Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers? ( Archived) (59)

Mar 29, 2020 9:51 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
MustangWriter
MustangWriterMustangWriterBoerne, Texas USA242 Threads 3 Polls 1,762 Posts
Cancer & old age deaths listed as Coronavirus?

The coronavirus pandemic is exacting a heavy toll on Italy, with hospitals overwhelmed and a nationwide lockdown imposed. But experts are also concerned about a seemingly high death rate, with the number of fatalities outstripping the total reported in China.
Of the 63,927 people confirmed coronavirus patients in Italy, 6,077 so far have died. By contrast China has many more cases, 81,496, but 3,274 fatalities.
In very crude terms, this means that around nine per cent of confirmed coronavirus patients have died in Italy, compared to four per cent in China. By this measure Germany, which has so far identified 28,865 cases and 118 deaths, has a fatality rate of just 0.4 per cent.
So why the disparity?
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics - the nation has the second oldest population worldwide - and the manner in which hospitals record deaths.

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

A study in JAMA this week found that almost 40 per cent of infections and 87 per cent of deaths in the country have been in patients over 70 years old.

And according to modelling by Imperial College, London the majority of this age group are likely to need critical hospital care - including 80 per cent of 80-somethings - putting immense pressure on the health system.
But Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.
“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.


This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

And there’s also no question that parts of Italy’s health system have been overwhelmed with a surge of coronavirus patients and are struggling to cope.

"There are three factors involved in Italy: one is that it is a much older population, two the health system was overwhelmed, and three there has been a significant loss of health workers because of a high coronavirus infection rate among them,” says Prof McKee.
"Italy is ahead of us in the epidemic - and it’s not clear how many health workers [in the UK] are having to self isolate. That’s another big concern.
"Based on Italy’s experience, there is a real concern for the UK,” adds Prof McKee. “Compared to almost every other European country we have a relative shortage of ventilators and medical staff.”

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Mar 29, 2020 9:58 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
MustangWriter: Cancer & old age deaths listed as Coronavirus?

The coronavirus pandemic is exacting a heavy toll on Italy, with hospitals overwhelmed and a nationwide lockdown imposed. But experts are also concerned about a seemingly high death rate, with the number of fatalities outstripping the total reported in China.
Of the 63,927 people confirmed coronavirus patients in Italy, 6,077 so far have died. By contrast China has many more cases, 81,496, but 3,274 fatalities.
In very crude terms, this means that around nine per cent of confirmed coronavirus patients have died in Italy, compared to four per cent in China. By this measure Germany, which has so far identified 28,865 cases and 118 deaths, has a fatality rate of just 0.4 per cent.
So why the disparity?
According to Prof Walter Ricciardi, scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health, the country’s mortality rate is far higher due to demographics - the nation has the second oldest population worldwide - and the manner in which hospitals record deaths.

“The age of our patients in hospitals is substantially older - the median is 67, while in China it was 46,” Prof Ricciardi says. “So essentially the age distribution of our patients is squeezed to an older age and this is substantial in increasing the lethality.”

A study in JAMA this week found that almost 40 per cent of infections and 87 per cent of deaths in the country have been in patients over 70 years old.

And according to modelling by Imperial College, London the majority of this age group are likely to need critical hospital care - including 80 per cent of 80-somethings - putting immense pressure on the health system.
But Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may also appear high because of how doctors record fatalities.
“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity - many had two or three,” he says.

This does not mean that Covid-19 did not contribute to a patient's death, rather it demonstrates that Italy's fatality toll has surged as a large proportion of patients have underlying health conditions.

But there are other factors that may have contributed to Italy’s fatality rates, experts say. This includes a high rate of smoking and pollution - the majority of deaths have been in the northern region Lombardy region, which is notorious for poor air quality.

And there’s also no question that parts of Italy’s health system have been overwhelmed with a surge of coronavirus patients and are struggling to cope.

"There are three factors involved in Italy: one is that it is a much older population, two the health system was overwhelmed, and three there has been a significant loss of health workers because of a high coronavirus infection rate among them,” says Prof McKee.
"Italy is ahead of us in the epidemic - and it’s not clear how many health workers [in the UK] are having to self isolate. That’s another big concern.
"Based on Italy’s experience, there is a real concern for the UK,” adds Prof McKee. “Compared to almost every other European country we have a relative shortage of ventilators and medical staff.”
its a hoax is it?
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Mar 29, 2020 10:02 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
Rogerandout
RogerandoutRogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 Posts
pedro27: its a hoax is it?
Did you read all that Pedro? I got bored after the third line
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Mar 29, 2020 10:06 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
Italianos never lie. scold
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Mar 29, 2020 10:08 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads: Italianos never lie.
the roman empire ?
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Mar 29, 2020 10:10 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
Rogerandout
RogerandoutRogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 Posts
galrads: Italianos never lie.
Pinocchio did
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Mar 29, 2020 10:43 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
pedro27: the “holy” roman empire ?
Fixed laugh
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Mar 29, 2020 10:45 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
Rogerandout: Pinocchio did
Pinocchio was not a real boy. He was created by an ugly ferry in the dark book “the Adventures Of Pinocchio,“ laugh
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Mar 29, 2020 10:47 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
pat8lanips
pat8lanipspat8lanipsbabinda, Queensland Australia67 Threads 14 Polls 6,372 Posts
My understanding, he was made by Jepetto.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:48 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
MustangWriter
MustangWriterMustangWriterBoerne, Texas USA242 Threads 3 Polls 1,762 Posts
Rogerandout: Did you read all that Pedro? I got bored after the third line
Italy is lying about their coronavirus death numbers. Even if you die of cancer, if you tested positive on coronavirus, the death is listed as death from coronavirus.

