7 shots close range in the back. ( Archived) (268)

Aug 28, 2020 3:43 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
germanspitz: He was shot by the Metropolitan Police.
he must have made the wrong move like your american guy.
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Aug 28, 2020 3:43 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
TheDino1
TheDino1TheDino1Belfast, Antrim Ireland139 Threads 1 Polls 5,029 Posts
germanspitz: Both black and white unfortunately and my thread was never about colour, it was the way that they took this man down in front of his kids.
Yes I understood that this thread wasn't about colour, but as you know it soon turns into a hate fest..sigh
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Aug 28, 2020 3:48 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
TheDino1: M.I.5. I guess, they are very incompetent too..
Relatives of Jean Charles de Menezes have lost a legal challenge against the decision not to charge police officers who killed him because they mistakenly believed he was a suicide bomber.

The decision by the European court of human rights in Strasbourg brings to an end a controversy that has endured since 2005 following the Brazilian electrician’s death at Stockwell tube station, south London. His family condemned the judgment for allowing police to avoid accountability.
Who was Jean Charles de Menezes?
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A string of blunders led members of the Metropolitan police’s elite armed unit, CO19, to open fire with their guns just 1cm to 8cm away from De Menezes’ head as he was pinned down into a seat on an underground train. He died instantly.

The incident on 22 July 2005 followed a series of terrorist attacks in London – the suicide bombings that killed 56 people on 7 July and the failed attacks on 21 July. De Menezes lived at the same block of flats in Tulse Hill, south London, as two of the suspects in the previous day’s bombings and had been followed by surveillance officers to Stockwell station when he left for work that morning.

The Crown Prosecution Service decided the following year that no individual should face charges. The challenge to the CPS’s refusal to prosecute the officers was brought by Patricia Armani da Silva, who is De Menezes’ cousin.

The case was heard in the grand chamber of the ECHR, which deals with cases potentially affecting interpretation of the European convention on human rights.

By a majority of 13 to four, the judges ruled that the UK had not violated article two of the convention, which guarantees the right to life. The dissenting judges were from Turkey, Russia, Poland and Spain.

“The decision not to prosecute any individual officer was not due to any failings in the investigation or the state’s tolerance of or collusion in unlawful acts,” the court declared. “Rather, it was due to the fact that, following a thorough investigation, a prosecutor had considered all the facts of the case and concluded that there was insufficient evidence against any individual officer to prosecute.”

The ECHR acknowledged that all the UK independent authorities considering the actions of the two firearms officers “had carefully examined the reasonableness of their belief that Jean Charles de Menezes had been a suicide bomber who could detonate a bomb at any second”.
Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
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The Strasbourg court also accepted that the evidential test applied by the CPS in deciding whether to prosecute had been within the state’s discretion – what is known legally as its “margin of appreciation”.

The test applied in England and Wales had not been “arbitrary”, having been the subject of frequent reviews, public consultations and political scrutiny, the court added. Nor is there a uniform, alternative approach by other European states to the evidential test employed.

The ECHR dismissed claims that article two required the evidential test to be lowered in cases where deaths had occurred at the hands of state agents.

“The facts of the present case are undoubtedly tragic and the frustration of Mr De Menezes’ family at the absence of any individual prosecutions is understandable,” the judgment said. “However, it cannot be said that any question of the authorities’ responsibility for the death … was left in abeyance.”

It added: “As the government have pointed out, sometimes lives are lost as a result of failures in the overall system rather than individual error entailing criminal or disciplinary liability … It cannot be said that the domestic authorities have failed to discharge the procedural obligation under article two of the convention to conduct an effective investigation into the shooting of Mr De Menezes.”
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Aug 28, 2020 3:52 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
TheDino1
TheDino1TheDino1Belfast, Antrim Ireland139 Threads 1 Polls 5,029 Posts
tomcatty: Relatives of Jean Charles de Menezes have lost a legal challenge against the decision not to charge police officers who killed him because they mistakenly believed he was a suicide bomber.

The decision by the European court of human rights in Strasbourg brings to an end a controversy that has endured since 2005 following the Brazilian electrician’s death at Stockwell tube station, south London. His family condemned the judgment for allowing police to avoid accountability.
Who was Jean Charles de Menezes?
Read more

A string of blunders led members of the Metropolitan police’s elite armed unit, CO19, to open fire with their guns just 1cm to 8cm away from De Menezes’ head as he was pinned down into a seat on an underground train. He died instantly.

