Trust or no ... (40)

May 22, 2022 1:16 PM CST Trust or no ...
Trust isn't really about the other person. Like love, trust is about you.

When others do something upsetting while with us, it appears to be personal but it is really a sign that they have trust issues or they are not able to love because of how tightly they hold onto their ego's perception of safety or security.

The ego's perception is to trust no one unless they 'prove' trustworthy.

So if you've been hurt in the past do you expect them to do it again ... or just as bad do you expect other people to be untrustworthy too?

How open or closed are you or can you be with your trust and your love? confused


detective detective
May 22, 2022 1:51 PM CST Trust or no ...
BB_snickers: Trust isn't really about the other person. Like love, trust is about you.

When others do something upsetting while with us, it appears to be personal but it is really a sign that they have trust issues or they are not able to love because of how tightly they hold onto their ego's perception of safety or security.

The ego's perception is to trust no one unless they 'prove' trustworthy.

So if you've been hurt in the past do you expect them to do it again ... or just as bad do you expect other people to be untrustworthy too?

How open or closed are you or can you be with your trust and your love?
A tiger never changes it's spots. If it bites you once it will bite you again. That's the nature of the tiger. Trying to be friends with the tiger shows how desperate one is to prove that he/she can change the tiger, a/k/a people. Humans and animals have a DNA that doesn't change no matter how much you smooth over the prickly hairs on the outside.uh oh

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
May 22, 2022 1:58 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2online today!
bodleing2online today!bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK77 Threads 6,602 Posts
secretagent09: A tiger never changes it's spots. If it bites you once it will bite you again. That's the nature of the tiger. Trying to be friends with the tiger shows how desperate one is to prove that he/she can change the tiger, a/k/a people. Humans and animals have a DNA that doesn't change no matter how much you smooth over the prickly hairs on the outside.

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Shame on you for thinking a tiger has spots.

laugh
May 22, 2022 2:05 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2: Shame on you for thinking a tiger has spots.
Leave it to you to be technical laugh

Alright, alright, it has lines tongue

What a pretty little kitty cat uh oh

Embedded image from another site
May 22, 2022 2:09 PM CST Trust or no ...
I trust too much, so sometimes I get disappointed when it's not returned.

Some basic trust is pretty imperative to growth and happiness between people.
May 22, 2022 2:11 PM CST Trust or no ...
That is how I imagine heaven to be by the way: full of trust.
May 22, 2022 2:21 PM CST Trust or no ...
BB_snickers: Trust isn't really about the other person. Like love, trust is about you.

When others do something upsetting while with us, it appears to be personal but it is really a sign that they have trust issues or they are not able to love because of how tightly they hold onto their ego's perception of safety or security.

The ego's perception is to trust no one unless they 'prove' trustworthy.

So if you've been hurt in the past do you expect them to do it again ... or just as bad do you expect other people to be untrustworthy too?

How open or closed are you or can you be with your trust and your love?
I'd need a baseline here. Any chance, you are projecting your own problems out on anyone, who'd answer?

Trust in what? I won't lend my money to someone I don't know. Is it ego or common sense? Or, perhaps, common sense is indeed ego in your theorem?

Love is a feeling. It's a feeling you feel, that's all. I don't need to trust someone I love.

Trust is earned. Love is granted. Or experienced. Or just exists.

In the air :)
May 22, 2022 2:30 PM CST Trust or no ...
secretagent09: A tiger never changes it's spots. If it bites you once it will bite you again. That's the nature of the tiger. Trying to be friends with the tiger shows how desperate one is to prove that he/she can change the tiger, a/k/a people. Humans and animals have a DNA that doesn't change no matter how much you smooth over the prickly hairs on the outside.

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me twice shame on me
Well that sounds rather final SA. Is there no chance that you could change your perception or your belief that the tiger is only being a tiger because that is how it was taught and that through some intervention one could assist the tiger with change?

I don't don't agree about DNA. I think that though ego is a kind of software running in the background of all of us, our consciousness, I think change is not only possible but inevitable to the point of guaranteed.

beer
May 22, 2022 2:32 PM CST Trust or no ...
secretagent09: Leave it to you to be technical

Alright, alright, it has lines

What a pretty little kitty cat
See, it has already changed from your thinking it has spots. Freudian perhaps? laugh
May 22, 2022 2:38 PM CST Trust or no ...
Grandsiozzie: I trust too much, so sometimes I get disappointed when it's not returned.


yeah, I think that is fairly common, the disappointment. Still I think that is better than being the one that isn't trusting.

