GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not? ( Archived) (163)

Jun 8, 2008 4:01 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
RillyNiceGuy
RillyNiceGuyRillyNiceGuySoutheast, Arkansas USA839 Threads 13,003 Posts
BnaturAl: sermons aren't supposed to be debated so you'll get no debate from me.


handshake Peace!
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Jun 8, 2008 4:32 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
trish123: Exactly Al, we progress whether or not current dogma approves - we are beyond the reaches of imposed moralities. Im not speaking only of Christianity here but of alll organised religion - the reason they get so annoyed at Atheists like myself is because they see that if our good sense reasoning gets to be common knowledge, then none of the priests or mullahas or immams will any longer have a job or roof over their heads...........


I think that applies to a number of things including the energy crisis, the oil biz, medical and pharmaceutical feilds, on and on. we have become dependant on what others tell us we need and or want, but we have also progressed because of it.

Still, I think there is usefullness in the 'notion' of god, by any name. Not sure how that applies to atheism because perhaps it doesn't. conversing Does it apply in any way to you, being atheist?
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Jun 8, 2008 4:48 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
BnaturAl: I think that applies to a number of things including the energy crisis, the oil biz, medical and pharmaceutical feilds, on and on. we have become dependant on what others tell us we need and or want, but we have also progressed because of it.

Still, I think there is usefullness in the 'notion' of god, by any name. Not sure how that applies to atheism because perhaps it doesn't. Does it apply in any way to you, being atheist?


Exactly Al - religions prepare us to be sheeple as opposed to independently thinking individuals - religions eschew individuality because they recognise that their apologists can only deal with so much - what a wonderful age we do exist in - heres to the freethinkers and the freedoms they have won us wine

The 'notion' of God I find really beautiful but the saying goes "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." [Richard Dawkins]
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Jun 8, 2008 5:13 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
BnaturAl:
part of the same energy but separate ..tentacles? how do we separate same?


The Source remains as it is. It does not diminish if it splinters itself and we are the expressions of those splinters in physical form. Separate, but connected by energy. So we are really never disconnected from the Source, for the Source is in us. However, our vibrational levels are not in unison with the Source level. I'll have to come up with a good analogy soon to put it in the clear.laugh I have mentioned the ocean and water drop analogy, but I think I need a new one.

BnaturAl:
I'm not sure there is a need to struggle but for discussions sake, how do we know good and bad? Since the assessment is relative. One plant that loses its life, provides nutrients to one that lives ... depending on which plant you care about, it changes your assessment of good or bad.?


It's intuitive. The problem is that not everybody is on the same page concerning whether the objects of value are subjective psychological states, or objective states of the world. What's good for some is usually what is best for them in an individual and collective sense. Depends on the society and culture you live in.

BnaturAl: You have the power to create, manifest ... that would be powers associated with a god, which if you beleive, makes you god, therefore no separation from this god exists.

I'm afraid you can't have free will within someone else's plan since you'd be doing the will of their plan. You may get some holidays to play around with it, but be back to work on monday .


True, I cannot will a particular somebody into my plan or reality (friend, ex, or family member) and have them come and be as I wished. I can only attract people who share the same vibrational frequency as I do. Can be good or bad depending on what type of energy(positive or negative and in between) that you are projecting that is a result of your powerful thoughts. And whoever you attract or what you attract(provided that it is good), should be seen as a gift. It is not intended to coerce anyone or impose your will on somebody else with selfish thoughts and desires. The free will involves my life and reality. What comes as a result, I roll with what I have been given and asked for.

