How long are you going to wait... (65)
Let_Us: If YOU don't see danger and challenge in TODAY'S society/communities, then
#1. You DON'T have your eyes open!
#2. You have NEVER examined/studied history.
#3. You're NOT observant.
#4. You HAVEN'T LEARNED to "THINK FOR YOURSELF"!
I DON'T THINK I have to list ANY more!
The streets of the world are MORE dangerous to the AVERAGE citizen, TODAY, than they've EVER been! And it only going to get WORSE, BEFORE it gets BETTER! (IF it ever "gets better"!)
But, to state your thesis about rising up against GREAT "odds", let's use the CLASSIC version! From Lord Macauley, in/from "The Lays of Ancient Rome". Off the top of my head
"For how can men die better
Than when facing fearful odds
For the ashes of their fathers
And the temples of their Gods"
I doubt that anyone would sucrofice their life for man's movement or feminism or political correctness ....but for Freedom YES !#1. You DON'T have your eyes open!
#2. You have NEVER examined/studied history.
#3. You're NOT observant.
#4. You HAVEN'T LEARNED to "THINK FOR YOURSELF"!
I DON'T THINK I have to list ANY more!
The streets of the world are MORE dangerous to the AVERAGE citizen, TODAY, than they've EVER been! And it only going to get WORSE, BEFORE it gets BETTER! (IF it ever "gets better"!)
But, to state your thesis about rising up against GREAT "odds", let's use the CLASSIC version! From Lord Macauley, in/from "The Lays of Ancient Rome". Off the top of my head
"For how can men die better
Than when facing fearful odds
For the ashes of their fathers
And the temples of their Gods"
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Kaylana04: Arrogance is the word that comes to mind.
"Too highly" would be a comparison with another standard, be it higher or lower than the other party.
I'm pondering: Where is the balance between sacrifice, self-inflicted suffering (as taught in most religions) and the ability to enjoy 'the best' in life without feeling guilty?
"Too highly" would be a comparison with another standard, be it higher or lower than the other party.
I'm pondering: Where is the balance between sacrifice, self-inflicted suffering (as taught in most religions) and the ability to enjoy 'the best' in life without feeling guilty?
Can I say it THIS way, for you, KL?
Arrogance describes when the person, themself, thinks that they are SUPERIOR to MOST, if not ALL, others!
In the case of MOST "superior people, the THOUGHT of superiority NEVER occurs! Because they're NOT comparing themselves, to OTHERS! Only to the job, before them!
You mention "TOO highly" being a comparison against ANOTHER standard. If you're comparing "arrogance" and "TOO highly", #1, "TOO highly" is an action, whereas, "Arrogance" is a "thing". #2. As you say, "TOO highly" is most often used in comparison's of things, whereas "arrogance" is ONLY used, in comparisons of men!
Arrogance derives from a person being obsessed with the ranking of men! It has NOTHING to do with a person's ABILITIES! But EVERYTHING to do with his RANKING of himself. HIGH ranking, without COMMENSURATE ability, is the DEFINITION of "arrogance"!
And one needs not really worry about arrogance! Because, while an arrogant person MAY cause much damage, it will, AT WORST, be for a short time! Because arrogance has an INBREED problem! And that problem ALWAYS leads to OVER-REACHING! Arrogance will ALWAYS overpower caution, in the individual person, sooner or later! An ARROGANT person will ALWAYS "over-reach" himself! It's just a matter of WHEN! NOT "if".
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rainbowdream2017: I doubt that anyone would sucrofice their life for man's movement or feminism or political correctness ....but for Freedom YES !
Why do you doubt it, Rainy? MANY people already HAVE! It may not have been done intentionally. I doubt that that was their desire or intention. But think about every protester for almost any cause. How many of them have died, in those protest? To many for us to count in a day, I believe. It doesn't matter whether they were coal miners striking for better pay and working conditions. Or someone marching in an anti-war protest march. They were ALL putting their lives on the line, for the dignity of man. How can you say you doubt that people would do such things?
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Modern society discourages 'difference' and frowns severely upon 'excellence' which means that those who DO recognise some value in themselves will, almost inevitably, be cut down ... savagely by the most ignorant, and 'by a thousand small cuts' by whatever '...ocracy' is currently ruling and directing 'society'.
I'm thinking sheep and shepherds ... shepherd really do NOT like sheep who think for themselves so those sheep are the first become chops!
Maybe that's what the red and blue mail box stickers are about ...
I'm thinking sheep and shepherds ... shepherd really do NOT like sheep who think for themselves so those sheep are the first become chops!
Maybe that's what the red and blue mail box stickers are about ...
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Let_Us: Why do you doubt it, Rainy? MANY people already HAVE! It may not have been done intentionally. I doubt that that was their desire or intention. But think about every protester for almost any cause. How many of them have died, in those protest? To many for us to count in a day, I believe. It doesn't matter whether they were coal miners striking for better pay and working conditions. Or someone marching in an anti-war protest march. They were ALL putting their lives on the line, for the dignity of man. How can you say you doubt that people would do such things?
