"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
crotalus_p: "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
haha, I wonder just how long it will stay peaceful - but good idea
crotalus_p: "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
crotalus_p: "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence."
Trish, Crotalus
Faith to me, is a self-belief within yourself (not to be confused with egotism), rather than following the brainwashed herd who believe that there's a God that looked after them in their fragile shelter like cocoon of an existence!
Faith to me, is a self-belief within yourself (not to be confused with egotism), rather than following the brainwashed herd who believe that there's a God that looked after them in their fragile shelter like cocoon of an existence!
HERE'S SOME COFFEE!!!
Hiya Punk
thats how I see it too and the problems set in when faith is encouraged over reason........
crotalus_p: May be not someone has made a counter thread if they stick to theirs and we stick to ours (o who am I kidding that will never happen )
I wish it would though - Id really love to get into this discussion, to ask and answer some real questions instead of the constant bickering and being told how wrong and mistaken we are
I copied these from the village Atheist site - they should give us something to be going on with........
1. I see absolutely no empirical or physical evidence for the existence of God. Suggestions such as "there must be a God because of the wonder of nature and the universe" are childishly stupid and don't stand up to even a moment of critical consideration. Many of the wonders of nature can be perfectly well explained through science - those that can't will be in time as our scientific knowledge expands.
2. On the contrary, I see much evidence for the non-existence of any God. The world is full of cruelty, poverty, disease and unhappiness, and I cannot accept that a loving and merciful God would allow this situation to exist.
3. I am unwilling to accept on blind faith what seem to me to be fantastic stories of long-ago events which were poorly documented many years after they supposedly happened. The Gospels were written 70 - 100 years after the supposed death of Jesus, in an age without newspapers, TV or computers, and with few written records. How can anyone give any credibility to stories written on the basis of such flimsy records?
4. The Bible is meant to be the cornerstone of the Christian religion - but the Bible isn't credible , so Christianity and belief in God has no plausible basis. Many people have complained to me that the examples of Biblical faults that I quote on this site are all from the Old Testament. They say to me things like "the Old Testament ideas were replaced by a New Truth with the coming of Jesus in the New Testament". Rubbish. Is the God of the New Testament a different God to the God of the Old Testament? Of course not. Did this single God dramatically change his attitudes and personality between the Old and New Testaments? I think not - and if he did, why? No, the God, is the same old angry, vengeful, merciless God, it's just the writers who have changed, now trying the improve the image of their fictional hero.
These same people try to overlook the faults and ridiculous assertions of the Bible by saying that they are "translation errors" and "parables, not meant to be taken literally", and they try to ignore them. But they apply these descriptions only to the parts of the Bible that they don't like, or that cause them embarassment. The parts that sound good are always, of course, absolutely true. I think this is highly hypocritical. The Christian religion is based on what the Bible says. Those who choose to accept only certain parts of the Bible (the "good" parts) and reject the rest as errors or parables, are in essence creating their own separate religion. Let them be honest and give this religion another name - not "Christianity" - and explain to us the basis and origin of their beliefs. I have more respect for fundamentalist Christians, who at least have the courage to stand by and try to defend what their Holy Book tells them, however absurd it might be, than I do for the typical modern "Christian" (including most priests and vicars) who jump through hoops to try to keep their religion acceptable to ordinary people.
5. Even if it were all true, the Bible describes a God and a morality that I don't want anything to do with.
Then is that not just self belief if you are not using a deity or higherpower then useing the word "Faith" leaves you open to being misinterpreted does it not ??
livinglargein a good place, Kildare Ireland5,879 posts
trish123: I copied these from the village Atheist site - they should give us something to be going on with........
1. I see absolutely no empirical or physical evidence for the existence of God. Suggestions such as "there must be a God because of the wonder of nature and the universe" are childishly stupid and don't stand up to even a moment of critical consideration. Many of the wonders of nature can be perfectly well explained through science - those that can't will be in time as our scientific knowledge expands.
2. On the contrary, I see much evidence for the non-existence of any God. The world is full of cruelty, poverty, disease and unhappiness, and I cannot accept that a loving and merciful God would allow this situation to exist.
3. I am unwilling to accept on blind faith what seem to me to be fantastic stories of long-ago events which were poorly documented many years after they supposedly happened. The Gospels were written 70 - 100 years after the supposed death of Jesus, in an age without newspapers, TV or computers, and with few written records. How can anyone give any credibility to stories written on the basis of such flimsy records?
4. The Bible is meant to be the cornerstone of the Christian religion - but the Bible isn't credible , so Christianity and belief in God has no plausible basis. Many people have complained to me that the examples of Biblical faults that I quote on this site are all from the Old Testament. They say to me things like "the Old Testament ideas were replaced by a New Truth with the coming of Jesus in the New Testament". Rubbish. Is the God of the New Testament a different God to the God of the Old Testament? Of course not. Did this single God dramatically change his attitudes and personality between the Old and New Testaments? I think not - and if he did, why? No, the God, is the same old angry, vengeful, merciless God, it's just the writers who have changed, now trying the improve the image of their fictional hero.