Grandsiozzie:
Some basic trust is pretty imperative to growth and happiness between people.
Very true and perhaps carries more growth and happiness when it is more than 'some' and becomes all.


Grandsiozzie:
That is how I imagine heaven to be by the way: full of trust.
As do I and when you think about it, if you give trust and don't expect it from others, (cos it's not important how other people are) maybe that gets us to that heaven? dunno
May 22, 2022 2:39 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2online today!
bodleing2online today!bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK77 Threads 6,602 Posts
secretagent09: Leave it to you to be technical

Alright, alright, it has lines

What a pretty little kitty cat
The saying originally came from The Bible verse from Jeremiah 13:23 says “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?”

It fits nicely into our perception of the human condition, not sure about the leopards spots but the human brain can certainly be re-wired.
Since neuroplasticity became fully understood fairly recently it is now known that due to the maleable nature of the brain, with the right training the brain can change more than we ever though possible. We are not hard wired as was believed.

*"Michael Merzenich is a neuroscientist who has been one of the pioneers of neuroplasticity for over three decades

Merzenich asserted that, "If the brain map could normalize its structure in response to abnormal input, the prevailing view that we are born with a hardwired system had to be wrong. The brain had to be plastic."

Merzenich received the 2016 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience "for the discovery of mechanisms that allow experience and neural activity to remodel brain function."

*wiki
May 22, 2022 2:51 PM CST Trust or no ...
Tulefell: I'd need a baseline here. Any chance, you are projecting your own problems out on anyone, who'd answer?
hmmm I don't think so, but who knows with projection? I am by nature a pretty trusting person who will give folks more chances than you can shake a stick at, though I'm not inexhaustible. However I do not have any issues currently. I am, in fact, going through a course with material that is about trust so I thought I'd bring it here and maybe learn something from others.

'
Tulefell:
Trust in what? I won't lend my money to someone I don't know. Is it ego or common sense? Or, perhaps, common sense is indeed ego in your theorem?
When it is 'lending', it is indeed ego. The ego wants or expects something back. Love trusts and gives without expectation. In fact it is the giving that is the getting for love. Pricing out your lending is certainly ego.

Tulefell:
Love is a feeling. It's a feeling you feel, that's all. I don't need to trust someone I love.
Well, for me love is a being and feelings are part of experiencing love or it's opposite, fear.
I think for most people when they love someone trust doesn't often come into question but my question is when does it or does it never come into question because I think your statement applies in a much larger sense than you imply.


Tulefell: Trust is earned. Love is granted. Or experienced. Or just exists.

In the air :)
Thanks Tulefell. Love surely does exist.
May 22, 2022 2:56 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2: The saying originally came from The Bible verse from Jeremiah 13:23 says “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?”

It fits nicely into our perception of the human condition, not sure about the leopards spots but the human brain can certainly be re-wired.
Since neuroplasticity became fully understood fairly recently it is now known that due to the malleable nature of the brain, with the right training the brain can change more than we ever thought possible. We are not hard wired as was believed.

*"Michael Merzenich is a neuroscientist who has been one of the pioneers of neuroplasticity for over three decades

Merzenich asserted that, "If the brain map could normalize its structure in response to abnormal input, the prevailing view that we are born with a hardwired system had to be wrong. The brain had to be plastic."

Merzenich received the 2016 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience "for the discovery of mechanisms that allow experience and neural activity to remodel brain function."

*wiki
Are you saying that ego, or spirit is part of brain Gra? Is it the brain for you or the mind that we are discussing? The brain, our brain is indeed a human thing. I'm not sure that consciousness is only human if you know what I mean.




wine
May 22, 2022 2:57 PM CST Trust or no ...
BB_snickers:
I think for most people

....
What you think is relevant only for you, not for the most people.


BB_snickers:

Thanks Tulefell.
Always welcome :)
May 22, 2022 3:00 PM CST Trust or no ...
Tulefell: What you think is relevant only for you, not for the most people.


Always welcome :)
beer
May 22, 2022 4:28 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2: The saying originally came from The Bible verse from Jeremiah 13:23 says “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots?”

It fits nicely into our perception of the human condition, not sure about the leopards spots but the human brain can certainly be re-wired.
Since neuroplasticity became fully understood fairly recently it is now known that due to the maleable nature of the brain, with the right training the brain can change more than we ever though possible. We are not hard wired as was believed.

