Obama for President.........Decency became a Tsunami! (827)
ttom500: Fallingman....a present position of Obama and Biden is to have 'open'
ballot in our unions. We had open ballot in our unions for a time.
During the 30s.....the reason? Because the union leader could control the vote.
They did with brutuality. Anyone that did not vote the leader line....got his head bashed.
Obama and Biden are for retruning to open ballots. You ask most the union workers...they don't want open ballot and prefer secret ballot.
But union management does.
Tkae the concept to a Presidential election.....wish your name on a ballot so that people knew how you voted?
But is something that Putin would do in today Russia....that is slipping away from democracy.
I bring the issue up corruption in the then socialist gov't of Russia....because all the times I read the Englsih verish of Pravda.....
I never saw the Russian gov't doing anything about it. What had happened in those good old day of Socialist Russia....the Gov't and the Russian mob had gotten very close.
Today our Unions still have some very close relationships with our American mob. At the leadership level. The same leadership level that want 'open ballot'. Getting the drift now, Fallingman?
If want more on Obama socialism leanings read my threat here on it.
As for me demonizing, characterizing, generalizing liberalism or socialism.....I think it is that degree thingee. I might take a narrow view of what socialism is....where you wish to fade the line on it and blend it to liberalsm.
Obama is the most liberal Senator in the Senate. His brief voting record shows that. He has a long time friendship will Bill Ayers a admitted Communist....that he tries to hide from the American public.
Ayer admitted being a Communist and his work in education all support a radical reengineering of our education.
Such is not a mere change of society Fallingman. Such a a big jumb to Socialism. I fought Scoialism (communism) for 6 years during the cold war. Had men die becuse of it. Why do I want Obama to bring it to this country? So you can smile in Ireland?
ballot in our unions. We had open ballot in our unions for a time.
During the 30s.....the reason? Because the union leader could control the vote.
They did with brutuality. Anyone that did not vote the leader line....got his head bashed.
Obama and Biden are for retruning to open ballots. You ask most the union workers...they don't want open ballot and prefer secret ballot.
But union management does.
Tkae the concept to a Presidential election.....wish your name on a ballot so that people knew how you voted?
But is something that Putin would do in today Russia....that is slipping away from democracy.
I bring the issue up corruption in the then socialist gov't of Russia....because all the times I read the Englsih verish of Pravda.....
I never saw the Russian gov't doing anything about it. What had happened in those good old day of Socialist Russia....the Gov't and the Russian mob had gotten very close.
Today our Unions still have some very close relationships with our American mob. At the leadership level. The same leadership level that want 'open ballot'. Getting the drift now, Fallingman?
If want more on Obama socialism leanings read my threat here on it.
As for me demonizing, characterizing, generalizing liberalism or socialism.....I think it is that degree thingee. I might take a narrow view of what socialism is....where you wish to fade the line on it and blend it to liberalsm.
Obama is the most liberal Senator in the Senate. His brief voting record shows that. He has a long time friendship will Bill Ayers a admitted Communist....that he tries to hide from the American public.
Ayer admitted being a Communist and his work in education all support a radical reengineering of our education.
Such is not a mere change of society Fallingman. Such a a big jumb to Socialism. I fought Scoialism (communism) for 6 years during the cold war. Had men die becuse of it. Why do I want Obama to bring it to this country? So you can smile in Ireland?
So....let's see:
Distortion: "fade the line and blend it to liberalism" - that's what YOU do not me.
Make it a patriotism issue: "I fought Socialism.....why do I want Obama to bring it to this country" You fought China presumably, not Illinois!!
Irrelevent scare-mongering:
Unions used to intimidate voters, they are close to the mob, this is the kind of thing they do/did in Russia etc.
What kind of fools do you take us for? Condescension: "getting the drift now, Fallingman" - I am delighted to be able to study paranoid right-wing Republican scare-mongering at your feet but amazingly I can find other information in the world that is not seen through Red-Scare-tinted glass, thank you very much.