I can exercise part of this God Source that exists in me. Using my magical force to attract what I want and not what I don't want. I am not fully with the God Source, just a certain percent of it here in this world because this manifestation of my true happiness and what I want takes time and it is not instant. Plus it is an ongoing project to stay true to the plan of evolving our energy and ascend away from this stupid world. It is a challenge for me to overcome all the obstacles that I will encounter in my journey. If I want to succeed, then only I have the power to ultimately think of what I want, align myself with that, and keep believing with no doubts...then the magic comes accompanied by my increased happiness, love, and harmony. Thus enabling my soul/karma/energy/force to speed up and change planes of existence. Then in the next plane, there are even more challenges waiting for me on a different level of course.
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Jun 8, 2008 5:19 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
trish123: Exactly Al - religions prepare us to be sheeple as opposed to independently thinking individuals - religions eschew individuality because they recognise that their apologists can only deal with so much - what a wonderful age we do exist in - heres to the freethinkers and the freedoms they have won us

The 'notion' of God I find really beautiful but the saying goes "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." [Richard Dawkins]


I would agree for the most part, but I do know some very open minded free thinkers who do think for themselves despite being religious. Aries would be one of them. I have classified her as a Progressive Christian which is a good thing in my book. I know a Muslim man who is very freethinking and continually questions his meaning for existence and our existence outside of his dogmatic education. He looks for other truths that connect with his religion and his own ideas in a freethinking sense.
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Jun 8, 2008 5:31 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
StressFree: I would agree for the most part, but I do know some very open minded free thinkers who do think for themselves despite being religious. Aries would be one of them. I have classified her as a Progressive Christian which is a good thing in my book. I know a Muslim man who is very freethinking and continually questions his meaning for existence and our existence outside of his dogmatic education. He looks for other truths that connect with his religion and his own ideas in a freethinking sense.


Aries has only recently embraced Christianity and I do not deny that there are 'progressive' Christians - its simply that they do deny me my beliefs - I personally know many intelligent people who adhere to one religion or another, seemingly, intelligence isnt a prerequisite anyway as blind faith doesnt require too much of that......
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Jun 8, 2008 6:01 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
trish123: Aries has only recently embraced Christianity and I do not deny that there are 'progressive' Christians - its simply that they do deny me my beliefs - I personally know many intelligent people who adhere to one religion or another, seemingly, intelligence isnt a prerequisite anyway as blind faith doesnt require too much of that......


I agree, most of them do deny my beliefs as well. They like the parts when we are in agreement, but when I move away from some of their subjective concepts concerning our existence, God, Heaven and Hell, sin/good deeds vs karma, and judgment day, then things can get a little heated....from their end.
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Jun 8, 2008 6:09 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
StressFree: I agree, most of them do deny my beliefs as well. They like the parts when we are in agreement, but when I move away from some of their subjective concepts concerning our existence, God, Heaven and Hell, sin/good deeds vs karma, and judgment day, then things can get a little heated....from their end.


Exactly, when their coercion/apologetics are seemingly working, all is well, but fly in the face of this to your own peril grin I have even had some deny the existence of apologetics - on this site too laugh it does get pretty bizarre here from time to time laugh
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Jun 8, 2008 6:20 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
trish123: Exactly, when their coercion/apologetics are seemingly working, all is well, but fly in the face of this to your own peril I have even had some deny the existence of apologetics - on this site too it does get pretty bizarre here from time to time


you guys need to mellow out laugh

so you've said that as a concept it is 'beyond repraoch' and 'beautiful', am I to assume then that you find it useful, which was the question and in what way?
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Jun 8, 2008 6:33 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
BnaturAl: you guys need to mellow out

so you've said that as a concept it is 'beyond repraoch' and 'beautiful', am I to assume then that you find it useful, which was the question and in what way?


No, I didnt say that I found it useful, I said beyond reproach as a concept and beautiful, I meant as an idyllic way to live - unfortunately, the concepts are overshadowed by actualities portrayed in the Bible, the blood lust and determination for control of peoples minds scare me right off........... but useful - no way - unless you are attempting a media or political coup laugh
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Jun 8, 2008 6:41 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
StressFree: I agree, most of them do deny my beliefs as well. They like the parts when we are in agreement, but when I move away from some of their subjective concepts concerning our existence, God, Heaven and Hell, sin/good deeds vs karma, and judgment day, then things can get a little heated....from their end.


perception is reality

'from their end'?

this is what im saying-its not even sensible to use terms like 'they'
and i know for sure when non christians are referred to in any such way there is always a hubbub

as long as bigotry in our communication is accepted none of us will have peace-thats what i think

i must believe whether its a fairy or a wizard or christ or gumby
or even "nothing/noone" there is clearly a design of minutia
that is like a set of gears moving things along
and if it is a nothingness i still dont believe the outcome will be negative unless people continue this separational segragational type thinking and speaking

who cares what THEY are doing-what am I doing
who put that sense of responsibility in me...hmmmm
confused
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Jun 8, 2008 6:42 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
j_goose71: Not.