*"Michael Merzenich is a neuroscientist who has been one of the pioneers of neuroplasticity for over three decades

Merzenich asserted that, "If the brain map could normalize its structure in response to abnormal input, the prevailing view that we are born with a hardwired system had to be wrong. The brain had to be plastic."

Merzenich received the 2016 Kavli Prize in Neuroscience "for the discovery of mechanisms that allow experience and neural activity to remodel brain function."

*wiki
I cannot more importantly I will not change for someone just to please their ego.

When you think of it, why should I change? Aren't I entitled to be me? When I was looking for a mate I looked for someone who thinks the way I do, who enjoys the same things I enjoy. All that is within reason.

I'm not in favor of science changing my brain just because others think I should so that they will be satisfied with me. If someone doesn't like me then walk away. I have enjoyed the happiness of loving someone and being loved. I'm past the point in my life where I have to please people every darn minute.

I am a simple person who enjoys a simple life even if my brain is malfunctioning laugh
May 22, 2022 7:57 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2online today!
bodleing2online today!bodleing2Manchester, Greater Manchester, England UK77 Threads 6,602 Posts
BB_snickers: Are you saying that ego, or spirit is part of brain Gra? Is it the brain for you or the mind that we are discussing? The brain, our brain is indeed a human thing. I'm not sure that consciousness is only human if you know what I mean.
No, not saying that at all. The mind is unmanifested or empty of substance, pure luminescence. The brain is manifested and conditioned, (spots.) The 'spots' respond to stimulus, the response is not fixed but subject to mind. The ego's job is security, self presevation, scan the past for clues and create the best path for the future.
This is where 'transactional trust' comes in where we are counting on a future result to occur. It's an emotional view of past and future and largely performance based measured by outcome. We use this kind of trust every day to navigate our way through life.
The other form of trust, 'innate trust' which I think you are talking about, is based on living in the moment trusting that living to your values, even in difficult and testing situations, your life will unfold with greater meaning and harmonious outcomes. In surrendering to innate trust, being in the eternal now allows you to concentrate on being present in this very moment. Innate trust allows us to let life be.
May 22, 2022 8:39 PM CST Trust or no ...
bodleing2: No, not saying that at all. The mind is unmanifested or empty of substance, pure luminescence. The brain is manifested and conditioned, (spots.) The 'spots' respond to stimulus, the response is not fixed but subject to mind. The ego's job is security, self preservation, scan the past for clues and create the best path for the future.
This is where 'transactional trust' comes in where we are counting on a future result to occur. It's an emotional view of past and future and largely performance based measured by outcome. We use this kind of trust every day to navigate our way through life.

The other form of trust, 'innate trust' which I think you are talking about, is based on living in the moment trusting that living to your values, even in difficult and testing situations, your life will unfold with greater meaning and harmonious outcomes. In surrendering to innate trust, being in the eternal now allows you to concentrate on being present in this very moment. Innate trust allows us to let life be.
This would be the nuts and bolts of my OP and well put, that. I hadn't thought about dividing the idea of trust but it is indeed a human pattern and helpful in discussion I expect. Basically it boils down to fear choice or love choice? hmmm

This division, if I can all it that, is like bastardized 'forms' love, those being conditional and unconditional love, where we select unconditional for certain people only, which is in itself a condition, which then defies the attempt at unconditional.

I suppose selection has some value, though I would guess that that depends on the end goal or desire even if misguided.

Thanks for the explanation. beer
May 22, 2022 11:30 PM CST Trust or no ...
BB_snickers: This would be the nuts and bolts of my OP and well put, that. I hadn't thought about dividing the idea of trust but it is indeed a human pattern and helpful in discussion I expect. Basically it boils down to fear choice or love choice?

This division, if I can all it that, is like bastardized 'forms' love, those being conditional and unconditional love, where we select unconditional for certain people only, which is in itself a condition, which then defies the attempt at unconditional.

I suppose selection has some value, though I would guess that that depends on the end goal or desire even if misguided.

Thanks for the explanation.
I like your explanation because I can understand it better than Bode's (no offense Bodeman hug )

At this late stage of my life I've learned that you cannot know if someone will give you unconditional love until you have been in their environment for a long time. An environment that will show how they react to ups and downs. So you are correct BJ.... I mean BB grin in that we make choices. A fear choice where we take a chance or a love choice where we give the benefit of doubt that love will appear.

For my own sanity, I choose to not try to find love again. The last time I did I found it on here and it was one-sided because it wasn't honest from the start.

And ya know what, I'm fine loving myself and my family.
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