My disappointment is focused more on consequences of division between a man and women movement, distraction of family values and unity.
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"""waiting for Godot""
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Let_Us: KL, I THINK you're asking the WRONG question! Or maybe EXAMINING the wrong word, would be a better way to say it. I read KP's comment, and I THINK I understand. At least I EMPATHIZE with a VERSION of her thought! But IF I were to change ANYTHING in the quote, it WOULDN'T be "demand"! I would change "FOR" yourself, to "OF" yourself! JMO
That is how I read it “of” instead of “for”.
How can we demand of society if we don’t demand of “us” first
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rainbowdream2017: I doubt that anyone would sucrofice their life for man's movement or feminism or political correctness ....but for Freedom YES !
Emily Davison Died for Women’s Right to Vote
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mykingdomforanam: In school they taught us to be so quiet we could hear a pin drop, sit still, stand in line, walk in formation, speak only when spoken to, unless we raise our hands and are called on, get naked on command, wear matching uniforms, and bend over for whack from any adult holding a board without a question, they taught us things they knew were lies and lowered our grades when we knew the truth...
ahhhhh.... but it's great to have transferable skills.....
(sorry mykingdom, teasing you)
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rainbowdream2017: It's uplifting when people share alike interest, similar respect and admiration for each other meaningful thoughts and warm heart to care....
I don´t know anybody like that
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Bnaughty: I don´t know anybody like that
With bad boys that works different lol.When you find the sensation of falling into a forign abyss... in 'xy' / her presence, it may awaken other sleeping qualities ....like empathy and compassion that connect you with people alike...
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DoubleFantasy: Emily Davison Died for Women’s Right to Vote
Thank you. I never doubt past sucroffices for Women Righ to Vote - where socialist coutries expected from women to equally participate in society ...but for a long time we past that and can't live on past achivements, without looking at present troubling time - that feminists avoid to confront some important issues in society...
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rainbowdream2017: With bad boys that works different lol.
When you find the sensation of falling into a forign abyss... in 'xy' / her presence, it may awaken other sleeping qualities ....like empathy and compassion that connect you with people alike...
When you find the sensation of falling into a forign abyss... in 'xy' / her presence, it may awaken other sleeping qualities ....like empathy and compassion that connect you with people alike...
It awakens something down below but it´s not compassion or empathy
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Bnaughty: It awakens something down below but it´s not compassion or empathy
I thought so.Lost course.
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Are there any Greeks out there who could help me find an original version of Epictetus' speech??
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
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MsContessa: Similar to meeting the message of your quote:
I encourage others to create an
“I love Me” mirror
...
“Deep within me there is an infinite source of love,
ideas, inspiration, creativity and purpose.
I just need to have the courage to look within.”
If you say it often enough it will give you the courage to demand, of you, the best for yourself.....
I encourage others to create an
“I love Me” mirror
...
“Deep within me there is an infinite source of love,
ideas, inspiration, creativity and purpose.
I just need to have the courage to look within.”
If you say it often enough it will give you the courage to demand, of you, the best for yourself.....
MsContessa,
(I hope that you see this...)
You bring up an important notion- that of infinite resources.
We are taught that there is a scarcity of things, which then produces fear.
Not enough time, not enough love, not enough money, etc...
This fear then affects our actions and reactions.
I encourage those around me to understand the concept of "plenty".
My tango instructor keeps repeating to me, "Don't rush! The place has already been prepared for you. You simply have to move into it. There is plenty of time!"
Thanks for sharing!!
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MsContessa: Basically the same reasoning. Adults are motivated not from reward
or punishment but from within! That is why we must demand of ourselves!
or punishment but from within! That is why we must demand of ourselves!
Your comment made me think of Alfie Kohn's books, "Punished by Rewards" and "No Contest: a case against competition." Have you read either of these? Totally changed my teaching style - from extrinsic to developing intrinsic motivation.
Thanks again!!
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Kaylana04: Are there any Greeks out there who could help me find an original version of Epictetus' speech??
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
I think more likely ""of yourself"
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If YOU don't see danger and challenge in TODAY'S society/communities, then
#1. You DON'T have your eyes open!
#2. You have NEVER examined/studied history.
#3. You're NOT observant.
#4. You HAVEN'T LEARNED to "THINK FOR YOURSELF"!
I DON'T THINK I have to list ANY more!
The streets of the world are MORE dangerous to the AVERAGE citizen, TODAY, than they've EVER been! And it only going to get WORSE, BEFORE it gets BETTER! (IF it ever "gets better"!)
But, to state your thesis about rising up against GREAT "odds", let's use the CLASSIC version! From Lord Macauley, in/from "The Lays of Ancient Rome". Off the top of my head
"For how can men die better
Than when facing fearful odds
For the ashes of their fathers
And the temples of their Gods"