It blinds people and makes them sheeple. And it allows people to blame an invisible diety for the wrongs of the world.

The idea of free will isn't real when discussing god. Here's why....



No. You are way off the mark about me Goose. I don't blame God for anything. It's my choice to be a good human being, just as it is yours. Religions do have a lot of great messages that allow us to learn about our nature as human beings. It provides sound wisdom. I do like reading Proverbs in the New Testament.

Tell me what is so wrong with Proverbs10:23 - "A fool finds pleasure in evil conduct, but a man of understanding delights in wisdom."
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Jun 8, 2008 6:45 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
mindfful:
i mean honestly-in society and especially among a few zealots on both sides around here, apparently the archetype is extremely useful as fodder for a continues source of hyperbole.


exaggeration is the prerogative of passionate people as are absolutes the banner of the mundane.

In response to:

besides its not ever been suggested as religion-but a relationship- religion is an abomination of the original intention.
and as such-BAM! legalism and sick entitlement and power struggles and greed and war and taxes and and and

so i guess yeah-its been useful for many things-no all positive.
Al


hi MF wave I guess relationship was more where I was headed in the OP, (though it has taken a few tangeants), which implies, useful to you.

but youre right, the concept, the notion, the ideal, has been used and useful to many, not all for good, but that too is subjective.
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Jun 8, 2008 6:49 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
mindfful: perception is reality

'from their end'?

this is what im saying-its not even sensible to use terms like 'they'
and i know for sure when non christians are referred to in any such way there is always a hubbub

as long as bigotry in our communication is accepted none of us will have peace-thats what i think

i must believe whether its a fairy or a wizard or christ or gumby
or even "nothing/noone" there is clearly a design of minutia
that is like a set of gears moving things along
and if it is a nothingness i still dont believe the outcome will be negative unless people continue this separational segragational type thinking and speaking

who cares what THEY are doing-what am I doing
who put that sense of responsibility in me...hmmmm


okay mindfful, I should have said Christians. My bad woman. No need to blow this up. I was just lazy to type out Christians....typing they is faster.tongue

Nice of you to try and put a spin on this. Our communication you say? Are you trying to separate you and I from CS?roll eyes

You get it now? Goodlips
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Jun 8, 2008 6:56 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
trish123: ........... but useful - no way - unless you are attempting a media or political coup


how can anything that is beyond reproach and beautiful be useless? tongue

ok, no I am not planning a coup but lets see if I can clarify the intent. I think goose mentioned it in an earlier post, the phrase "what would jesus do?"

Now I'm not suggesting buying into religion or jesus or god for that matter. But, as an archetype, as rule for character and behavior in times when you just can't grasp whats going on or what to do, asking yourself perhaps "what would a good person do in this case?"

The assignment of an archetype helps in reaching that answer because the character of that archetype is in your consciousness either from memory or having read, or learned about that particular archetype. For all intents and purposes it could be ghandi or claudia jennings, the actual archetype or idol is inconsequential.

The other aspect is in awareness. Most times we are acting our lives out without ever becoming aware of a higher self or for some, a higher being if you will. Having the archetype lends focus to that awareness.

clearer? or have I muddied the coup?

laugh
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Jun 8, 2008 7:10 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
oh and SF i forgot to say stick your smarty pants comment down your smarty pants and fondle it awhile
as i have no use for it

aaand i wasnt gettin wound up or whatever
just havin a conversation

sheesh


rolling on the floor laughing

here
eat something
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Jun 8, 2008 7:10 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
burger
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Jun 8, 2008 7:21 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
BnaturAl: how can anything that is beyond reproach and beautiful be useless?

ok, no I am not planning a coup but lets see if I can clarify the intent. I think goose mentioned it in an earlier post, the phrase "what would jesus do?"

