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The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love? ( Archived) (144)

Oct 30, 2008 11:09 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...

wave wine
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Oct 30, 2008 11:10 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
shipoker58
shipoker58shipoker58Las Vegas, Nevada USA35 Threads 4,332 Posts
Ambrose2007: I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...




In a word.....yes
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Oct 30, 2008 11:11 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
shipoker58: In a word.....yes


Any chance of your describing how you went about that personally, S?confused dunno hug wave
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Oct 30, 2008 11:12 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
mbcasey
mbcaseymbcaseyNorth Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA78 Threads 7 Polls 21,350 Posts
Being the expert on brain chemistry that I am.....laugh

The only way it would work is if it took the same amount of time that you naturally would fall out of love.

I would give it a 1% chance of working.
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Oct 30, 2008 11:17 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada82 Threads 3 Polls 34,865 Posts
Ambrose2007: I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...



I hear people say all the time that love is a choice...I believe it's a choice to reject it or accept it but I don't believe we can choose in who we are attracted to or fall in love with...It's either there or it isn't...that's why some people remain only friends and others go on to relationships...If we had a choice...then there would never be such a thing as settling...we could just choose to love who we are with...There also would never be such a thing as the right person because we could choose to love any person.....we can make people think they are chicken though hypnosis to but that doesn't make it real...so perhaps through the power of hypnosis and suggestion...the types we can see ourselves loving or be attracted to may change...but not truly loving someone....that would be the hypnosis doing the work...not real love!!!!!!!!


wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet
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Oct 30, 2008 11:18 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
mbcasey: Being the expert on brain chemistry that I am.....

The only way it would work is if it took the same amount of time that you naturally would fall out of love.

I would give it a 1% chance of working.


Hey, Ken!hug

Well, that raises an interesting issue - the role of time in falling in and out of love. Falling out of love is often likened to the grieving process and its various steps (I forget how many)...at least I often liken it to that. There seems to be a natural process involving time and distance (not being in constant or intimate contact with the person). I know in my experience that my affection/love for certain family members has diminished to some degree over the years for various reasons, but I don't see an act of will being involved.

I think we can will ourselves to love indirectly by making a number of choices which facilitate love - perhaps not the least of which is the simple decision that one wants to be in love. Also, we can decide to make ourselves more accommodating to the possibility of love by, for instance, addressing personal issues or even eliminating some of the dozens of cats currently residing in one's home...laugh conversing wink
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Oct 30, 2008 11:21 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
lktolbert
lktolbertlktolbertAtlanta, Georgia USA1 Threads 190 Posts
Your friend is correct.....now stop thinking so much and will yourself to have a nice warm shot of tequilla. wine beer drink pouring
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Oct 30, 2008 11:22 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: I hear people say all the time that love is a choice...I believe it's a choice to reject it or accept it but I don't believe we can choose in who we are attracted to or fall in love with...It's either there or it isn't...that's why some people remain only friends and others go on to relationships...If we had a choice...then there would never be such a thing as settling...we could just choose to love who we are with...There also would never be such a thing as the right person because we could choose to love any person.....we can make people think they are chicken though hypnosis to but that doesn't make it real...so perhaps through the power of hypnosis and suggestion...the types we can see ourselves loving or be attracted to may change...but not truly loving someone....that would be the hypnosis doing the work...not real love!!!!!!!!


wave thumbs up hug

I thought that was an excellent point, Shel, about how people would simply choose to love the one they were with - that there wouldn't be any "settling" if people had that kind of power.

Of course, I suspect my friend would counter-argue that these people simply don't know how to make that choice. He said the same thing when I pointed out my ex-wife had spent years willing herself not to love me, but all she succeeded in was suppressing her feelings of love.
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Oct 30, 2008 11:23 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
lktolbert: Your friend is correct.....now stop thinking so much and will yourself to have a nice warm shot of tequilla.


Ah...my favorite critic has made an appearance!laugh hug wine wave
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Oct 30, 2008 11:24 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
lktolbert: Your friend is correct.....now stop thinking so much and will yourself to have a nice warm shot of tequilla.


Why not a cold Bud??

But seriously, Linda...can you offer reasons why you think my friend's right? I think that would help balance what's bound to be a rather lopsided discussion (I suspect virtually everyone will reject his thesis). Someone with your brains should make a rather formidable ally to my ole buddy...heart wings
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Oct 30, 2008 11:26 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada82 Threads 3 Polls 34,865 Posts
Ambrose2007: I thought that was an excellent point, Shel, about how people would simply choose to love the one they were with - that there wouldn't be any "settling" if people had that kind of power.

Of course, I suspect my friend would counter-argue that these people simply don't know how to make that choice. He said the same thing when I pointed out my ex-wife had spent years willing herself not to love me, but all she succeeded in was suppressing her feelings of love.



Exactly and I would counter argue with your friend the reverse...that when it's over and we really don't want to love someone anymore...if that were the case we could just choose not to...yet the feelings still remain...and that's true for anyone who has ever found themselves involved in a break-up with the exception of the people who ended it because their love died for whatever reasons...and I believe that has more to do with the choices people make and the circumstances they find themselves in for a lengthy period of time....wave wink thumbs up
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Oct 30, 2008 11:27 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
mbcasey
mbcaseymbcaseyNorth Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA78 Threads 7 Polls 21,350 Posts
Ambrose2007: Hey, Ken!

Well, that raises an interesting issue - the role of time in falling in and out of love. Falling out of love is often likened to the grieving process and its various steps (I forget how many)...at least I often liken it to that. There seems to be a natural process involving time and distance (not being in constant or intimate contact with the person). I know in my experience that my affection/love for certain family members has diminished to some degree over the years for various reasons, but I don't see an act of will being involved.

