Jury Service... (54)
jac_the_gripper: What if someone's DNA was at the scene of a crime, but they were there before the crime took place?
That was one of the issues with Amanda Knox's flatmate being murdered. Knox's DNA was everywhere and the Italian police were found not to have followed forensic procedure. The question became, was she involved, or was evidence due to contamination?
How sure would you have to be to convict?
That was one of the issues with Amanda Knox's flatmate being murdered. Knox's DNA was everywhere and the Italian police were found not to have followed forensic procedure. The question became, was she involved, or was evidence due to contamination?
How sure would you have to be to convict?
Stay tuned to the never ending saga of Jac_the_Grippers ....Episodes of a 80% human 20%
Please join in weekly to uncover the psychological profiles of the Guilted and maybe not so Guilted. And thanks to this weeks special guess, the Mol, whose insight into using something other than human instincts is a formidable topic in next weeks episode.......and many courtrooms throughout the land....
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jac_the_gripper: At about the same time as Karanjit Alawalia went down for life there was a chap tried at Winchester Crown Court who got 6 months for murdering his partner. I remember my dad coming home for his lunch (he worked there) with a face like thunder over that one.
Karanjit was a victim of domestic violence. Asian women often have a difficult time escaping because of informative family networks and other cultural issues. Her husband kept finding her even when she was in secret refuge.
She splashed petrol on his feet in an attempt to burn them so he wouldn't be able to chase her. It didn't work as she planned and he went completely up in flames.
The chap who got 6 months? His partner put the ketchup in the wrong place on the dinner table. It was deemed an understandable reaction.
Incidentally, I think it was Judge Pickles who revoked the law on provocation and I think it was the day before the Guilford Four were released.
Who put the Guildford Four away?
I think it might have been Judge Pickles.
Maybe I've got that wrong.
Karanjit was a victim of domestic violence. Asian women often have a difficult time escaping because of informative family networks and other cultural issues. Her husband kept finding her even when she was in secret refuge.
She splashed petrol on his feet in an attempt to burn them so he wouldn't be able to chase her. It didn't work as she planned and he went completely up in flames.
The chap who got 6 months? His partner put the ketchup in the wrong place on the dinner table. It was deemed an understandable reaction.
Incidentally, I think it was Judge Pickles who revoked the law on provocation and I think it was the day before the Guilford Four were released.
Who put the Guildford Four away?
I think it might have been Judge Pickles.
Maybe I've got that wrong.
I don't know which judge.
But it was public opinion more than anything.
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What was public opinion more than anything?
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jac_the_gripper: What was public opinion more than anything?
They were tried and condemned by public opinion rather than on hard evidence.
People wanted someone, anyone, to go down for the bombing. They just happened to be available.
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mollybaby: They were tried and condemned by public opinion rather than on hard evidence.
People wanted someone, anyone, to go down for the bombing. They just happened to be available.
Reminds me of the metoo man hating mob going on in modern societyPeople wanted someone, anyone, to go down for the bombing. They just happened to be available.
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I don't think the public wanted someone, anyone to go down for the bombing, Molly.
I can't say exactly, I was very young at the time and my perception has no doubt been altered by time, but I'm pretty sure that's not quite accurate.
My perception of that time is that there was a lot of fear. I lived in England and the IRA were bad, scary people who went round killing people in horrible ways for no apparent reason.
The English however, were reasonable, trustworthy people who were trying to stop the baddies.
No doubt my perception was influenced by my German mother who was likely more fearful than most and would have wanted it to all go away for slightly different reasons than most.
I don't think public opinion wanted someone, anyone. I think people wanted the horrible stuff to go away. I think the people trusted that the British legal system, the envy of the world, had got those responsible on trial. I think the people wanted those responsible.
I do think, however, the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of being Irish.
I can't say exactly, I was very young at the time and my perception has no doubt been altered by time, but I'm pretty sure that's not quite accurate.
My perception of that time is that there was a lot of fear. I lived in England and the IRA were bad, scary people who went round killing people in horrible ways for no apparent reason.
The English however, were reasonable, trustworthy people who were trying to stop the baddies.
No doubt my perception was influenced by my German mother who was likely more fearful than most and would have wanted it to all go away for slightly different reasons than most.
I don't think public opinion wanted someone, anyone. I think people wanted the horrible stuff to go away. I think the people trusted that the British legal system, the envy of the world, had got those responsible on trial. I think the people wanted those responsible.
I do think, however, the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six were found guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of being Irish.
