Let’s Debate (36)
Didi7: "Please state whether you are for or against and present your case in at least 2 points, as concisely as possible.
FOR/AGAINST –
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2.
I am sorry everyone...it seems as though my Debate topic was unclear, which led some to believe it is about Spirituality VS Religion. It isn't.
Whichever perspective/standpoint you prefer to speak about (i.e. Spirituality or Religion), the focus is on the "positivity/optimism vs negativity/pessimism" that seems to be contradictory to their underlying tenets.
So...."Be it resolved that one cannot claim to be Spiritual/Religious and be a pessimist, at the same time!"
What you are wanting is a matrix. Read the story of the apostle ‘Thomas’. Though doubting, he was one of Christ’s favorites. You’re stirring up deep waters. What credentials do you bring to the table to be so philosophical regarding the private sanctity of peoples innermost personal convictions? You need to be more careful in your attempts to rankle people about their very private feelings. Not so good….FOR/AGAINST –
1.
2.
I am sorry everyone...it seems as though my Debate topic was unclear, which led some to believe it is about Spirituality VS Religion. It isn't.
Whichever perspective/standpoint you prefer to speak about (i.e. Spirituality or Religion), the focus is on the "positivity/optimism vs negativity/pessimism" that seems to be contradictory to their underlying tenets.
So...."Be it resolved that one cannot claim to be Spiritual/Religious and be a pessimist, at the same time!"
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online today!d4nI314: True! And it has a lot of interpretations.
It's all a matter of perception.
Hello my friend
It's all a matter of perception.
Hello my friend
Perception is big but so is what people are taught and then believe.------ This thread is Archived ------
online today!Didi7: "Please state whether you are for or against and present your case in at least 2 points, as concisely as possible.
FOR/AGAINST –
1.
2.
Yeah, debate around here tends to flow on it's own and hardly ever becomes actual debate. FOR/AGAINST –
1.
2.
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Against
1. Mankind is a flawed and corrupt creature, unredeemable on its own account.
2. The only cure for Humanity is through universal destruction.
These notions, paraphrased are at the heart of most, if not all spiritual systems and religions.
1. Mankind is a flawed and corrupt creature, unredeemable on its own account.
2. The only cure for Humanity is through universal destruction.
These notions, paraphrased are at the heart of most, if not all spiritual systems and religions.
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d4nI314: ...and are not true to their beliefs.
It may appear that way, but then again, how could we know the entirety of someone else's belief system, or their own personal interpretation of a particular belief system?From reading posts I'd say people are generally true to their beliefs, but maybe I focussed on different things during my childhood religious education. We all pick and choose because we all interpret and reason from our own value framework.
As perplexing as it is when someone has a different religious/spiritual perspective from that which we hold true, do we have the right to judge the whole person because their life experience and opinions are different from our own? That judgement in tself could also be non-true to a belief system, but we all have times where we lack self-awareness, or fail to fully assimilate an idea we hold true.
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Didi7: So...."Be it resolved that one cannot claim to be Spiritual/Religious and be a pessimist, at the same time!"
Who gets to decide if someone is 'a pessimist'?Is it true that some people are entirely pessimistc, or entirely optimstic?
Perhaps each of us experience both pessimistic and optimistic perspectives at different times, as well as neither, or both at the same time.
Does that mean that someone's religion/spirituality no longer exists if they have a bleak moment, and it suddenly exists again if that bleakness passes?
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It's not the religious belief itself its the person that does project their own personality through it.
I've met hateful but in their own words religious people. Or people who can quote every spiritual saying but are total waste of a human.
Stupid but enlightened...
Claiming you are and actually being something are two very different things.
It's about understanding, huminily and humbleness and not just following the trend.
I've met hateful but in their own words religious people. Or people who can quote every spiritual saying but are total waste of a human.
Stupid but enlightened...
Claiming you are and actually being something are two very different things.
It's about understanding, huminily and humbleness and not just following the trend.
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Which is how it ties in with nationalism. Christianity in this hour is not an ethical creed so much as an identity bracelet. More like supporting a football team, an act of loyalty more than a principled belief. Most fans would support their team cheating to obtain victory which is obviously in stark contrast Jesus being nailed to a cross which was an act of not cheating even in the face of the most unjust law.
