How long are you going to wait... (65)
Kaylana04: Are there any Greeks out there who could help me find an original version of Epictetus' speech??
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
I'm curious about the opening line if the translation should be "for yourself" or "of yourself".
In my opinion, there is a big difference.
(Is it time to start learning Greek??)
“How long are you going to wait before you demand the best for yourself and in no instance bypass the discriminations of reason? You have been given the principles that you ought to endorse, and you have endorsed them. What kind of teacher, then, are you still waiting for in order to refer your self-improvement to him? You are no longer a boy, but a full-grown man.
If you are careless and lazy now and keep putting things off and always deferring the day after which you will attend to yourself, you will not notice that you are making no progress, but you will live and die as someone quite ordinary.
From now on, then, resolve to live as a grown-up who is making progress, and make whatever you think best a law that you never set aside. And whenever you encounter anything that is difficult or pleasurable, or highly or lowly regarded, remember that the contest is now: you are at the Olympic Games, you cannot wait any longer, and that your progress is wrecked or preserved by a single day and a single event. That is how Socrates fulfilled himself by attending to nothing except reason in everything he encountered. And you, although you are not yet a Socrates, should live as someone who at least wants to be a Socrates.”
? Epictetus
It's PLEASANT to see someone doing their homework!
Just thought I'd toss that on you. As a sort of encouragement to farther study, and an interdiction to complacency. It's encouraging to see that OTHER people have a DESIRE to "know", beyond what they're being told.
But I can't help you. MY Greek is limited to a familiarity with the alphabet, not the language. My advice would be to contact a Greek University, as they would be a source of Epictetus' writings, in Greek. As the de facto language of the net is English, I tend to think that searching the web will most;y provide you with only translations of the original works. Which is OBVIOUSLY NOT what you're interested in.
But I might also point THIS out. That "demand(ing) the best (OF) yourself", is, in FACT, "demand(ing) the best FOR yourself", although it would be easy for most people to "read" the two differently. Demanding the best FOR yourself is NOT necessarily demanding the best OF yourself. But demanding the best OF yourself, IS (to me) demanding the best FOR yourself! (But THAT is a philosophical question.) But understanding language CAN BE a chore! Even for me, whose made an avocation out of language, words, and the study of their usage and misuse. If you bother to read my posts, you'll notice that a lot of my complaints are based in trying to understand what people mean, from what they've said. Or pointing out that what they've said ISN'T necessarily what they were TRYING to say. Maybe, sometime, I'll send you my little discourse on "Language". But it won't fit within the limits imposed on messages, herein. So, unless you're willing to deal with multiple messages, I can't send it, here.
Anyway, KL, you keep on studying/learning! That's what life SHOULD be! A "learning" experience. But then, I tend to look at EVERYTHING from a philosophical standpoint. But I APPLAUD your efforts! Go, girl! Go!
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Kaylana04: MsContessa,
(I hope that you see this...)
You bring up an important notion- that of infinite resources.
We are taught that there is a scarcity of things, which then produces fear.
Not enough time, not enough love, not enough money, etc...
This fear then affects our actions and reactions.
I encourage those around me to understand the concept of "plenty".
My tango instructor keeps repeating to me, "Don't rush! The place has already been prepared for you. You simply have to move into it. There is plenty of time!"
Thanks for sharing!!
(I hope that you see this...)
You bring up an important notion- that of infinite resources.
We are taught that there is a scarcity of things, which then produces fear.
Not enough time, not enough love, not enough money, etc...
This fear then affects our actions and reactions.
I encourage those around me to understand the concept of "plenty".
My tango instructor keeps repeating to me, "Don't rush! The place has already been prepared for you. You simply have to move into it. There is plenty of time!"
Thanks for sharing!!
I'm SO GLAD to read your enunciation of this conceptual axiom! It's nice to know that other people share this concept! So I encourage it, whenever I encounter it. And it's BEYOND "great" that you've incorporated it into your teaching "style"! I WISH that my teachers had understood such a concept! You MUST BE an outstanding teacher! Teaching CAN BE such a frustrating task. But, by using this concept, you're providing your students with a NEW view of life, and so, a new REASON for learning. That's the basic problem, with teaching, as far as I'm concerned. People DON'T PERCEIVE a NEED to know anything BEYOND what they already know! And so, have NO interest or motivation to study and learn anything. They're convinced they ALREADY know all they need to know, to live their lives. As Frank Herbert put it, in his "Dune" series, "Fear is the great mind killer!" Fear is what keeps us from exploring our "possibilities". "Fear" is the beginning/origin of "complacency".
You mention a couple of books (with INTRIGUING titles) in one of your other posts! I look forward to familiarizing myself with them! Thanks! ------ This thread is Archived ------
Let_Us: I'm SO GLAD to read your enunciation of this conceptual axiom! It's nice to know that other people share this concept! Thanks!
You are most Welcome!
And Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. And, yes, I do read your posts.
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Bogart_1960: "Our life is what our thoughts make it." - Marcus Aurelius. . That answers your questions. all.
btw, Stoicism philosophy. Regarding Epictetus, read the long version. let it sink slowly. looks like you might need... enjoy
btw, Stoicism philosophy. Regarding Epictetus, read the long version. let it sink slowly. looks like you might need... enjoy
Oh, I did enjoy that translation!! Much better than the one I posted above. Thank you for sharing it. What was your source? I know I would enjoy more by that translator as it seems deeper and more connected.
Stoicism - a valuable way of life.
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Thanks Chris!!