Insult: "So you can smile in Ireland" - what's the implication here? People like me don't want the US to become a better place - what we really want is you to become a Soviet Style Gulag where civil liberties are lost??????? Is that what you think? Well Tom, I have news for you - the Patriot Act was passed under a Republican administration and it takes away most of your liberties anyway. Don't lecture any other country about freedom while that is on the statute books!
Give me a break! You have no facts, no policies and no new ideas. Keep the others out is all you care about and never mind that your great country goes to hell as a result.....at least it won't be Democratically controlled so you will be happy
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Hugz....you need it if you are going to repeat yourself! 
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Fallingman: Hugz....you need it if you are going to repeat yourself!
I was just trying to spread the news twice as quick....
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Well it would make some far left democratic-communist-pinko-socialists in America smile too don't you think?
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Skybow: Well it would make some far left democratic-communist-pinko-socialists in America smile too don't you think?
I think so...I have to get those facts out to the media as quick as possible cause the election is just around the corner....
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Skybow: Well it would make some far left democratic-communist-pinko-socialists in America smile too don't you think?
Goodness, I hope there aren't too many of them about!!!!
55 million or so should do it!
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petraeus_1
Gen. Petraeus faces even tougher job after Iraq
Hailed as an American hero for his role in pulling Iraq back from the brink of all-out civil war, U.S. Army Gen. David Petraeus takes on an even more challenging job on Friday as the head of U.S. Central Command.
The warrior-scholar with a doctorate in international relations from Princeton University takes responsibility for U.S. military operations in a volatile swathe of the world that includes Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran and the Gulf.
As the top commander in Iraq, Petraeus presided over a surge of 30,000 extra U.S. troops into the country and implemented a strategy focused on protecting the Iraqi population, which contributed to a steep decline in violence.
The turnaround in Iraq was also due to other factors -- including Sunni former insurgents turning against al Qaeda and a ceasefire by radical Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr -- but Petraeus has received widespread credit for his leadership....
However, analysts say the authority of his office -- the head of Central Command is one of the top posts in the U.S. military -- and his own personal reputation will give Petraeus substantial influence across the region and in Washington.
In Pakistan, no one is seriously suggesting a large influx of U.S. troops to fight militants there so Petraeus will have to focus largely on persuading and assisting the Pakistani military to carry out effective operations.
Military leaders in Pakistan, where al Qaeda has regrouped in areas bordering Afghanistan, will be keen to learn from Petraeus, said Shuja Nawaz, the author of a book on the Pakistani army called "Crossed Swords."
"The knowledge that he's acquired in fighting ... militancy in Iraq is going to be listened to," Nawaz said.
"Also, Gen. Petraeus' knowledge of political systems and working with politicians is something that would be valuable."
Petraeus always argues that defeating insurgencies requires much more than military force and stresses the importance of political deals and economic development.
With his intellectual air and high media profile, Petraeus is not universally loved in the U.S. military. Some believe he regards himself too highly and nickname him "King David." ....
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Bill Clinton endorsed OBAMA!
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Fallingman: Maybe you should have talked to MORE liberals yourself in college TTom, you might have learned some things!
Awtch!!!!!!! this one was so true!!!!!!!!
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StressFree: Bill Clinton and Obama together last night in Florida in front of 35,000 was pretty cool. Bill made his case for Obama in a very convincing way. Philosophy, policies, decision making, and understanding were Clintons 4 points.
Clinton said, “I am honored to be here to voice my support for Senator Obama for president,” Mr. Clinton said Wednesday night, adding that every president does his best to enact his campaign promises, and “Barack Obama’s do-list is the better do-list. The economic plan is better. The education plan is better … and his health care plan is light-years better.”
“If we have learned anything we have learned that we need a president that wants to understand and who can understand,” Mr. Clinton said. “He said tell me what the right thing to do is…That’s what a president does in a crisis.”