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It's not quite openly said yet but its poverty they want. Which is why we have the paradox of boomers who support pro-life complaining that the kids live in the basement when that is the traditional, conservative household. They think that they could take money, economic freedom from capitalism, without freedom in any other sense. And they're completely wrong about that. We'll go back to a time of real conservatives who never liked capitalism, but for a very different reason to Marx. They didn't like it because they knew that money and power would destroy the traditional way of life. If you want social conservatism you need to get yourself into a communist country where the economy has been wrecked
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jac_the_gripper: Who gets to decide if someone is 'a pessimist'?
Is it true that some people are entirely pessimistc, or entirely optimstic?
Perhaps each of us experience both pessimistic and optimistic perspectives at different times, as well as neither, or both at the same time.
Does that mean that someone's religion/spirituality no longer exists if they have a bleak moment, and it suddenly exists again if that bleakness passes?
Thank you for this insightful perspective jac..The reasoning is sound, and I agree with it wholeheartedly!Is it true that some people are entirely pessimistc, or entirely optimstic?
Perhaps each of us experience both pessimistic and optimistic perspectives at different times, as well as neither, or both at the same time.
Does that mean that someone's religion/spirituality no longer exists if they have a bleak moment, and it suddenly exists again if that bleakness passes?
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BB_snickers: Yeah, debate around here tends to flow on it's own and hardly ever becomes actual debate.
That's quite true BB... just wanted to see what a 'structured' one would be like
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In fact the whole thing is going to be very interesting when the penny drops that conservativism is all about being penniless. Will it forego all the liberalist mod cons like the amish? Or will it continue to do both? Live like nothing that came before whilst espousing conservativism?
I think the latter will be the case. Let the psychological rut do what living in a hut used to do. It will be the hypocritical traditionalism of this forum, the unhappiness of modern conservativism exists on some level because they know they're fake. Like I say they really hate the optimism of western progress but at the same time they'd be extremely uncomfortable living traditionally.
I think the latter will be the case. Let the psychological rut do what living in a hut used to do. It will be the hypocritical traditionalism of this forum, the unhappiness of modern conservativism exists on some level because they know they're fake. Like I say they really hate the optimism of western progress but at the same time they'd be extremely uncomfortable living traditionally.
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rohaan: What you are wanting is a matrix. Read the story of the apostle ‘Thomas’. Though doubting, he was one of Christ’s favorites. You’re stirring up deep waters. What credentials do you bring to the table to be so philosophical regarding the private sanctity of peoples innermost personal convictions? You need to be more careful in your attempts to rankle people about their very private feelings. Not so good….
Oh my...it seems as though I've offended you once again Rohaan. I have no such personal desire to "stir up deep waters" nor "rankle" anyone. My interest was mainly to explore the nature of 'pessimism and optimism' from a spiritual/religious perspective, not to offend or accuse others. Please forgive me
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Didi7: Oh my...it seems as though I've offended you once again Rohaan. I have no such personal desire to "stir up deep waters" nor "rankle" anyone. My interest was mainly to explore the nature of 'pessimism and optimism' from a spiritual/religious perspective, not to offend or accuse others.
Please forgive me
Not offended. Just unclear about exactly what it is you are asking people to tell you. So, let me try this: I believe it is far better to be optimistic regarding spirituality (allowing that this is different for everyone). If you are pessimistic and correct, you won't know the difference. If you are pessimistic and incorrect, you will have wasted precious time being pessimistic, and it will be too late. If you are optimistic and incorrect, you were optimistic for your lifespan. If you are are optimistic and correct, you win twice. (if you are pessimistic, you lose all the way around.)Please forgive me
hope that is some clarity from my neck of the woods, spiritually, anyway/
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FOR/AGAINST –
1.
2.
I am sorry everyone...it seems as though my Debate topic was unclear, which led some to believe it is about Spirituality VS Religion. It isn't.
Whichever perspective/standpoint you prefer to speak about (i.e. Spirituality or Religion), the focus is on the "positivity/optimism vs negativity/pessimism" that seems to be contradictory to their underlying tenets.
So...."Be it resolved that one cannot claim to be Spiritual/Religious and be a pessimist, at the same time!"