What would be great is if previous arguments from other threads or the past..would not go onto new threads and only the subject matter was concentrated on...everyone falls out from time to time, but why carry that into a new discussion...she can hate me all she likes, but it make's not difference to the subject matter we are discussing and it don't bother me if she does...I am not holding onto any bad feelings...I am just looking to participate in a thread discussion...I don't hate her or anyone else...
Kaylana04: Most arguments result from a form of division: two people disagreeing over a specific topic.
"I am a great lover of these processes of division and generalizations.... And if I find any man who is able to see unity and plurality in nature, him I follow, and walk in his step as if he were a god" (Socrates).
Division deepens insight and helps us to create order.
I have written before about classification several times on this forum. Allow me to delve deeper. My hope is that some of us can see that what we are quibbling over is simply how we define and classify the divisions we see.....
If they were to talk about the same thing (dissecting and analyzing the definition versus the extension of all who are included in the group), I believe the two opposing sides would see that they actually agree with each other more than initially believed at the onset.
Peace!
Is anyone else able to see the unity and plurality in the dialogue division?
Is anyone gaining a deeper insight and able to create more order in their thought process?
LeeCharming: What would be great is if previous arguments from other threads or the past..would not go onto new threads and only the subject matter was concentrated on...everyone falls out from time to time, but why carry that into a new discussion...
Lee, This could go either way. Truth be told, we learn about people's character through the collection of their words and thoughts. And yes, it is true that we all fail and deserve a fresh start. No one can be blamed for wanting to do what is right.
I personally am not one to hang onto a grudge. It's a waste of time and energy, in my opinion.
LeeCharming: she can hate me all she likes, but it make's not difference to the subject matter we are discussing and it don't bother me if she does...I am not holding onto any bad feelings...I am just looking to participate in a thread discussion...I don't hate her or anyone else...
We are all free individual thinkers. "Hate" is a strong word to use. One should be careful in using it as it invokes a series of strong emotions.
Kaylana04: Lee, This could go either way. Truth be told, we learn about people's character through the collection of their words and thoughts. And yes, it is true that we all fail and deserve a fresh start. No one can be blamed for wanting to do what is right.
I personally am not one to hang onto a grudge. It's a waste of time and energy, in my opinion.
We are all free individual thinkers. "Hate" is a strong word to use. One should be careful in using it as it invokes a series of strong emotions.
In the past, when I was attracted to a woman's physical appearance I would tend to keep quiet, listen and nod, but now I want more, than just a beautiful woman, because she has to also be compatible with my way of thinking, or it would be arguments everytime and that's a turn off to me. Yes would I like her to debate with me, but not be opposite ends to my opinion...maybe a little bit of give and take...I will have to stay clear of stubborn women, though, because my ex was too stubborn and made life difficult...I think we should learn lessons from previous relationships and figure out what we are willing to accept and not accept
Maybe dislike instead of hate would be more productive? I would hold grudges, because life is too short.
LeeCharming: In the past, when I was attracted to a woman's physical appearance I would tend to keep quiet, listen and nod, but now I want more, than just a beautiful woman, because she has to also be compatible with my way of thinking, or it would be arguments everytime and that's a turn off to me. Yes would I like her to debate with me, but not be opposite ends to my opinion...maybe a little bit of give and take...I will have to stay clear of stubborn women, though, because my ex was too stubborn and made life difficult...I think we should learn lessons from previous relationships and figure out what we are willing to accept and not accept
Maybe dislike instead of hate would be more productive? I would not hold grudges, because life is too short.
deviant_slice: Be a sport and tell us where you put the body.
We have a different sense of humour and I would not say, that to another...after they shared their thoughts on a previous relationship...to answer your question...she is alive and well...when the relationship ended I don't not want to contact again...I have seen her, but we don't speak anymore...I have moved on
I don't see any arguments on here that are even worth the time and effort... Two sides wearing horse blinders don't make a fair argument... Stamping your feet on the same spot aver and over again won't lead to a progress... Theory and reality are two very, very difficult things... I personally don't trust people who base their believes on that (theory) ground...