Obamoa said of Clinton, “When Bill Clinton was president your average wages and incomes went up $7,500. Under George Bush it went down $2,000,” Mr Obama said, drawing a contrast with GOP rival Mr. McCain. “If I’ve get economic theories that are similar to Bill Clinton’s, and he has got economic theories that are similar to George Bush’s. You can look and see which one worked and which didn’t.”
"Mr. Clinton inherited a $346 billion deficit and left office with Washington in a surplus. Wednesday’s joint appearance was a way to underscore the argument that Democrats — contrary to Republican badmouthing — offer competent leadership."
To be honest, I kinda do miss the Clinton days. Those were good times in between the end of the cold war 9-11. Bill Clinton's administration did preside over the most unprecedented successful economy ever in American history.
Clinton joining Obama in a stump speech was a powerful scene. When you think of Clinton, you think of a good economy and the good ole Clinton days.
Building America from the ground up, not from top to bottom. The trickle down theory has run it's course. We can't put our trust in private special interest groups anymore. There are too many things neglected (infrastructure/health care) and nobody from the private sector stepping up to fix that, and the taxes going to that are clearly not enough. Somebody has to pay for it right? I saw a report that people in St.Paul are drinking water that run through lead pipes, and there is no money to upgrade the system.
Problems everywhere that need to be addressed, not ignored.
Obama 08
Clinton said, “I am honored to be here to voice my support for Senator Obama for president,” Mr. Clinton said Wednesday night, adding that every president does his best to enact his campaign promises, and “Barack Obama’s do-list is the better do-list. The economic plan is better. The education plan is better … and his health care plan is light-years better.”
“If we have learned anything we have learned that we need a president that wants to understand and who can understand,” Mr. Clinton said. “He said tell me what the right thing to do is…That’s what a president does in a crisis.”
Obamoa said of Clinton, “When Bill Clinton was president your average wages and incomes went up $7,500. Under George Bush it went down $2,000,” Mr Obama said, drawing a contrast with GOP rival Mr. McCain. “If I’ve get economic theories that are similar to Bill Clinton’s, and he has got economic theories that are similar to George Bush’s. You can look and see which one worked and which didn’t.”
"Mr. Clinton inherited a $346 billion deficit and left office with Washington in a surplus. Wednesday’s joint appearance was a way to underscore the argument that Democrats — contrary to Republican badmouthing — offer competent leadership."
To be honest, I kinda do miss the Clinton days. Those were good times in between the end of the cold war 9-11. Bill Clinton's administration did preside over the most unprecedented successful economy ever in American history.
Clinton joining Obama in a stump speech was a powerful scene. When you think of Clinton, you think of a good economy and the good ole Clinton days.
Building America from the ground up, not from top to bottom. The trickle down theory has run it's course. We can't put our trust in private special interest groups anymore. There are too many things neglected (infrastructure/health care) and nobody from the private sector stepping up to fix that, and the taxes going to that are clearly not enough. Somebody has to pay for it right? I saw a report that people in St.Paul are drinking water that run through lead pipes, and there is no money to upgrade the system.
Problems everywhere that need to be addressed, not ignored.
Obama 08
A Fabulous event to watch and listen to in deed!
Cool guys with Functional Brains holding tog ether and Stupied war mongers and Narsisists with a piece of Fat they are calling a Brain holding to gether as well!
Obama is Cool and so is Bill!!!!!!!
Has there ever been any other messages as cool as... YES WE CAN!!!!!!
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Fallingman: You see the problem with you reactionaries is mostly in your text above. You generalise, demonise and make false comparisons. What has Russia to do with modern socialism, what has socialism to do with Obama? I'm sure the USSR was a spectacular failure - so was the Bush administration but I don't think they have THAT much in common.
I'm sure there was corruption in Russia....but what has that to do with America voting out a nasty incompetent Government by democratic means....answer...nothing at all. All huff, puff and smoke.