I think we can will ourselves to love indirectly by making a number of choices which facilitate love - perhaps not the least of which is the simple decision that one wants to be in love. Also, we can decide to make ourselves more accommodating to the possibility of love by, for instance, addressing personal issues or even eliminating some of the dozens of cats currently residing in one's home...


"Also, we can decide to make ourselves more accommodating to the possibility of love by, for instance, addressing personal issues "

That statement above is certainly true. Also, I agree with you that falling out of love is lke the grieving process.

I would think by now, with a billion self-help books, and infomercial gurus someone would have started the business of "How to Fall Out Of Love In 2 Weeks Time".

My brain has spent 30 years being probed and prodded by psychiatrists, psycologists, psychopharmacologists, family therapists using all kinds of techniques, drugs and natural remedies. Unfortunately, they still do not understand how it all works...
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Oct 30, 2008 11:29 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007: I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...


I have many deep and reflective thoughts about this. I've experienced some things that you presented Ambrose. I am about to go for a workout and clear some static. I'll try and contribute later to this great thread....
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Oct 30, 2008 11:29 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
lucky200761
lucky200761lucky200761Blue Springs, Missouri USA42 Threads 5 Polls 713 Posts
Ambrose2007: I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...

Its seems like there is more to this????.....anyways I agree with everybody else
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Oct 30, 2008 11:32 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia147 Threads 2 Polls 14,452 Posts
Does your friend simply hold these beliefs but that they have not been actualised?

Or he has succeeded in achieving all the above? I am curious, because from my knowledge about people's behaviour, a person will not do some unless they actually want to, at a subconscious level.

And if they want to perform a particular action anyway, there is nothing too mysterious about that then, is there?dunno
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Oct 30, 2008 11:33 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia147 Threads 2 Polls 14,452 Posts
quote]

sorry, "...not do something..."
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Oct 30, 2008 11:43 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
jbibiza
jbibizajbibizaIbiza, Balearic Islands Spain133 Threads 6 Polls 7,679 Posts
I don´t believe we have to stop loving someone in order to move on in our lives.... I have a hard time understanding peoples ideas of love when things don´t go the way they want. How does love turn into anger, hatred, pain and jealousy?

We do not have a limited amount of love to go around... there are 4 men in my life that I have loved and still love. I don´t want to "get over it" the memories I have are lovely and I wouldn´t want to corrode them with bad feelings.

To me, if you truly love another then their happiness is what you value more then keeping them... if you can´t be happy together why turn it to hate?

So for me it´s basically a moot point... the falling in love is a whole different matter, I don´t think you can condition yourself to fall in love with someone no matter how perfect for you they may seem. I do feel it is possible to grow to love someone through supporting each other, accomplishing things together, being there for each other.
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Oct 30, 2008 11:45 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
BnaturAl
BnaturAlBnaturAlSarnia, Ontario Canada141 Threads 8 Polls 10,411 Posts
Ambrose2007: I'm currently debating this subject with a friend. He believes that through a combination of therapy, hypnosis, self-suggestion, and sheer willpower one make oneself fall out of love (he's claims to have done this with a long-time girlfriend). He also contends that one can will oneself to fall in love with someone. We might not *want* to fall in love with someone because of personal incompatibilities, but if one wanted to do so it would be possible - even if the person were poorly compatible.

He also applies this across the board to our desires: we could, for example, will ourselves to have different tastes in women (for example, change from liking skinny women to overweight women) if we so chose.

I believe there are quite a number of problematic elements in his position, but I'm wondering what thoughts my fellow CSers might have on this subject...


I tend to agree with your friend, self talk is life forming and reaffirming. How we get to be who we our is a confluence of our environmental influences. We even gravitate to people who share our particular stance in life. We simply allowed those influences to take precidence in our makeup.

Surely if subconscious compliance happens, then conscious assessment and deliberate restructuring of ideals and notions is also available. "Who I am" is just a character we we tend to reaffirm, rather than change.

I do however think that innate characteristics are more difficult to change.

As for loving someone we wouldn't ordinarily choose, I think that is also possible, though I wouldn't venture to say probable, so I would add that to the catagorie of innate traights that are more difficult to change.

cool wave
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Oct 30, 2008 11:45 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
Ambrose2007
Ambrose2007Ambrose2007BFE, South Dakota USA110 Threads 17 Polls 14,069 Posts
StressFree: I have many deep and reflective thoughts about this. I've experienced some things that you presented Ambrose. I am about to go for a workout and clear some static. I'll try and contribute later to this great thread....


Have a good workout, T. I envy you - I'm fighting a cold and need to conserve energy for a long drive tonight...otherwise, I'd dearly love to toss some weights in indulge in some cob-web clearing myself...wave handshake
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Oct 30, 2008 11:45 AM CST The Limits of Free Will: Can one will oneself in and out of love?
lktolbert
lktolbertlktolbertAtlanta, Georgia USA1 Threads 190 Posts
Ambrose2007: Why not a cold Bud??

But seriously, Linda...can you offer reasons why you think my friend's right? I think that would help balance what's bound to be a rather lopsided discussion (I suspect virtually everyone will reject his thesis). Someone with your brains should make a rather formidable ally to my ole buddy...


I would much rather discuss what each of us is going to wear for Halloween, but okay...okay....


Your friend is correct because the human mind has that potential. My question is....Why would one want to work THAT hard? There are enough potential love prospects available to negate the need for such tedius mental effort. I would rather spend that energy finding a fabulous Halloween costume. hug
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