These same people try to overlook the faults and ridiculous assertions of the Bible by saying that they are "translation errors" and "parables, not meant to be taken literally", and they try to ignore them. But they apply these descriptions only to the parts of the Bible that they don't like, or that cause them embarassment. The parts that sound good are always, of course, absolutely true. I think this is highly hypocritical. The Christian religion is based on what the Bible says. Those who choose to accept only certain parts of the Bible (the "good" parts) and reject the rest as errors or parables, are in essence creating their own separate religion. Let them be honest and give this religion another name - not "Christianity" - and explain to us the basis and origin of their beliefs. I have more respect for fundamentalist Christians, who at least have the courage to stand by and try to defend what their Holy Book tells them, however absurd it might be, than I do for the typical modern "Christian" (including most priests and vicars) who jump through hoops to try to keep their religion acceptable to ordinary people.
5. Even if it were all true, the Bible describes a God and a morality that I don't want anything to do with.
Come on Trish ! Surely you can see that cruelty etc are done with the free will of men (humans) and not a design of God , I am surprised as you are more clever abd balanced than that , PS a big hello to you and CrotalusP
crotalus_p: Then is that not just self belief if you are not using a deity or higherpower then useing the word "Faith" leaves you open to being misinterpreted does it not ??
Hmm....yeah I suppose, never thought of it as open to misinterpretation ... maybe I should replace faith with trust then?
Faith to me, is a self-belief within yourself (not to be confused with egotism), rather than following the brainwashed herd who believe that there's a God that looked after them in their fragile shelter like cocoon of an existence!
HERE'S SOME COFFEE!!!
Well said
I personally think that religion was the "Governments" way of enforcing order ... The commandments seem more like simple laws to me .. in which we are to believe if we do not abide by them we shall burn in hell?
There are far too many contradictions in the catholic religion to keep me interested
livinglarge: Come on Trish ! Surely you can see that cruelty etc are done with the free will of men (humans) and not a design of God , I am surprised as you are more clever abd balanced than that , PS a big hello to you and CrotalusP
I think the point is that cruelty is encouraged in the Bible, of course, not the bits people get in sunday sermons or the stuff they use to hook children in either - but the book is replete with cruely
livinglargein a good place, Kildare Ireland5,879 posts
trish123: I think the point is that cruelty is encouraged in the Bible, of course, not the bits people get in sunday sermons or the stuff they use to hook children in either - but the book is replete with cruely
Yes true , however , that is the way human beings have treated each other for eons , sad but true . Is the Bible a reflection of mans views rather than Gods ? Some say the Bible has been hijacked , me I don't know , but my belief is that all wars have been started over consumerism , in that I mean there has always been thing that other want and will fight to get it , whether its oil a piece of land etc, consumerism is a man made contruct , remember and not, IMO , a design of the creater .
livinglarge: Yes true , however , that is the way human beings have treated each other for eons , sad but true . Is the Bible a reflection of mans views rather than Gods ? Some say the Bible has been hijacked , me I don't know , but my belief is that all wars have been started over consumerism , in that I mean there has always been thing that other want and will fight to get it , whether its oil a piece of land etc, consumerism is a man made contruct , remember and not, IMO , a design of the creater .
Is it not more than a little suspect that the very people who have treated each other so cruelly for eons, are the very ones who live in fear of questioning their own faith?
according to the Bible, all thigs are His creation - consumerism included.
Politics and religion have only relatively recently been seperated and even now that divide is still not wide enough - traditionally, the rulers were in turn ruled by whichever religion held sway over them and effectively, the church held the backdoor keys to all that went on.........
Many people feel that in the contemplation of nature and in communication with other living things, they become aware of some kind of force, or something, behind this apparent mask which we see in front of us...
The Force is an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds and penetrates living beings and binds the galaxy together...
I sense a great disturbance in the Force...
The Force is strong in me...
The Force has a "dark side", which feeds off emotions such as anger and fear...
Compassionate and selfless use of the Force has come to be known by inference as "the light side"...
May the Force be with you:
Star Wars WHAT!!! I got my light saber out, who wants some. Prepare to meet you unfortunate destiny
livinglargein a good place, Kildare Ireland5,879 posts
trish123: Is it not more than a little suspect that the very people who have treated each other so cruelly for eons, are the very ones who live in fear of questioning their own faith?
according to the Bible, all thigs are His creation - consumerism included.
Politics and religion have only relatively recently been seperated and even now that divide is still not wide enough - traditionally, the rulers were in turn ruled by whichever religion held sway over them and effectively, the church held the backdoor keys to all that went on.........
Yes it is true , but people use religion to get what they want , often its more about them wanting to hold on to power or have their own will imposed on others , ie Henry 8th . So for me the ones who use religion as a weapon , are corrupt . Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutly .
livinglarge: Yes it is true , but people use religion to get what they want , often its more about them wanting to hold on to power or have their own will imposed on others , ie Henry 8th . So for me the ones who use religion as a weapon , are corrupt . Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutly .
Religion has always been a weapon - its the ultimate tool of people control - I find it totally curious that there have been no recent miracles too - is this mabe because of the recent advancements in science I wonder
Religions are only ever effective when brought into play against primitive uneducated peoples as was the case when Constantine and the first council of Nicea ordered the first bibles to be written
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