If you asked me to name a socialist country it would be hard to come up with one....Sweden sometimes....and you are not going to tell me that that country is "hell on earth". People are entitled to try out different ways to improve their society.
And this laughable confusion of liberalism and socialism. In most countries the Liberals are relatively right-wing. Only in America have the right succeeded in demonising all attempts to create a more caring society as "liberalism=socialism=communism".
Lies and slander Tom are Lies and Slander no matter what way you dress them up.
I don't know anyone, not even Dude in his heart, who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of the world but I know lots that think he is fundamentally decent and will try. I believe even John McCain believes that and that he is embarrassed by some of his supporters. I respect him for that and if he were running for some party other than the appalling Republicans I might show him some support.
I would prefer Obama to be anti-gun, anti-death penalty, more even-handed in Middle East policy (less slavishly pro-Israel) and willing to move to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. However, you can't have everything and of the available options he seems by far the best.
I'm sure there was corruption in Russia....but what has that to do with America voting out a nasty incompetent Government by democratic means....answer...nothing at all. All huff, puff and smoke.
If you asked me to name a socialist country it would be hard to come up with one....Sweden sometimes....and you are not going to tell me that that country is "hell on earth". People are entitled to try out different ways to improve their society.
And this laughable confusion of liberalism and socialism. In most countries the Liberals are relatively right-wing. Only in America have the right succeeded in demonising all attempts to create a more caring society as "liberalism=socialism=communism".
Lies and slander Tom are Lies and Slander no matter what way you dress them up.
I don't know anyone, not even Dude in his heart, who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of the world but I know lots that think he is fundamentally decent and will try. I believe even John McCain believes that and that he is embarrassed by some of his supporters. I respect him for that and if he were running for some party other than the appalling Republicans I might show him some support.
I would prefer Obama to be anti-gun, anti-death penalty, more even-handed in Middle East policy (less slavishly pro-Israel) and willing to move to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. However, you can't have everything and of the available options he seems by far the best.
USSR and the Bushney,s adminstration have one single very important thing in common.......
Both systems Killed and Turtured and Censured millions to Hide the failurs of their ways of rulling the "world"
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I will give you some facts, Fallingman.
The 6 years, I was in ......we trained solely to take on Russia......that socialist country of mention here. We had two killed in a night time training accident, when a tank like vehicle drove over the top on them a road check point doing 35 mph. Dead is dead.
I will tell what you my line and defintion between liberalism and socialism is. Yours is?
Here is mine. Socialism is the rule of many by the few. Democracy, the rule of law, the voting process, freedom of speech, press and other aspects of a gov't by a Constitution have been done away....in part or totally (hence one can define it narrowly or broadly).
Liberalism is political position and value system of a individual or group that espouses often times socialist views and opinions.
That is why......when earlier the DEMs could do the 50% electroral cut on FL/MI....why Obama and Biden can embrace open ballot vs secret ballot in unions...why when ACORN does its voter fraud and Obama does not condem it...when Obama has a long term relationship with a Ayers...to helping him extend a educational reengineering program to Chicago school that is at its base is socialism...then does his spread the wealth answer to Joe the Plummer...and has the most liberal voting record in the Senate...
That is a liberal showing socialism.
So I call him a socialist... big deal. He is big player, he can take the little heat I throw at him. It seems people like yourself and HUGs cannot.
The rest.....getting the drift....smile in Ireland....was done in a sense of humor.....which I know most Irish are fond of....if you want to take them as insults...you are far to thin skinned....but take them as you will.
The Patriot Act.....LOL....has taken away our right and freedoms? If that was the case.....LOL.....do you think that Americans could be here at CS? Or have a news reporter ask Joe Biden a Carl Marx question?
Or have Joe the plummer pop one to Obama?Or like the Chinese.....we would be limited to where on the net we can visit. With a Obama win, watch and see if that doesnot change in the next 4 years.
