Honour Killings investigated in England ( Archived) (22)

Jun 27, 2007 9:31 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Scotland Yard detectives are examining murder files going back 10 years - 52 in the London area and 65 in other parts of England and Wales.

Many of the female victims were from South Asian communities.

Detectives are not reopening the cases but hope to learn more about the scale and nature of the phenomenon.

The Metropolitan Police will give details of its inquiry at a conference in The Hague on Tuesday.

We've been unaware, we've been ignorant of the crimes going on

Commander Andy Baker
Met Police


Q&A: Honour killings explained
As well as South Asian communities, some of the victims came from Arabic or eastern European backgrounds.

Motives for the murders often included relationships which the families felt brought them dishonour.

Police say some of the murders were carried out by contract killers hired by the families.

They also believe that so-called "bounty hunters" were involved - people, including women, who make a business out of tracking down victims.

My questions are; can these things really be happening in 2007? Shouldnt people be allowed to fall in love with whomever they choose - for once I am stumpred for words except to say that I am not judging this as a member of any religion - I dont want to be a member of any of them. There is possibly more than one religion involved anyway
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Jun 27, 2007 9:35 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
whiphersnapher
whiphersnapherwhiphersnaphermedina, Ohio USA33 Posts
yes it is happening in 2007

yes people should be able to love whomever they wish



but their are those4 that must force their will on others

ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

frustrated frustrated
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Jun 27, 2007 9:41 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
Jacko21
Jacko21Jacko21St. Pauls Bay, Majjistral Malta179 Threads 2,718 Posts
It has happened, does happen and will happen again in the future. Unfortunately the law of the land appears to mean little to certain people, cultures must respect the law of the land first and foremost.
Surely women, or young men for that matter must be able to choose their own partners in this day and age
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Jun 27, 2007 9:51 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
khan159
khan159khan159London, Greater London, England UK17 Threads 1,004 Posts
ok guys, we all were sad on these honour killing which is mostly done by muslim and doest matter which part of the world they are from.

Ok things are bit more complicated then you though before creating this thread.

If a girl is killed because she is loved a man without the will of there parents then she is killed.

In Islam everybody has got the right to chhose a man for themselves but there has to be modesty in that. They can see each other, talk but no more than that .........

Parents went wrong on two aspects, one they couldnt teach there kids what basically islam is and how much they are allowed to do thing and not

Secondly for killing the girl who really doesnt know anything about Islam and is a muslim cos she is born in a muslim family.


so i think Parent should be held responsible for this Act.......
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Jun 27, 2007 9:59 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
but isnt that a bit of a catch 22 - if the parents are to be held responsible for the shame a child has brought to their family and to their religion then still somebody has to pay the price, am I right there?

Isnt this a way of perpetuating the religion in question and therefore the whole thing becomes a most effective means of social control
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Jun 27, 2007 10:02 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
khan159
khan159khan159London, Greater London, England UK17 Threads 1,004 Posts
yes you are right

Parents are paying for this price,

1st the loose there love ones (even though they killed them but they brough them up, spend money on them etc etc)

2ndly they are convicted of murder and rest of the life either in jail or running.
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Jun 27, 2007 10:05 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
Jacko21
Jacko21Jacko21St. Pauls Bay, Majjistral Malta179 Threads 2,718 Posts
I rading this correctly in that as a women or guy for that matter is born into a Muslim family they have to follow that way of life? They have no freedom of choice in the matter?
For my 2 cents worth the Law of the land is THE ONLY LAW anything else can be used for guidance but is not imposed on anyone.
I as a parent can guide my child but not impose my will on him.
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Jun 27, 2007 10:05 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
Jacko21
Jacko21Jacko21St. Pauls Bay, Majjistral Malta179 Threads 2,718 Posts
am I reading
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Jun 27, 2007 10:08 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
khan159
khan159khan159London, Greater London, England UK17 Threads 1,004 Posts
Well, Teaching islam to their children is first and far most important thing for the parents. So, nobdoy is imposing things on them and even though if they are, they are doing for doing 4 there goodwill at the end of day.
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Jun 27, 2007 10:11 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
Jacko21
Jacko21Jacko21St. Pauls Bay, Majjistral Malta179 Threads 2,718 Posts
Rightly or wrongly I believe in free choice for the individual, my child asks me for advice, I'll give what I think is right, but at the end of the day the decisions in life are his.....I'm talking an adult here not school children
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Jun 27, 2007 10:12 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
So called "Honour Killing" is NOT restricted to any one religion, country or ethnic/ cultural background; it is wide spread across southern Europe, ie. Italy,(Sicily, even Sardinia), Corsica, Spain, Basque regions; then all around the Crimea/ Black Sea areas and other areas. Moslems do not have a monopoly , nor do the Hindus in India as the medias seem to try and insinuate. Certainly, Corsica and Sicily are not Muslim, nor Hindu, but nominally Catholic, as are most Mafia clans, much to their Church's shame and frustration in trying to halt / correct this mentality. One can...could say the same for so called "family feuds" all through Appalachia...only there, over time, the killing has been extended to all members of the clans. Among certain types of peoples, "honour" is always a good excuse to kill, get rid of others...
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Jun 27, 2007 10:17 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
i did say im my opening comment that there is probably more than one religion involved
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Jun 27, 2007 10:19 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
but theres the rub Kahn, they arent getting caught because there are so many others with the same honour at stake that they are happily covering for these people
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Jun 27, 2007 10:22 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
thumbs up me too Jacko - one time I didnt like a boyfriend of one of my daughters - it would have been such a shame if i had killed him because we later became really good friends. I learned to give the guy a break
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Jun 27, 2007 10:55 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
whiphersnapher
whiphersnapherwhiphersnaphermedina, Ohio USA33 Posts
maybe the problem is the religion

