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Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?................. ( Archived) (240)

Sep 2, 2008 4:23 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
Should drugs, ALL drugs be free for everyone?.................

The war on drugs has been lost a loooong time ago.
You read about the large catch the cops make at times.
Much ado it made about it.
The truth is; Not even 10% is confiscated.
Think how many people would lose their job alone in the police forse already.

How much crime would be elliminated, job lose for many there too, judges, jailhouse keepers etc. etc?
Anything that is iligal has more of an attraction, would it be so
when you can get drugs free and anytime, anywhere?



teddybear
------ This thread is Archived ------
Sep 2, 2008 4:25 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl: Should drugs, ALL drugs be free for everyone?.................

The war on drugs has been lost a loooong time ago.
You read about the large catch the cops make at times.
Much ado it made about it.
The truth is; Not even 10% is confiscated.
Think how many people would lose their job alone in the police forse already.

How much crime would be elliminated, job lose for many there too, judges, jailhouse keepers etc. etc?
Anything that is iligal has more of an attraction, would it be so
when you can get drugs free and anytime, anywhere?
And who's gonna pay for it.
The Drugs and the Treatment afterward????????dunno
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Sep 2, 2008 4:27 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
tipaly81
tipaly81tipaly81Moscow, Idaho USA71 Threads 15 Polls 1,334 Posts
hollandgirl: Should drugs, ALL drugs be free for everyone?.................

The war on drugs has been lost a loooong time ago.
You read about the large catch the cops make at times.
Much ado it made about it.
The truth is; Not even 10% is confiscated.
Think how many people would lose their job alone in the police forse already.

How much crime would be elliminated, job lose for many there too, judges, jailhouse keepers etc. etc?
Anything that is iligal has more of an attraction, would it be so
when you can get drugs free and anytime, anywhere?



There are some drugs that might get a bad reputation from all the publicity and such. They aren't as bad as some that I have seen. For example, pot vs. meth. Pot is a plant, and if they don't mess around with the darn stuff, it is fine. But meth is nothig but harmful chemicals and nasty stuff. It literally destroys a persons body and mind. Turns it into swiss cheese.
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Sep 2, 2008 4:30 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
tufty
tuftytuftyChelmsford, Essex, England UK4 Threads 1,297 Posts
tipaly81: pot vs. meth. Pot is a plant, and if they don't mess around with the darn stuff, it is fine.



Try telling that to a brain dead dopehead


Or a brain dead dopehead thats just ran into you while driving a car.....


roll eyes
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Sep 2, 2008 4:34 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
Conrad73: And who's gonna pay for it.
The Drugs and the Treatment afterward????????


You should be able to buy it like you can alcohol.
Drugs are very cheap to make.
I firmly believe that when made legal less people will
start using.
Mabye not in the very beginning.teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 4:39 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
hollandgirl: You should be able to buy it like you can alcohol.
Drugs are very cheap to make.
I firmly believe that when made legal less people will
start using.
Mabye not in the very beginning.


The Canadian governement was ready to make Marijuana legal for personal use, the Americans said; NO
Holland has made Marijana legal but unless all other countries follow suit it is not working.

teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 4:41 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
crotalus_p
crotalus_pcrotalus_pRush, Dublin Ireland57 Threads 7 Polls 3,812 Posts
hollandgirl: You should be able to buy it like you can alcohol.
Drugs are very cheap to make.
I firmly believe that when made legal less people will
start using.

Mabye not in the very beginning.


It would appear that , that is true , more cannabis is smoked in London per head than in Amsterdam where it is legal, I would not say make all drugs free but I would say make them all legal , the only people that benefit from a war on drugs are the dealers , the politicians and all the people the tax payer pays to enforce the laws
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Sep 2, 2008 4:42 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
scott5306hotmail
scott5306hotmailscott5306hotmailsaint louis, Missouri USA3 Posts
Damn straight they should all be legalized. If someone wants to destroy their own life that is 100% their choice. To the man that asks who is going to pay for the rehab: who do you think pays for it now? what do you think prisons are filled with? prison is almost exclusively a forced rehab ran by the gov't and has been running for decades. Everybody assumes prison&jail is murderers, rapists, etc. but this is untrue. Over 85% of prisons and jails are alcohol and drug addicts. The bottom line; Prisons are a business and huge employer in this country and if you do away with illegal drugs you do away with over a million jobs and, in turn, unemployment skyrockets in these prison towns that are economically hurting. barf
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Sep 2, 2008 4:44 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada82 Threads 3 Polls 34,865 Posts
hollandgirl: The Canadian governement was ready to make Marijuana legal for personal use, the Americans said; NO
Holland has made Marijana legal but unless all other countries follow suit it is not working.