If only serious clause of danger to freedom of the country is the Posse'
Comtris suspension clause. Which in all GWB time in office.....has never been mentioned or even thought of to be used or enacted. The rest....specially the foreign party wire taps....I got no problem with.
But I will tell you. If Obama gets elected....I would not expect the Patriot Act, the foreign wire tap program, or many other program of Homeland Security to change much. Because he ain't talking freedom and constitution. He is talking big gov't and wealth redistribution.
New ideas? I work with my clients on a confidentiality basis. New ideas that effect thier business or thier positions in Gov't....I am not going to place here in CS. But I assure you Fallingman, the new ideas....are not in the Obama camp. He has borrowed or came to most of the McCain moderate positions in this campaign. He only has a few that remain orginal and his. Guess he was not so sold on being a liberal socialist.
While I did not see the infocommercial.....some have said that Obama drape himself in the flag.....guess he is trying to be patriotic.
The 6 years, I was in ......we trained solely to take on Russia......that socialist country of mention here. We had two killed in a night time training accident, when a tank like vehicle drove over the top on them a road check point doing 35 mph. Dead is dead.
I will tell what you my line and defintion between liberalism and socialism is. Yours is?
Here is mine. Socialism is the rule of many by the few. Democracy, the rule of law, the voting process, freedom of speech, press and other aspects of a gov't by a Constitution have been done away....in part or totally (hence one can define it narrowly or broadly).
Liberalism is political position and value system of a individual or group that espouses often times socialist views and opinions.
That is why......when earlier the DEMs could do the 50% electroral cut on FL/MI....why Obama and Biden can embrace open ballot vs secret ballot in unions...why when ACORN does its voter fraud and Obama does not condem it...when Obama has a long term relationship with a Ayers...to helping him extend a educational reengineering program to Chicago school that is at its base is socialism...then does his spread the wealth answer to Joe the Plummer...and has the most liberal voting record in the Senate...
That is a liberal showing socialism.
So I call him a socialist... big deal. He is big player, he can take the little heat I throw at him. It seems people like yourself and HUGs cannot.
The rest.....getting the drift....smile in Ireland....was done in a sense of humor.....which I know most Irish are fond of....if you want to take them as insults...you are far to thin skinned....but take them as you will.
The Patriot Act.....LOL....has taken away our right and freedoms? If that was the case.....LOL.....do you think that Americans could be here at CS? Or have a news reporter ask Joe Biden a Carl Marx question?
Or have Joe the plummer pop one to Obama?Or like the Chinese.....we would be limited to where on the net we can visit. With a Obama win, watch and see if that doesnot change in the next 4 years.
If only serious clause of danger to freedom of the country is the Posse'
Comtris suspension clause. Which in all GWB time in office.....has never been mentioned or even thought of to be used or enacted. The rest....specially the foreign party wire taps....I got no problem with.
But I will tell you. If Obama gets elected....I would not expect the Patriot Act, the foreign wire tap program, or many other program of Homeland Security to change much. Because he ain't talking freedom and constitution. He is talking big gov't and wealth redistribution.
New ideas? I work with my clients on a confidentiality basis. New ideas that effect thier business or thier positions in Gov't....I am not going to place here in CS. But I assure you Fallingman, the new ideas....are not in the Obama camp. He has borrowed or came to most of the McCain moderate positions in this campaign. He only has a few that remain orginal and his. Guess he was not so sold on being a liberal socialist.
While I did not see the infocommercial.....some have said that Obama drape himself in the flag.....guess he is trying to be patriotic.
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StressFree: Bill Clinton and Obama together last night in Florida in front of 35,000 was pretty cool. Bill made his case for Obama in a very convincing way. Philosophy, policies, decision making, and understanding were Clintons 4 points.
Clinton said, “I am honored to be here to voice my support for Senator Obama for president,” Mr. Clinton said Wednesday night, adding that every president does his best to enact his campaign promises, and “Barack Obama’s do-list is the better do-list. The economic plan is better. The education plan is better … and his health care plan is light-years better.”