perhaps the religion higharchy should be held accountable


hhhhmmmmmmmm

doh
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Jun 27, 2007 11:00 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
I so agree, perhaps some kind of reformation
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Jun 27, 2007 11:06 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
whiphersnapher
whiphersnapherwhiphersnaphermedina, Ohio USA33 Posts
freedom of religion is one thing

put bringing harm to another
is not a freedom that should
ever be condoned

even in the name of religion

it seems kind of hypocritical
to kill one for dishonoring family

like murder would not be dishonorable

but most religion is hypocritical
about something

kinda like religion being the root of evil

dunno
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Jun 27, 2007 11:38 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
I think that everyone should be entitled to choice and where religious dogma spills over onto human rights it is time for lines to be drawn - somehow, whether that be by meetings between the patriarchs of a particular faith or the intervention of law - this inhumane control of people has to stop dunno

as you say, freedom of religion is one thing..........
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Jun 27, 2007 11:45 AM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
Quisling
QuislingQuislingDevon, UK1 Threads 211 Posts
I'm sorry, but to suggest religion is the problem is just not accurate. People with certain TWISTED religious convictions often carry out these disgraceful crimes, but they are not true to their respective faiths. wine
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Jun 27, 2007 1:59 PM CST Honour Killings investigated in England
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
There is a small grain of truth in that certain cults/ religions do foster murder; take a close look at the cult of Khali in 19th cent. India under the British; aka "stranglers". They lived to murder, simple as that, especially against the Brits and "unbelievers". The British military finally resorted to total force trying to wipe them out. Those that stood trial were, basically convicted of "a religion unfit to be practised", as others have. This cult still exists, but is no longer murdering people, of any particular nationality or religion. Why do you suppose that is? Were their original leaders wrong? They have made no such declaration. Neither have any leaders of other existing religions; yes the Pope has apologized for past events and so far he remains the only one. All religions have "over zelous" activists, as it were. Certainly the murderous revenge obsessed "Yahweh" of the Old Testament is one of the bloodiest so called Gods of history as were his followers of those times. No one has stepped forward to apologize for the crimes of genocide carried out under his teachings ...as interpreted by his priests...why not? People still believe in Yahweh, but they aren't on the rampage, at least not under a "religious" banner; some may argue that , actually they are under the guise of a political belief called Zionism...is that so far fetched....certainly not to its untold thousands of victims...
Should there be a world synod of all the religious leaders to formally draw up a sort of 10 Commandments of what makes for "a good" religion and what doesn't?? Not much chance of that is there, as the delegations would be rather large simply because, for the exception of the Pope, there is no one leader for any religion any longer. The Muslims as a whole had one until Israel branded him a criminal and put a bounty on his head: The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, he was the closest to "the Muslim Leader that all respected and revered; the Protestants, have no single leader; too many denominations and degrees of protests; Hindus simply do not believe in one head, the closest would be the Dalai Lama to represent them and the world's Buddhists. Interesting concept, but unworkable. So who would, could, can speak for all others? It would be a literal madhouse if tried, though the idea is interesting to try and come up with what can constitute "an acceptable religion" for all peoples; but this implies a world religion...and all the ramifications of such a radical concept; maybe just an agreement between all, that no more killing be done in any religions name; forget trying to enforce this for the time being...one step at a time...watch out for the landmines...they're everywhere.....
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