I agree with Marijuana....not being free but legal..I don't see it as being a much harder drug than drinking but I don't agree with the harder drugs....they do too much damage to people and their lives as far as addiction goes etc....wine
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Sep 2, 2008 4:45 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
Jan1305
Jan1305Jan1305Sunshine and vino, Murcia Spain199 Threads 7,310 Posts
hollandgirl: You should be able to buy it like you can alcohol.
Drugs are very cheap to make.
I firmly believe that when made legal less people will
start using.
Mabye not in the very beginning.


Legal equals less consumption? What, like alcohol?

I'm not saying I disagree with the decriminalisation of certain drugs, but I don't believe it will result in less use.
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Sep 2, 2008 4:45 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
crotalus_p: It would appear that , that is true , more cannabis is smoked in London per head than in Amsterdam where it is legal, I would not say make all drugs free but I would say make them all legal , the only people that benefit from a war on drugs are the dealers , the politicians and all the people the tax payer pays to enforce the laws


This is my point exactly; make it legal, this is what I meant by free.
Yes too many people making a living from the iligal drugs to make it legal, so it is all political


teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 4:49 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
scott5306hotmail: Damn straight they should all be legalized. If someone wants to destroy their own life that is 100% their choice. To the man that asks who is going to pay for the rehab: who do you think pays for it now? what do you think prisons are filled with? prison is almost exclusively a forced rehab ran by the gov't and has been running for decades. Everybody assumes prison&jail is murderers, rapists, etc. but this is untrue. Over 85% of prisons and jails are alcohol and drug addicts. The bottom line; Prisons are a business and huge employer in this country and if you do away with illegal drugs you do away with over a million jobs and, in turn, unemployment skyrockets in these prison towns that are economically hurting.



My point too. Yes this is the real reason drugs are not made legal, too many people making a living from the drug trade.
The war on drugs has been not only lost, "they" know it!





teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 4:50 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
tipaly81
tipaly81tipaly81Moscow, Idaho USA71 Threads 15 Polls 1,334 Posts
tufty: Try telling that to a brain dead dopehead Or a brain dead dopehead thats just ran into you while driving a car.....


Potheads are less likely to put up a fight. Meth heads are more likely to steal, cheat and contract Hep C, because some use needles. There are several in my area that are my age and are dealing w/ Hep C right now. They have no clue as to how it can ruin your body and you mind. By the time they try to get off of it the damage is already done.

Some may think that pot kills brain cells, but Meth turns you into a walking corpse like those film reels about WWII, when the ally's took the concentration camps. Those people stumbling around, naked and stick skinny - that is what a methhead almost looks like. Only they are a little crazier looking.
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Sep 2, 2008 4:51 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
Jan1305: Legal equals less consumption? What, like alcohol?

I'm not saying I disagree with the decriminalisation of certain drugs, but I don't believe it will result in less use.


Many would disagree with you.
Wished I had the articles writen about this subject.

teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 4:54 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
10 Reasons to legalise all drugs
comment from Transform: the campaign for effective drug policy


1 Address the real issues
For too long policy makers have used prohibition as a smoke screen to avoid addressing the social and economic factors that lead people to use drugs. Most illegal and legal drug use is recreational. Poverty and despair are at the root of most problematic drug use and it is only by addressing these underlying causes that we can hope to significantly decrease the number of problematic users.

2 Eliminate the criminal market place
The market for drugs is demand-led and millions of people demand illegal drugs. Making the production, supply and use of some drugs illegal creates a vacuum into which organised crime moves. The profits are worth billions of pounds. Legalisation forces organised crime from the drugs trade, starves them of income and enables us to regulate and control the market (i.e. prescription, licensing, laws on sales to minors, advertising regulations etc.)