The incident on 22 July 2005 followed a series of terrorist attacks in London – the suicide bombings that killed 56 people on 7 July and the failed attacks on 21 July. De Menezes lived at the same block of flats in Tulse Hill, south London, as two of the suspects in the previous day’s bombings and had been followed by surveillance officers to Stockwell station when he left for work that morning.

The Crown Prosecution Service decided the following year that no individual should face charges. The challenge to the CPS’s refusal to prosecute the officers was brought by Patricia Armani da Silva, who is De Menezes’ cousin.

The case was heard in the grand chamber of the ECHR, which deals with cases potentially affecting interpretation of the European convention on human rights.

By a majority of 13 to four, the judges ruled that the UK had not violated article two of the convention, which guarantees the right to life. The dissenting judges were from Turkey, Russia, Poland and Spain.

“The decision not to prosecute any individual officer was not due to any failings in the investigation or the state’s tolerance of or collusion in unlawful acts,” the court declared. “Rather, it was due to the fact that, following a thorough investigation, a prosecutor had considered all the facts of the case and concluded that there was insufficient evidence against any individual officer to prosecute.”

The ECHR acknowledged that all the UK independent authorities considering the actions of the two firearms officers “had carefully examined the reasonableness of their belief that Jean Charles de Menezes had been a suicide bomber who could detonate a bomb at any second”.
Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more

The Strasbourg court also accepted that the evidential test applied by the CPS in deciding whether to prosecute had been within the state’s discretion – what is known legally as its “margin of appreciation”.

The test applied in England and Wales had not been “arbitrary”, having been the subject of frequent reviews, public consultations and political scrutiny, the court added. Nor is there a uniform, alternative approach by other European states to the evidential test employed.

The ECHR dismissed claims that article two required the evidential test to be lowered in cases where deaths had occurred at the hands of state agents.

“The facts of the present case are undoubtedly tragic and the frustration of Mr De Menezes’ family at the absence of any individual prosecutions is understandable,” the judgment said. “However, it cannot be said that any question of the authorities’ responsibility for the death … was left in abeyance.”

It added: “As the government have pointed out, sometimes lives are lost as a result of failures in the overall system rather than individual error entailing criminal or disciplinary liability … It cannot be said that the domestic authorities have failed to discharge the procedural obligation under article two of the convention to conduct an effective investigation into the shooting of Mr De Menezes.”
A total cover up if ever there was one...
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Aug 28, 2020 3:56 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
TheDino1: A total cover up if ever there was one...
Don't you find that's often the case Dino.dunno

As if compensation helps when one loses a loved one under such circumstances

The four-year legal battle by the family of Jean Charles de Menezes ended when they reached a settlement with Scotland Yard. The Metropolitan police agreed to pay compensation to the family, and in return the relatives of Menezes agreed to end their legal action.
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Aug 28, 2020 3:58 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty: he should have surrendered his weaon and given himself up to the police.It's lucky no police officer was injured, the official enquiry shoul be interesting.
Yes he should have. When ordered to do something by the police you do it. If you think you've been treated unfairly then you argue the toss later, by making an official complaint or getting yourself a solicitor or whatever but you do it after the event, not during it.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:03 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
snowlynx: Yes he should have. When ordered to do something by the police you do it. If you think you've been treated unfairly then you argue the toss later, by making an official complaint or getting yourself a solicitor or whatever but you do it after the event, not during it.
The voice of eason at last.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:03 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
TheDino1
TheDino1TheDino1Belfast, Antrim Ireland139 Threads 1 Polls 5,029 Posts
germanspitz: Don't you find that's often the case Dino.

As if compensation helps when one loses a loved one under such circumstances

The four-year legal battle by the family of Jean Charles de Menezes ended when they reached a settlement with Scotland Yard. The Metropolitan police agreed to pay compensation to the family, and in return the relatives of Menezes agreed to end their legal action.
All too often, nothing we haven't witnessed over years..
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Aug 28, 2020 4:05 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
snowlynx: Yes he should have. When ordered to do something by the police you do it. If you think you've been treated unfairly then you argue the toss later, by making an official complaint or getting yourself a solicitor or whatever but you do it after the event, not during it.
Again Snowlynx this was never about the rights and wrongs on compliance ,it's about the brute force behind the action needed to take control of the situation.

Do you honestly accept that it was necessary to empty half of his clip or magazine into someone's back.?
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Aug 28, 2020 4:09 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
germanspitz: Again Snowlynx this was never about the rights and wrongs on compliance ,it's about the brute force behind the action needed to take control of the situation.

