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Peace lines..... (21)

Oct 9, 2008 6:47 PM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
The Peace Lines are a series of separation barriers ranging in length from a few hundred yards to over three miles (5 km), separating Catholic and Protestant neighbourhoods in Belfast, Derry and elsewhere in Northern Ireland. The stated purpose of the barriers is to minimize intercommunal sectarian violence between Protestants and Catholics.

The barriers themselves consist of iron, brick, and steel walls up to 25 feet (7.6 m) high, topped with metal netting. Some have gates in them occasionally manned by police, which allow passage by day, and which are closed at night


The first barriers were constructed in the early 1970s, following the outbreak of "The Troubles". Originally few in number, they have multiplied over the years, from 18 in the early 1990s to 40 today; in total they stretch over 13 miles (21 km). Most are located in Belfast.

Belfast’s partitions have outlived the Berlin Wall. While the Berlin Wall came down after 28 years, Belfast’s continue to stand, and there is little likelihood, at present, of them being demolished.


I've opened the same thread on the IF...sometimes I use a 'local' forum and I would like your views SVP...
Oct 9, 2008 6:49 PM CST Peace lines.....
Sommerauer71
Sommerauer71Sommerauer71Salzburg, Austria164 Threads 4 Polls 19,249 Posts
I will do this tomorrow, it is too late Phoenix...

Have some more wine...

You have started this in the Inter Rants?

That will be interesting, beats the election...
Oct 9, 2008 7:15 PM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
phoenix: Belfast’s partitions have outlived the Berlin Wall. While the Berlin Wall came down after 28 years, Belfast’s continue to stand, and there is little likelihood, at present, of them being demolished. I've opened the same thread on the IF...sometimes I use a 'local' forum and I would like your views SVP...


In Berlin, the locals were against the wall, on both sides.

What is the peoples view in Belfast about these walls ?
Oct 10, 2008 5:11 AM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
mike69spain: In Berlin, the locals were against the wall, on both sides.

What is the peoples view in Belfast about these walls ?


People are afraid in case the troubles start up again...I grew up in a catholic enclave in North belfast..surrounded by protestant neighbour-hoods..

I spoke to protestants for the first time when I was 16yrs old..they lived no more than 400yards from me.but because of the peace lines I didn't know how they lived...

When I went to college I quickly found out that they(protestants) ate, slept and shit like me...I became good friends with a protestant 'Dusty'..He supported the same football team(sorry lil) as me, listened to the same music and we spent many a Tuesday afternoon in a bar in belfast instead of going to a lecture (the proff was an idiot)...I couldn't go into his area neither he to mine(and still can't)

Since the siging of the GFA, 10yrs ago the divisions are more entrenched..And the peace lines get higher and higher...

I can stand in the center of belfast today at tell the religion of people simply by watch what buses they get on/off...All/most school kids wear uniforms which also denotes their religion..
Oct 10, 2008 6:55 AM CST Peace lines.....
no1brightongirl
no1brightongirlno1brightongirlbrighton, East Sussex, England UK15 Threads 286 Posts
do you think if they came down the probs would start again phoenix?
Oct 10, 2008 7:36 AM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
no1brightongirl: do you think if they came down the probs would start again phoenix?


The under lying problems are still there....The stupid thing is anyone from the North of Ireland who moved away from there get on very easily...but once they go back home and are faced with the barrel of a gun it's a different question...

I believe if they (the folks on the hill) guys in stormont pulled the walls down it would take 10/15yrs before there is trust....The longer they stay up the divisions will remain...

There are plans to have all peace walls dismantled by 2050...but I doubt it will happen...
Oct 10, 2008 7:44 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
phoenix: I can stand in the center of belfast today at tell the religion of people simply by watch what buses they get on/off...All/most school kids wear uniforms which also denotes their religion..


I had no clue whatsoever about all of this!

A silenced issue in Europe for sure, it is only called the Norther Ireland problem but never actually together with a clear picture of how the life is lived there.

There are very few dividing walls left in the world, Israel got their up recently but most of them has been taken down or are part of a countries defence line.