Story came from UK's Telegram, In order to read one must be able to read.
NOT reading is as bad as being illiterate, which is why I posted the video, a concession for those who are illiterate.
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Mar 29, 2020 10:48 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads: Fixed
how is america getting on with this virus?
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Mar 29, 2020 10:50 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
Rogerandout
RogerandoutRogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 Posts
MustangWriter: Italy is lying about their coronavirus death numbers. Even if you die of cancer, if you tested positive on coronavirus, the death is listed as death from coronavirus.

Story came from UK's Telegram, In order to read one must be able to read.
NOT reading is as bad as being illiterate, which is why I posted the video, a concession for those who are illiterate.
There was a video as well. Stop it! you're spoiling us
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Mar 29, 2020 10:56 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
pat8lanips: My understanding, he was made by Jepetto.
I stand corrected. It was the ugly ferry that brought Pinocchio to life but not as a real boy.

beer
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Mar 29, 2020 10:58 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
pat8lanips
pat8lanipspat8lanipsbabinda, Queensland Australia67 Threads 14 Polls 6,372 Posts
Thing is 'Stang... majority of men aged over 70 or something will have health issues, especially things like prostate cancer. They would probably die with it, not because of it... So somebody with a bad case gets corona and dies within days/weeks, you still want to call it prostate (or whatever)... I think we're going down the road of paranoid conspiracy theories here. No country wants this.
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Mar 29, 2020 11:03 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
Rogerandout
RogerandoutRogerandoutLondon, Greater London, England UK686 Posts
pat8lanips: Thing is 'Stang... majority of men aged over 70 or something will have health issues, especially things like prostate cancer. They would probably die with it, not because of it... So somebody with a bad case gets corona and dies within days/weeks, you still want to call it prostate (or whatever)... I think we're going down the road of paranoid conspiracy theories here. No country wants this.
Mustangsally ain't gonna listen. It was in the papers, it must be true
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Mar 29, 2020 11:08 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
pedro27: how is america getting on with this virus?
I stay home unless i need food or important things. I had to cancel my house cleaning service by a local maid because they are all from Brazil. Darned if i want them bringing and using vacuum cleaners used in other homes either.

The coronavirus scare is crippling our industry, changing lives forever I think. unemployment increasing to were we will be in a bad recession if we remain captive in our homes.

The virus is hitting some states harder, like new york, new jersey, michigan, Louisiana, and cities on the west coast.

We are going to bring pharmaceutical manufacturing back to the usa instead of buying from china.

beer Corona Extra for you laugh
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Mar 29, 2020 11:11 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
pat8lanips: Thing is 'Stang... majority of men aged over 70 or something will have health issues, especially things like prostate cancer. They would probably die with it, not because of it... So somebody with a bad case gets corona and dies within days/weeks, you still want to call it prostate (or whatever)... I think we're going down the road of paranoid conspiracy theories here. No country wants this.
A lot of single, and married, men can avoid prostate cancer by m**turbating frequently if they aren’t getting laid often. I hear the right diet and prostate massages help avoid prostate cancer too.

beer
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Mar 29, 2020 11:14 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
pat8lanips
pat8lanipspat8lanipsbabinda, Queensland Australia67 Threads 14 Polls 6,372 Posts
I'll be pretty rght then, but blind as a bat.
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Mar 29, 2020 11:18 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
pat8lanips: I'll be pretty rght then, but blind as a bat.
rolling on the floor laughing
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Mar 29, 2020 11:21 AM CST Is Italy is Lying About Their Coronavirus Death Numbers?
galrads: I stay home unless i need food or important things. I had to cancel my house cleaning service by a local maid because they are all from Brazil. Darned if i want them bringing and using vacuum cleaners used in other homes either.

The coronavirus scare is crippling our industry, changing lives forever I think. unemployment increasing to were we will be in a bad recession if we remain captive in our homes.

The virus is hitting some states harder, like new york, new jersey, michigan, Louisiana, and cities on the west coast.

We are going to bring pharmaceutical manufacturing back to the usa instead of buying from china.

Corona Extra for you
second coming of christ maybe?

johnny cash , the man comes around

the song explains it
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