3 Massively reduce crime
The price of illegal drugs is determined by a demand-led, unregulated market. Using illegal drugs is very expensive. This means that some dependent users resort to stealing to raise funds (accounting for 50% of UK property crime - estimated at £2 billion a year). Most of the violence associated with illegal drug dealing is caused by its illegality

Legalisation would enable us to regulate the market, determine a much lower price and remove users need to raise funds through crime. Our legal system would be freed up and our prison population dramatically reduced, saving billions. Because of the low price, cigarette smokers do not have to steal to support their habits. There is also no violence associated with the legal tobacco market.



4 Drug users are a majority
Recent research shows that nearly half of all 15-16 year olds have used an illegal drug. Up to one and a half million people use ecstasy every weekend. Amongst young people, illegal drug use is seen as normal. Intensifying the 'war on drugs' is not reducing demand. In Holland, where cannabis laws are far less harsh, drug usage is amongst the lowest in Europe.

Legalisation accepts that drug use is normal and that it is a social issue, not a criminal justice one. How we deal with it is up to all of us to decide.

In 1970 there were 9000 convictions or cautions for drug offences and 15% of young people had used an illegal drug. In 1995 the figures were 94 000 and 45%. Prohibition doesn't work.

5 Provide access to truthful information and education
A wealth of disinformation about drugs and drug use is given to us by ignorant and prejudiced policy-makers and media who peddle myths upon lies for their own ends. This creates many of the risks and dangers associated with drug use.

Legalisation would help us to disseminate open, honest and truthful information to users and non-users to help them to make decisions about whether and how to use. We could begin research again on presently illicit drugs to discover all their uses and effects - both positive and negative.


teddybear
------ This thread is Archived ------
Sep 2, 2008 4:54 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
Jan1305
Jan1305Jan1305Sunshine and vino, Murcia Spain199 Threads 7,310 Posts
hollandgirl: Many would disagree with you.
Wished I had the articles writen about this subject.


Come to Russia where the average life expectancy for men is 59 and the biggest reason for premature death is alcohol abuse. Drugs are a problem here too, but alcohol is legal.

I'm not a teetotaller by the way.
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Sep 2, 2008 4:57 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
6 Make all drug use safer
Prohibition has led to the stigmatisation and marginalisation of drug users. Countries that operate ultra-prohibitionist policies have very high rates of HIV infection amongst injecting users. Hepatitis C rates amongst users in the UK are increasing substantially.

In the UK in the '80's clean needles for injecting users and safer sex education for young people were made available in response to fears of HIV. Harm reduction policies are in direct opposition to prohibitionist laws.



7 Restore our rights and responsibilities
Prohibition unnecessarily criminalises millions of otherwise law-abiding people. It removes the responsibility for distribution of drugs from policy makers and hands it over to unregulated, sometimes violent dealers.

Legalisation restores our right to use drugs responsibly to change the way we think and feel. It enables controls and regulations to be put in place to protect the vulnerable.

8 Race and Drugs
Black people are over ten times more likely to be imprisoned for drug offences than whites. Arrests for drug offences are notoriously discretionary allowing enforcement to easily target a particular ethnic group. Prohibition has fostered this stereotyping of black people.

Legalisation removes a whole set of laws that are used to disproportionately bring black people into contact with the criminal justice system. It would help to redress the over representation of black drug offenders in prison.

9 Global Implications
The illegal drugs market makes up 8% of all world trade (around £300 billion a year). Whole countries are run under the corrupting influence of drug cartels. Prohibition also enables developed countries to wield vast political power over producer nations under the auspices of drug control programmes.

Legalisation returns lost revenue to the legitimate taxed economy and removes some of the high-level corruption. It also removes a tool of political interference by foreign countries against producer nations.

10 Prohibition doesn't work
There is no evidence to show that prohibition is succeeding. The question we must ask ourselves is, "What are the benefits of criminalising any drug?" If, after examining all the available evidence, we find that the costs outweigh the benefits, then we must seek an alternative policy.

Legalisation is not a cure-all but it does allow us to address many of the problems associated with drug use, and those created by prohibition. The time has come for an effective and pragmatic drug policy.