Do you honestly accept that it was necessary to empty half of his clip or magazine into someone's back.?
you tell us , you seem to have set yourself up as prosecutor jury and judge in an untried caseprofessor scold scold
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Aug 28, 2020 4:16 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
you tell us , you seem to have set yourself up as prosecutor jury and judge in an untried case[/quote.

Trust you to come in and poke your nose in and stir the pot. Pity you don't learn to read the written word before you come in half cocked and spot rhetoric.

The opening thread is " 7 shots close range in the back" not is the man guilty of a crime or innocent.


Go and play with your imaginary cat.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:19 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
germanspitz: Again Snowlynx this was never about the rights and wrongs on compliance ,it's about the brute force behind the action needed to take control of the situation.

Do you honestly accept that it was necessary to empty half of his clip or magazine into someone's back.?
I think it was probably an over-reaction but that is just the first impression, a trial or inquiry is needed to find out the truth, we go on from there.
I can't agree that this is not about the rights and wrongs on compliance, we need to get back to the principle I mentioned above.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:21 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
Mercedes_00
Mercedes_00Mercedes_00Greater Sydney, New South Wales Australia18 Threads 20,446 Posts
Desk duty hey?

That's America for ya.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:22 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
germanspitz: you tell us , you seem to have set yourself up as prosecutor jury and judge in an untried case[/quote.

Trust you to come in and poke your nose in and stir the pot. Pity you don't learn to read the written word before you come in half cocked and spot rhetoric.

The opening thread is " 7 shots close range in the back" not is the man guilty of a crime or innocent.


Go and play with your imaginary cat.
germanspitz: you tell us , you seem to have set yourself up as prosecutor jury and judge in an untried case[/quote.

Trust you to come in and poke your nose in and stir the pot. Pity you don't learn to read the written word before you come in half cocked and spot rhetoric.

The opening thread is " 7 shots close range in the back" not is the man guilty of a crime or innocent.


Go and play with your imaginary cat.
And doesn't that imply some wrong doing?? silly sausage.
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Aug 28, 2020 4:25 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
snowlynx: I think it was probably an over-reaction but that is just the first impression, a trial or inquiry is needed to find out the truth, we go on from there.
I can't agree that this is not about the rights and wrongs on compliance, we need to get back to the principle I mentioned above.
I guess as a non violent person this incident, as have others that have led to the deaths of sometimes innocent people ,is hard for me to comprehend.

What also struck me was the after event of a 17 year old out in the streets shooting at people . It's horrendous.

Embedded image from another site
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Aug 28, 2020 4:28 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
Mercedes_00: Desk duty hey?

That's America for ya.
Evening merc.

I haven't followed the case except to know that the guy didn't die. Hope all well with you.teddybear
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Aug 28, 2020 4:28 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
germanspitz: I guess as a non violent person this incident, as have others that have led to the deaths of sometimes innocent people ,is hard for me to comprehend.

What also struck me was the after event of a 17 year old out in the streets shooting at people . It's horrendous.
or naybe attention seekinglaugh
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Aug 28, 2020 6:34 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty
tomcattytomcattyCoral Bay, Paphos, Paphos Cyprus368 Threads 6 Polls 6,885 Posts
germanspitz: So what would your God have said about that Stringman? Would he approve of a man being almost murdered in front of his children. The children were aware something was wrong and could hear all the problems outside the vehicle so must have been terrified.

I keep repeating that this incident was never about whether Jacob Blake had a knife ,a police record or whatever, it is about the amount of lead pumped into his back, half a clip to be precise assuming it held 15 rounds.

That amount of ammo smacks of a shoot to kill. That is what I find abhorrant.
what a pudding, now you have the audacity to make judgments aove the law of another country i don't knowscold scold
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Aug 28, 2020 7:04 AM CST 7 shots close range in the back.
tomcatty: what a pudding, now you have the audacity to make judgments aove the law of another country i don't know
Why don't you use your brain if you can find it. My concern is about people not their country's policies or how they run their country. This thread has run absolutely smoothly until you come along hell bent on stirring up trouble just for your own ego such as it is.

YOU KEEP STATING I'M A TROLL AND YOU DISLIKE ME SO WHY ARE YOU TROLLING ME WITH ALL THE NAME CALLING

As I have and always will state GROW UP and try acting like an adult if at all possible.. Your reputation for stirring and degrading people on here is well know doh
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