LeeCharming: The only thing about the feature, that is a bit odd is..being able to vote for yourself what would one do if they chose the thumbs down by accident
I chose it on purpose a couple times...it didn't hurt...I don't think my rep suffered any and I wasn't stoned because of it.....
I think being able to agree to disagree is the best thing about a debate....debate is good and shouldn't have any emotion attached while adding points to back-up a persons stance...arguing comes with emotions attached and a right and wrong component and tries to prove the other person wrong....its circular in that nobody is ever going to change the other persons mind.....agreeing to disagree makes room for each person being entitled to their own opinion no matter what that opinion is....the entitlements are on both sides to have an opinion and to express it....
Kaylana04: "I am a great lover of these processes of division and generalizations.... And if I find any man who is able to see unity and plurality in nature, him I follow, and walk in his step as if he were a god" (Socrates).
Division deepens insight and helps us to create order.
Let's start with the concept of "friend". We have an extension of this term being all the set of people who are friends to a person. Number is not of importance in extension.
Then we have intention: This is basically its definition - the sum of all the characteristics. For "friend" this includes all the qualities of a friend - loyalty, trustworthiness, etc.
For those deep thinkers, the "Tree of Porphyry" shows the inverse relation between the two - as we focus in one direction (the set of friends) we move away from the definition (what makes a friend) and vise versa. ... Arguments abound. We have to look at how we are defining and classifying our terms.
We are taught to classify all religions as acceptable and this makes one "good". If we look at the definition of "Muslim", it includes a wide range of individuals including those who are extremists and those who are not. If we look at the extension of the group and divide using a dichotomy, we have two groups: Muslims and nonMuslims. In extension, number is not important. ... If they were to talk about the same thing (dissecting and analyzing the definition versus the extension of all who are included in the group), I believe the two opposing sides would see that they actually agree with each other more than initially believed at the onset.
Peace!
The raging is continuing on the various threads. I wish that people could see where they are on the spectrum between "extension" and "intention"...
When we group and label things, we don't care about numbers - or the individuals - involved. If our argument centers on specific aspects of a definition, we focus on numbers. Specific people that we personally know (ex. friends, coworkers, etc.) influence our position on the spectrum.
To restate the quote above, the person who can see diversity and plurality is the one to follow.
Sticking to your position on one end of the spectrum only makes you guilty of what you accuse the other side of doing.
Peoples minds do change, though and it depends how opened minded people are to truth...if they close their eyes, ignore what is going on around them, deny what is going on around them, fight themselves and others because they fear facing the truth...then those people should not be able to look themselves in the mirror If someones mind is narrow and they don't want to open it to the truth, then they will only have themselves to blame
The big problem with debating is the indoctrinated people, who follow an ideology and fail to think outside the box...they try to shut down debates, that they could learn a lot from, but fear learning, because everything, that they are brainwashed to believe is a lie and that's something, that they are not prepared to face....so they lashout and attempt to label posters, demean posters, gang up on posters, tell lies about poster, try to guilt shame posters, try to single out posters etc
LeeCharming: Peoples minds do change, though and it depends how opened minded people are to truth...if they close their eyes, ignore what is going on around them, deny what is going on around them, fight themselves and others because they fear facing the truth...then those people should not be able to look themselves in the mirror If someones mind is narrow and they don't want to open it to the truth, then they will only have themselves to blame
The big problem with debating is the indoctrinated people, who follow an ideology and fail to think outside the box...they try to shut down debates, that they could learn a lot from, but fear learning, because everything, that they are brainwashed to believe is a lie and that's something, that they are not prepared to face....so they lashout and attempt to label posters, demean posters, gang up on posters, tell lies about poster, try to guilt shame posters, try to single out posters etc
Lee I think Yuri Bezmenov does an excellent job of explaining what "ideological subversion" aka "active measures" is and how it has been used on the west. You can see that it has been used very successfully on certain forum members. They can't even see the damage being done to the western way of life no matter how obvious it is those who have managed to escape being brain washed.
Harbal: And they could start by learning to spell it.
I don't care how I spell it, because it is an oppressive ideology and I have zero respect for something, that preaches killing me and any non-believers
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