"If the (drug) problem continues advancing as it is at the moment, we're going to be faced with some very frightening options. Either you have a massive reduction in civil rights or you have to look at some radical solutions. The issue has to be, can a criminal justice system solve this particular problem?"
Commander John Grieve, Criminal Intelligence Unit, Scotland Yard, Channel 4 1997

Copyright Transform Campaign for effective drug policy
Easton Business Centre Felix Road Easton Bristol BS1 0HE
Telephone: +44 (0) 117 941 5810 Facsimile: +44 (0) 117 941 5809 Email: [email protected]
web:www.transform-drugs.org.uk


teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 5:00 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
gongman
gongmangongmanCarcassone, Occitanie France35 Threads 2 Polls 698 Posts
I was in a coffee shop in Holland when a car pulled up outside and a guy walked in with a delivery.I asked my Dutch companion if they were worried about someone stealing the package during the delivery.Banks take strict precautions to prevent this as we all know,and judging by the size of the parcel it was pretty valuable!

OK she said,say you did steal it.What are you going to do with it? Sell it?

In Holland if you want weed or shit you go to a coffee shop.Simple. Why buy stolen goods?

So,less crime and the coffee shop owners pay tax to the government.
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Sep 2, 2008 5:05 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
hollandgirl
hollandgirlhollandgirlSomewhere in Canada. B.C., British Columbia Canada711 Threads 6,072 Posts
Guest columnist

Legalize drugs — all of them
By Norm Stamper

Special to the Los Angeles Times

PREV of NEXT





Norm Stamper


Sometimes people in law enforcement will hear it whispered that I'm a former cop who favors decriminalization of marijuana laws, and they'll approach me the way they might a traitor or snitch. So let me set the record straight.

Yes, I was a cop for 34 years, the last six of which I spent as chief of Seattle's police department.

But no, I don't favor decriminalization. I favor legalization, and not just of pot but of all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, meth, psychotropics, mushrooms and LSD.

Decriminalization, as my colleagues in the drug-reform movement hasten to inform me, takes the crime out of using drugs but continues to classify possession and use as a public offense, punishable by fines.

I've never understood why adults shouldn't enjoy the same right to use verboten drugs as they have to suck on a Marlboro or knock back a scotch and water.

Prohibition of alcohol fell flat on its face. The prohibition of other drugs rests on an equally wobbly foundation. Not until we choose to frame responsible drug use — not an oxymoron in my dictionary — as a civil liberty will we be able to recognize the abuse of drugs, including alcohol, for what it is: a medical, not a criminal, matter.

As a cop, I bore witness to the multiple lunacies of the "war on drugs." Lasting far longer than any other of our national conflicts, the drug war has been prosecuted with equal vigor by Republican and Democratic administrations, with one president after another — Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush — delivering sanctimonious sermons, squandering vast sums of taxpayer money and cheerleading law enforcers from the safety of the sidelines.

It's not a stretch to conclude that our Draconian approach to drug use is the most injurious domestic policy since slavery. Want to cut back on prison overcrowding and save a bundle on the construction of new facilities? Open the doors, let the nonviolent drug offenders go. The huge increases in federal and state prison populations during the 1980s and '90s (from 139 per 100,000 residents in 1980 to 482 per 100,000 in 2003) were mainly for drug convictions. In 1980, 580,900 Americans were arrested on drug charges. By 2003, that figure had ballooned to 1,678,200. We're making more arrests for drug offenses than for murder, manslaughter, forcible rape and aggravated assault combined. Feel safer?



teddybear
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Sep 2, 2008 5:06 PM CST Should drugs, ALL drugs be available and free for anyone who wants them?.................
jampet
jampetjampetwexford, Wexford Ireland40 Threads 1 Polls 3,914 Posts
i think it is a bit of a 'swings and roundabouts' thing- legalisation may well lead to more people taking drugs, but the amount of crime involved in procuring the money to buy drugs would plummet- how much police time and money is spent on the war against drugs?? that could be put to use to help those that really want to get off them.
alcohol is a much more dangerous drug that most of us use- i believe it causes much more violence and death than drugs, even hard drugs- much more car accidents and ciolent deaths are caused by alcohol than by drug use ( my own beliefs and experiencs as a nurse, please don't ask for statistics)
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