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seaworthy: Stay tuned to the never ending saga of Jac_the_Grippers ....Episodes of a 80% human 20% Please join in weekly to uncover the psychological profiles of the Guilted and maybe not so Guilted. And thanks to this weeks special guess, the Mol, whose insight into using something other than human instincts is a formidable topic in next weeks episode.......and many courtrooms throughout the land....
Now look here ... if you can't 'Do the Decent Thing' and agree with everything said then ...
GO TO JAIL ...
DO NOT PASS GO
DO NOT COLLECT $200
REMAIN IN JAIL UNTIL You throw three double sixes, gain a Chance or Community Chest Card and Both Sets of Great Grandparents are available to collect you and provide suitable secure accomodation for your 20 years probation and supervision period !
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jac_the_gripper: If you were 80% positive that someone had committed a murder and only 20% not sure that he did, would you send him to prison based on that percentage?
What percentage would you need to be satisfied that someone was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
What percentage would you need to be satisfied that someone was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
I would base it on the solid evidence presented. However, there is always circumstantial evidence to fill the gaps!
Circumstantial evidence seems to be a one fits all solution in criminal cases where there is no solid evidence and I sometimes have a great doubt when there are convictions based solely on circumstantial evidence......
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mollybaby: Of course I remember the Guilford 4, and the Bermingham 6 as well, as well as other individuals who were wrongly accused.
That is why I am trying to figure out, can you ever be 100% certain, unless you saw the crime with your own eyes
That is why I am trying to figure out, can you ever be 100% certain, unless you saw the crime with your own eyes
Seldom judjes see a crime with their own eyes,
Usually to convict someone, they have to be 100% sure,
in other words "beyont reasonable doupt".
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jac_the_gripper: If you were 80% positive that someone had committed a murder and only 20% not sure that he did, would you send him to prison based on that percentage?
What percentage would you need to be satisfied that someone was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
What percentage would you need to be satisfied that someone was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?
seems my percentage meter is not working , I do understand that in certain cases we have doubts ,dilemmas but its kinda unnatural to express them in percentages ...
Then it comes to was that murder, in my personal opinion justified ,or not -please dont tell me that a murder is a murder ...
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I agree Dedo, it is unnatural to express doubt, or otherwise in percentages.
It comes from an off the cuff experiment carried out by the British/American lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, the founder of the human rights organisation Reprieve. I saw the clip a long time ago, so I can't remember it exactly, but he presented a questionnaire to a number of people asking this question.
The people he asked were former jurors from a particular case, I think, and some other people involved including the judge.
Some responses were very low near the 50% mark and I think the judge put 95%.
The trial it followed was a murder trial in the US and I think our Clive had serious doubts about the guilt of the man condemned to death.
The judge saying 95% sort of equates to her being okay with 1 in 20 people executed being innocent.
Should we be using the term 'beyond reasonable doubt' if it's possible that it can be interpreted such that some doubt is reasonable?
It comes from an off the cuff experiment carried out by the British/American lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, the founder of the human rights organisation Reprieve. I saw the clip a long time ago, so I can't remember it exactly, but he presented a questionnaire to a number of people asking this question.
The people he asked were former jurors from a particular case, I think, and some other people involved including the judge.
Some responses were very low near the 50% mark and I think the judge put 95%.
The trial it followed was a murder trial in the US and I think our Clive had serious doubts about the guilt of the man condemned to death.
The judge saying 95% sort of equates to her being okay with 1 in 20 people executed being innocent.
Should we be using the term 'beyond reasonable doubt' if it's possible that it can be interpreted such that some doubt is reasonable?
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I was a juror in a murder trial a number of years ago where we acquitted the accused unanimously. Our reason was that the Garda (Irish police) had made such a mess of the chain of evidence we could not safely convict. That was reasonable doubt.
I always wonder if the accused was actually guilty, but as Rumpole used to say; "Better a hundred guilty go free than one innocent hang!"
I always wonder if the accused was actually guilty, but as Rumpole used to say; "Better a hundred guilty go free than one innocent hang!"
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Re: Jury Service...
1st and last time ...6 days ... never do that again
1st and last time ...6 days ... never do that again
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Karanjit was a victim of domestic violence. Asian women often have a difficult time escaping because of informative family networks and other cultural issues. Her husband kept finding her even when she was in secret refuge.
She splashed petrol on his feet in an attempt to burn them so he wouldn't be able to chase her. It didn't work as she planned and he went completely up in flames.
The chap who got 6 months? His partner put the ketchup in the wrong place on the dinner table. It was deemed an understandable reaction.
Incidentally, I think it was Judge Pickles who revoked the law on provocation and I think it was the day before the Guilford Four were released.
Who put the Guildford Four away?
I think it might have been Judge Pickles.
Maybe I've got that wrong.