“If we have learned anything we have learned that we need a president that wants to understand and who can understand,” Mr. Clinton said. “He said tell me what the right thing to do is…That’s what a president does in a crisis.”
Obamoa said of Clinton, “When Bill Clinton was president your average wages and incomes went up $7,500. Under George Bush it went down $2,000,” Mr Obama said, drawing a contrast with GOP rival Mr. McCain. “If I’ve get economic theories that are similar to Bill Clinton’s, and he has got economic theories that are similar to George Bush’s. You can look and see which one worked and which didn’t.”
"Mr. Clinton inherited a $346 billion deficit and left office with Washington in a surplus. Wednesday’s joint appearance was a way to underscore the argument that Democrats — contrary to Republican badmouthing — offer competent leadership."
To be honest, I kinda do miss the Clinton days. Those were good times in between the end of the cold war 9-11. Bill Clinton's administration did preside over the most unprecedented successful economy ever in American history.
Clinton joining Obama in a stump speech was a powerful scene. When you think of Clinton, you think of a good economy and the good ole Clinton days.
Building America from the ground up, not from top to bottom. The trickle down theory has run it's course. We can't put our trust in private special interest groups anymore. There are too many things neglected (infrastructure/health care) and nobody from the private sector stepping up to fix that, and the taxes going to that are clearly not enough. Somebody has to pay for it right? I saw a report that people in St.Paul are drinking water that run through lead pipes, and there is no money to upgrade the system.
Problems everywhere that need to be addressed, not ignored.
Obama 08
'Clinton said, “I am honored to be here to voice my support for Senator Obama for president,” Mr. Clinton said Wednesday night, adding that every president does his best to enact his campaign promises, and “Barack Obama’s do-list is the better do-list. The economic plan is better. The education plan is better … and his health care plan is light-years better.”
“If we have learned anything we have learned that we need a president that wants to understand and who can understand,” Mr. Clinton said. “He said tell me what the right thing to do is…That’s what a president does in a crisis.”
Obamoa said of Clinton, “When Bill Clinton was president your average wages and incomes went up $7,500. Under George Bush it went down $2,000,” Mr Obama said, drawing a contrast with GOP rival Mr. McCain. “If I’ve get economic theories that are similar to Bill Clinton’s, and he has got economic theories that are similar to George Bush’s. You can look and see which one worked and which didn’t.”
"Mr. Clinton inherited a $346 billion deficit and left office with Washington in a surplus. Wednesday’s joint appearance was a way to underscore the argument that Democrats — contrary to Republican badmouthing — offer competent leadership."
To be honest, I kinda do miss the Clinton days. Those were good times in between the end of the cold war 9-11. Bill Clinton's administration did preside over the most unprecedented successful economy ever in American history.
Clinton joining Obama in a stump speech was a powerful scene. When you think of Clinton, you think of a good economy and the good ole Clinton days.
Building America from the ground up, not from top to bottom. The trickle down theory has run it's course. We can't put our trust in private special interest groups anymore. There are too many things neglected (infrastructure/health care) and nobody from the private sector stepping up to fix that, and the taxes going to that are clearly not enough. Somebody has to pay for it right? I saw a report that people in St.Paul are drinking water that run through lead pipes, and there is no money to upgrade the system.
Problems everywhere that need to be addressed, not ignored.
Obama 08
For the $20 million Obama's going to pay toward Hillary's campaign debt, I'd suck up to Obama too.
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Indyfella: '
For the $20 million Obama's going to pay toward Hillary's campaign debt, I'd suck up to Obama too.
Not sure if I wanted to be endorsed by Uncle Bill,might prove to be a Liability!For the $20 million Obama's going to pay toward Hillary's campaign debt, I'd suck up to Obama too.