Now I'm not suggesting buying into religion or jesus or god for that matter. But, as an archetype, as rule for character and behavior in times when you just can't grasp whats going on or what to do, asking yourself perhaps "what would a good person do in this case?"

The assignment of an archetype helps in reaching that answer because the character of that archetype is in your consciousness either from memory or having read, or learned about that particular archetype. For all intents and purposes it could be ghandi or claudia jennings, the actual archetype or idol is inconsequential.

The other aspect is in awareness. Most times we are acting our lives out without ever becoming aware of a higher self or for some, a higher being if you will. Having the archetype lends focus to that awareness.

clearer? or have I muddied the coup?





i like this post Al

yes what would a good person do..?

but ive known a lot of good people
but i also in my years of experience-my own experience-ive known alot of people-more than an average person knows i think
and ive come to believe there are good people but that we are self centered, self driven, just...human

i like an archetype to model after, strive to be a better me
i know i have deep dark motivations and secrets we all do

self serving, resentful, oversensitive-gossipy, covetous
all sorts of things
i have idols-as in priorities get out of whack-food, tv, whatever
i find it quite a useful archetype and model/mentoring
and very comforting that im not the be all end all to save people
situations, i neednt worry-i can do what i should do and god can see to the rest

its a load off

example-i have 12 12-14 yr olds that i am very involved with
these are considered at risk kids-meaning kids w/ no home life
no adult role models no hope etc etc
i have come to love them each in their own way exactly where they are-i have had the privilege to be loved and appreciated by them and give them some hope-be one adult in their life that shows up
and consistently...i am moving...i was for a short time (and still a pang of it when one of em falls into my arms and says dont go)
i was just feeling awful and wrong-but actually its inside out ego-thinking i am the utter answer to these kids' lives

i have a comfort knowing that the seeds that have been planted can be nurtured along by other support they will get-
it doesnt have to be me. i dont have to be responsible
i just have to love as best as i can while i can.
its not all up to me-i need to feel that and others opinions dont matter-in fact ive had adults say-how can you go and leave them-my answer must be-for all of us-that i can go in faith
that we will all get what we need-im not the end all for anyone
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Jun 8, 2008 7:23 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada107 Threads 7 Polls 6,811 Posts
mindfful: i like this post Al

yes what would a good person do..?

but ive known a lot of good people
but i also in my years of experience-my own experience-ive known alot of people-more than an average person knows i think
and ive come to believe there are good people but that we are self centered, self driven, just...human

i like an archetype to model after, strive to be a better me
i know i have deep dark motivations and secrets we all do

self serving, resentful, oversensitive-gossipy, covetous
all sorts of things
i have idols-as in priorities get out of whack-food, tv, whatever
i find it quite a useful archetype and model/mentoring
and very comforting that im not the be all end all to save people
situations, i neednt worry-i can do what i should do and god can see to the rest

its a load off

example-i have 12 12-14 yr olds that i am very involved with
these are considered at risk kids-meaning kids w/ no home life
no adult role models no hope etc etc
i have come to love them each in their own way exactly where they are-i have had the privilege to be loved and appreciated by them and give them some hope-be one adult in their life that shows up
and consistently...i am moving...i was for a short time (and still a pang of it when one of em falls into my arms and says dont go)
i was just feeling awful and wrong-but actually its inside out ego-thinking i am the utter answer to these kids' lives

i have a comfort knowing that the seeds that have been planted can be nurtured along by other support they will get-
it doesnt have to be me. i dont have to be responsible
i just have to love as best as i can while i can.
its not all up to me-i need to feel that and others opinions dont matter-in fact ive had adults say-how can you go and leave them-my answer must be-for all of us-that i can go in faith
that we will all get what we need-im not the end all for anyone


that was indeed the meaning of my OP. kiss
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Jun 8, 2008 7:27 PM CST GOD is a Notion, Useful or Not?
StressFree
StressFreeStressFreesmall city, Kalmar Sweden176 Threads 16 Polls 8,986 Posts
mindfful: oh and SF i forgot to say stick your smarty pants comment down your smarty pants and fondle it awhile
as i have no use for it

aaand i wasnt gettin wound up or whatever
just havin a conversation

sheesh

here
eat something


pics? devil love
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