Victoria Australia

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
Another thing that I think is partially to blame for a lot of the problems of our young is that they rarely get to spend much time with the elderly. Western society regularly put their old in homes and only visit occasionally but that isn't so in more traditional societies and a lot of Asian countries. Our old have loads of life experience and wisdom that they have accumulated just through living and we as a whole,not only our young, can greatly benefit from that if we spend enough time with them to gain some of that imparted wisdom
In more traditional societies and a lot of Asian countries, the old are both respected and valued as a important part of society and the upbringing of the young. Somewhere we have lost something as we no longer anchorage our young to spend a lot of time with these people or us for that matter as well and we are all missing out by shutting them away in homes and not gleaning every bit of wisdom from them that they are willing to share.
It is sad really.
jac_the_gripperonline today! jac_the_gripper

..., South Glamorgan, Wales UK

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
I agree with all you say, KN, except when I think of the people I come into contact with who appear to have little self-, or other-awareness. The ability to reflect on the issues you mentioned would be one of those resources I listed above which not all people have. I suspect it's that many people simply don't know how.

I agree the primary responsibility of raising a child is, and should be, with the parents, or guardians, but I'm not adverse to other tools which might help, rather than hinder.

For the time our children are in school, I believe the staff are in loco parentis. I sometimes found myself dismayed at the culture of school and what was being taught.

Personally, I'd like to see emotional development being tended to with as much focus as academic. It's an environment with a lot of interpersonal interaction and learning is best served by immediate, rather than delayed knowledge of results. It's an environment where the journey towards self-actualisation is ripe for the picking, and yet the fruit is largely left to rot. How can we expect maturity from young people under those circumstances?

How can we expect all parents to reflect upon their interpersonal relationships if they have no experience, or knowledge of that?
ChesneyChristonline today! ChesneyChrist

Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
GregKeegan: Prior to the industrial revolution and still held in many societies and tribal communities today,children at around about the age or puberty or just after, were taken by the adults of that society, male for boys and female for girls, and initiated into adulthood. After that ceremony, the participants were expected too and for the most part did, behave as adults within that society and took on the responsibilities of being adult without question. This is something we lost and now, kids seem to stumble into adulthood and somewhere between the age of 20 and 30, decide that they must be adult now because of their responsibilities and what life is to them but there is no defining moment where they are recognised amongst their peers as equals as adults and I think we need that, after all, it has been a part of mankind's, no offence ladies with calling it mankind, just a term, existence since long before recorded history. It is almost a genetic marker in the history of our species where our young step from childhood into adulthood and it has only been in the last couple of hundred or so years that this ritual has ceased to happen or in western or "Developed" countries and societies.
I've run out of characters, more to come in my next comment. :)


Collective ritual sacrifice is the binding ingredient. Equal adults together plus someone you all care about dies. It's not possible to move beyond youth without paying attention to death.
ChesneyChristonline today! ChesneyChrist

Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK

Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
ChesneyChrist: Collective ritual sacrifice is the binding ingredient. Equal adults together plus someone you all care about dies. It's not possible to move beyond youth without paying attention to death.


Morbid and mundane thing growing up, that's why I suspect people are rather bored with it.
Re: The lack of mature adults, both male and female as opposed to being adult in western society & why.
jac_the_gripper: ..........

I'm now making the first tentative steps towards a relationship with my two step-grandsons whilst awaiting the arrival of my biological grandson to whom I will be a grandparent, rather than a co-parent.
................

Unless I've missed something, you sneaked that one in like a grandmaster.
Congrats for the young couple !yay applauseyay
Peanut Mk2 on the way for Granny Gripper
Enjoy
tip hat
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