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Fallingman: You see the problem with you reactionaries is mostly in your text above. You generalise, demonise and make false comparisons. What has Russia to do with modern socialism, what has socialism to do with Obama? I'm sure the USSR was a spectacular failure - so was the Bush administration but I don't think they have THAT much in common.
I'm sure there was corruption in Russia....but what has that to do with America voting out a nasty incompetent Government by democratic means....answer...nothing at all. All huff, puff and smoke.
If you asked me to name a socialist country it would be hard to come up with one....Sweden sometimes....and you are not going to tell me that that country is "hell on earth". People are entitled to try out different ways to improve their society.
And this laughable confusion of liberalism and socialism. In most countries the Liberals are relatively right-wing. Only in America have the right succeeded in demonising all attempts to create a more caring society as "liberalism=socialism=communism".
Lies and slander Tom are Lies and Slander no matter what way you dress them up.
I don't know anyone, not even Dude in his heart, who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of the world but I know lots that think he is fundamentally decent and will try. I believe even John McCain believes that and that he is embarrassed by some of his supporters. I respect him for that and if he were running for some party other than the appalling Republicans I might show him some support.
I would prefer Obama to be anti-gun, anti-death penalty, more even-handed in Middle East policy (less slavishly pro-Israel) and willing to move to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. However, you can't have everything and of the available options he seems by far the best.
I'm sure there was corruption in Russia....but what has that to do with America voting out a nasty incompetent Government by democratic means....answer...nothing at all. All huff, puff and smoke.
If you asked me to name a socialist country it would be hard to come up with one....Sweden sometimes....and you are not going to tell me that that country is "hell on earth". People are entitled to try out different ways to improve their society.
And this laughable confusion of liberalism and socialism. In most countries the Liberals are relatively right-wing. Only in America have the right succeeded in demonising all attempts to create a more caring society as "liberalism=socialism=communism".
Lies and slander Tom are Lies and Slander no matter what way you dress them up.
I don't know anyone, not even Dude in his heart, who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of the world but I know lots that think he is fundamentally decent and will try. I believe even John McCain believes that and that he is embarrassed by some of his supporters. I respect him for that and if he were running for some party other than the appalling Republicans I might show him some support.
I would prefer Obama to be anti-gun, anti-death penalty, more even-handed in Middle East policy (less slavishly pro-Israel) and willing to move to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. However, you can't have everything and of the available options he seems by far the best.
I would say that takes you to the far end of the left spectrum, with Dude. I'm not sure what that says...but I have a few ideas.
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It is funny how the left and DEMs forget about GWB's AID program in Afrcia.That he increased far more than other DEM presidents had. Or they forget about GWBs faith initiative program......keeping faith based
organizations doing food relief. Or GWBs no children left behind program......that the DEM Congress could not fund.
Yet you mention Obama being liberal and a socialist and you are demonizing. Obama leaves his brother George in squalid proverty in Kenya. Obama cannot advocate laws for living abortions in IL. Obama cannot sever from a church with the leadership and theology of Rev. Wright's liberation theology. Maybe he needs to be demonized a little.
Yep....I got the left's demonizing picture now.
organizations doing food relief. Or GWBs no children left behind program......that the DEM Congress could not fund.
Yet you mention Obama being liberal and a socialist and you are demonizing. Obama leaves his brother George in squalid proverty in Kenya. Obama cannot advocate laws for living abortions in IL. Obama cannot sever from a church with the leadership and theology of Rev. Wright's liberation theology. Maybe he needs to be demonized a little.
Yep....I got the left's demonizing picture now.
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ttom500: It is funny how the left and DEMs forget about GWB's AID program in Afrcia.That he increased far more than other DEM presidents had. Or they forget about GWBs faith initiative program......keeping faith based
organizations doing food relief. Or GWBs no children left behind program......that the DEM Congress could not fund.
Yet you mention Obama being liberal and a socialist and you are demonizing. Obama leaves his brother George in squalid proverty in Kenya. Obama cannot advocate laws for living abortions in IL. Obama cannot sever from a church with the leadership and theology of Rev. Wright's liberation theology. Maybe he needs to be demonized a little.