What you describe is prison like, like camps for people based on religion. I thought this was against the Geneva convention, particulary when you are not let to pass in between freely.

sigh
Oct 10, 2008 8:07 AM CST Peace lines.....
tinaferrara
tinaferraratinaferraraedinburgh, Lothian, Scotland UK17 Threads 278 Posts
i have a friend in glasgow,who tells me there are similar probs there,protestants and catholics,but no peace wall and that these probs will always exist as people cannot forget the past and look forward to the future
Oct 10, 2008 8:09 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
tinaferrara: i have a friend in glasgow,who tells me there are similar probs there,protestants and catholics,but no peace wall and that these probs will always exist as people cannot forget the past and look forward to the future


That would be the oldest reason, and in Belfast they have them close in history. What gets me is that in Dublin the Protestants and the Catholics are doing just fine.

Or am I deceived?
Oct 10, 2008 8:20 AM CST Peace lines.....
lisalee1960
lisalee1960lisalee1960st pauls, Majjistral Malta9 Threads 260 Posts
hi ,i have friends in dublin but believe there are so few protestants there that they are greatly outnumbered,so couldnt be an issue
Oct 10, 2008 8:23 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
lisalee1960: hi ,i have friends in dublin but believe there are so few protestants there that they are greatly outnumbered,so couldnt be an issue


Hmmmm....

Are the protestants in Belfast originally from England or there about?

I just realise how very little I know about the reasons for all that fighting in the area.
Oct 10, 2008 8:26 AM CST Peace lines.....
rusty_knight
rusty_knightrusty_knightGozo, Malta254 Threads 4 Polls 10,684 Posts
Ireland isn't the only country in Spain with deep-rooted problems....... the past is raising its ugly head in Spain - not only do the Spanish not wish to go to the expense of identifying and giving a proper burial to over 300,000 people in mass graves from the Spanish Civil war - they do not want to open old wounds where sometimes brother fought against brother etc.

Northern Ireland is mathematically an impossible situation - taking the island as a whole the majority are Catholics; taking Northern Ireland (with its gettmandered borders) the majority are Protestants.

One good thing about the EU is that NI can be treated as a REGION of the EU which takes some of the friction away between the governments of both the Republic of Ireland and the government of the UK of GB & NI.

We are all human beings. Go back far enough and we are all 'brothers and sisters'; it's a shame that human beings build walls to protect themselves and their families from one another.

My first wife was Irish - from the minority in the South (i.e. her family was Church of Ireland = Protestant). She hated religious friction so much that I believe that was what has made her a confirmed agnostic 99% of her life.
Oct 10, 2008 8:27 AM CST Peace lines.....
rusty_knight
rusty_knightrusty_knightGozo, Malta254 Threads 4 Polls 10,684 Posts
read 'gerrymandered' not 'gettmandered' please doh
Oct 10, 2008 10:16 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
rusty_knight: Ireland isn't the only country in Spain with deep-rooted problems.......


Sorry, but I found that funlaugh

rusty_knight: She hated religious friction so much that I believe that was what has made her a confirmed agnostic 99% of her life.


The issues has long gone past a religious question of course. There are other interests in control.

But as long as we identify us with one group we are effectively staying out of another. Tribes fought back then, and they seem to still fight.

Dream of a better world sooth the tiredness but reading the news brings it back.

To head back to Belfast, it is surely a modern city with all its ingredients, is it not? What would be a way out of this dead lock with walls and dammed up feelings?

dunno
Oct 10, 2008 10:18 AM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
mike69spain: Sorry, but I found that fun
The issues has long gone past a religious question of course. There are other interests in control.

?


mods can I aswer that question...?
Oct 10, 2008 10:22 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
phoenix: mods can I aswer that question...?


If not, mail me. thumbs up
Oct 10, 2008 10:25 AM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
does anyone mind if i use quotes from this thread on another forum...

I will not use your names....only your thoughts...
Oct 10, 2008 10:32 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
phoenix: does anyone mind if i use quotes from this thread on another forum...

I will not use your names ....only your thoughts...


I do not mind, and you are welcome to me quote by name. beer
Oct 10, 2008 10:32 AM CST Peace lines.....
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain41 Threads 6 Polls 5,508 Posts
mike69spain: I do not mind, and you are welcome to me quote by name.


But correct my English doh
Oct 10, 2008 10:39 AM CST Peace lines.....
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France103 Threads 4 Polls 5,247 Posts
mike69spain: I had no clue whatsoever about all of this!

A silenced issue in Europe for sure, it is only called the Norther Ireland problem but never actually together with a clear picture of how the life is lived there.

There are very few dividing walls left in the world, Israel got their up recently but most of them has been taken down or are part of a countries defence line.

What you describe is prison like, like camps for people based on religion. I thought this was against the Geneva convention, particulary when you are not let to pass in between freely.


I mailed you some of the answers...
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