Yep....I got the left's demonizing picture now.
organizations doing food relief. Or GWBs no children left behind program......that the DEM Congress could not fund.
Yet you mention Obama being liberal and a socialist and you are demonizing. Obama leaves his brother George in squalid proverty in Kenya. Obama cannot advocate laws for living abortions in IL. Obama cannot sever from a church with the leadership and theology of Rev. Wright's liberation theology. Maybe he needs to be demonized a little.
Yep....I got the left's demonizing picture now.
You've heard the term Ugly American, well there are ugly Christians it seems. Slander and judgment based on half truths and lies sure doesn't seem right to me. Or maybe far right I guess.
I'm not even going to sling any mud on your guys, they're on the ropes now and fighting dirty all the way. It's too sad and so not what most Americans want to hear.
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Indyfella: I would say that takes you to the far end of the left spectrum, with Dude. I'm not sure what that says...but I have a few ideas.
Well....thanks for reading it anyway!
In european terms I am quite centrist. I am not as idealistic as Dude. What it "says" Indy is up to you. I say what I mean.
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I'm sure there was corruption in Russia....but what has that to do with America voting out a nasty incompetent Government by democratic means....answer...nothing at all. All huff, puff and smoke.
If you asked me to name a socialist country it would be hard to come up with one....Sweden sometimes....and you are not going to tell me that that country is "hell on earth". People are entitled to try out different ways to improve their society.
And this laughable confusion of liberalism and socialism. In most countries the Liberals are relatively right-wing. Only in America have the right succeeded in demonising all attempts to create a more caring society as "liberalism=socialism=communism".
Lies and slander Tom are Lies and Slander no matter what way you dress them up.
I don't know anyone, not even Dude in his heart, who thinks that Obama will solve all the problems of the world but I know lots that think he is fundamentally decent and will try. I believe even John McCain believes that and that he is embarrassed by some of his supporters. I respect him for that and if he were running for some party other than the appalling Republicans I might show him some support.
I would prefer Obama to be anti-gun, anti-death penalty, more even-handed in Middle East policy (less slavishly pro-Israel) and willing to move to get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. However, you can't have everything and of the available options he seems by far the best.
Fallingman....a present position of Obama and Biden is to have 'open'
ballot in our unions. We had open ballot in our unions for a time.
During the 30s.....the reason? Because the union leader could control the vote.
They did with brutuality. Anyone that did not vote the leader line....got his head bashed.
Obama and Biden are for retruning to open ballots. You ask most the union workers...they don't want open ballot and prefer secret ballot.
But union management does.
Tkae the concept to a Presidential election.....wish your name on a ballot so that people knew how you voted?
But is something that Putin would do in today Russia....that is slipping away from democracy.
I bring the issue up corruption in the then socialist gov't of Russia....because all the times I read the Englsih verish of Pravda.....
I never saw the Russian gov't doing anything about it. What had happened in those good old day of Socialist Russia....the Gov't and the Russian mob had gotten very close.
Today our Unions still have some very close relationships with our American mob. At the leadership level. The same leadership level that want 'open ballot'. Getting the drift now, Fallingman?
If want more on Obama socialism leanings read my threat here on it.
As for me demonizing, characterizing, generalizing liberalism or socialism.....I think it is that degree thingee. I might take a narrow view of what socialism is....where you wish to fade the line on it and blend it to liberalsm.
Obama is the most liberal Senator in the Senate. His brief voting record shows that. He has a long time friendship will Bill Ayers a admitted Communist....that he tries to hide from the American public.
Ayer admitted being a Communist and his work in education all support a radical reengineering of our education.
Such is not a mere change of society Fallingman. Such a a big jumb to Socialism. I fought Scoialism (communism) for 6 years during the cold war. Had men die becuse of it. Why do I want Obama to bring it to this country? So you can smile in Ireland?