More On the Death Of Baby P...... ( Archived) (24)

Nov 16, 2008 6:42 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
Haringey ‘overruled’ attempt to put Baby P into care
Adam Fresco, Crime Correspondent

A senior manager at the social services department in Haringey, North London, overruled the concerns of colleagues and senior police officers to return Baby P to his mother and his eventual death, it has been claimed.

Panorama will state tonight that Sylvia Henry, a social worker, had decided in December 2006, after Baby P was taken to hospital with non-accidental injuries, that he should be taken into foster care. She was overruled. Ms Henry had arranged a placement, but it was decided after discussions with senior managers that the toddler should be looked after by a family friend instead, according to the BBC programme.

In her witness statement, given to police and seen by the programme, Ms Henry said that she was “very reluctant” to allow the child to go to the family friend, Angela Godfrey, but was bound by the Children Act 1989 to explore options fully with extended family and friends.

In her statement she said: “My impression of Angela was that she believed the local authority was overreacting and that the explanation for Baby P’s injuries were those of his mother’s, that they were caused by rough play and by his head-banging.”
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Fearing for Baby P’s safety, Ms Henry had delayed his return to his mother, agreeing with police that the child should remain out of her care. According to the BBC programme, What Happened to Baby P?, however, she was instructed by a senior colleague that the child should go home.

Ms Henry said that she had kept the foster place open but, because there was no evidence for a prosecution, “reluctantly it was agreed that with changes to the home environment in place and all the support services in place with the family, there were little grounds for Baby P to remain out of the care of his mother”.

Haringey has told Panorama that the only consideration in any decision is the welfare of the child. It denies that any concerns about the placement of Baby P with Ms Godfrey were raised.

In relation to the claims of disagreements with the police, it said that a rigorous discussion between professionals was to be expected when dealing with child protection and that the police agreed to the final plans for Baby P. Senior police officers have told The Times that they were furious that they were overruled when they wanted Baby P to be taken into care.

The Times has reported previously that, when Baby P’s mother gave birth to another child while on remand in Holloway prison, social workers again argued with the police that she should be allowed to see her baby. They said they “needed to let her bond” with the child and that to do otherwise would breach her human rights.

Police objected and said that she had no right to see the child. A source said: “There was no way that police were going to allow this baby to be looked after by the mother.”

(Cont'd).....wine
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Nov 16, 2008 6:51 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
This is the full article...the other thread was a boo boo....uh oh
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Nov 16, 2008 6:57 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Ive been following this one for a couple of weeks Hugz - its worse than disgusting and isnt the first time that this particular council have fatally failed a child.

A few yrs back (2000) there was the case of Victoria Climbié and a similar end to her short life - there were supposed to have been changes made after a government investigation into little Victorias death - same council - but the unions and others are supporting the social services and saying the government themselves had tied the hands of social workers by the excessive application of 'red tape'..........
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Nov 16, 2008 6:57 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
All I can say is that this whole thing is a shame, and I hope that the people who could have helped and didn't don't have another restful night in their lives. I also hope that they learn from this and don't ever repeat their mistake.

If good comes out of it, then that little life wasn't a total waste.

blues hug
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Nov 16, 2008 6:59 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
The pictures on the news of little baby 'P' are most upsetting...
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Nov 16, 2008 7:04 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
The Panorama prog airs tonight (good programme) - I reckon it will have record viewings......
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Nov 16, 2008 7:07 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
trish123: Ive been following this one for a couple of weeks Hugz - its worse than disgusting and isnt the first time that this particular council have fatally failed a child.

A few yrs back (2000) there was the case of Victoria Climbié and a similar end to her short life - there were supposed to have been changes made after a government investigation into little Victorias death - same council - but the unions and others are supporting the social services and saying the government themselves had tied the hands of social workers by the excessive application of 'red tape'..........



Yes I saw that in the last article that was posted on here about that little girl dying as well...and it's a shame that political support exists in the face of sheer negligence...I mean the one social worker visited 9 times and believed the mother all 9 times...but then I can see if the Council was over-ruling them...how and why that may have came about...It's just a shame in all this...that the only thing people want to do is cover their asses and not take responsibility for his death...and think the whole bunch of them...whoever was a part of and not doing their jobs need to be criminally charged...lose their jobs...and be held accountable for not just this little boys death...but also for the other little girl who died....wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet mumbling
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Nov 16, 2008 7:19 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
Hugz_n_Kissez: Yes I saw that in the last article that was posted on here about that little girl dying as well...and it's a shame that political support exists in the face of sheer negligence...I mean the one social worker visited 9 times and believed the mother all 9 times...but then I can see if the Council was over-ruling them...how and why that may have came about...It's just a shame in all this...that the only thing people want to do is cover their asses and not take responsibility for his death...and think the whole bunch of them...whoever was a part of and not doing their jobs need to be criminally charged...lose their jobs...and be held accountable for not just this little boys death...but also for the other little girl who died....


The social services here are so screwed up it isnt true - they march around like the gestapo picking on people for the flimsiest of reasons but they never actually cut the mustard as in actually being helpful to anybody..
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Nov 16, 2008 7:26 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
RobbieM
RobbieMRobbieMHertford, Hertfordshire, England UK115 Threads 6 Polls 4,553 Posts
There's only one way to stop parental cruelty of this nature......the death penalty.

I would also prosecute the social services personnel who by lack of action, by accident or denail of responsibility allowed by their lack of action a child to be tortured to death.

Those resposible need to be made an example of, named, shamed and hung out to dry.

I am sick of the term "learn out lessons" when they clearly don't...it's time for something akin to corporate manslaughter to be brought to bare.

Personally i'd frigging hang them.
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Nov 16, 2008 7:27 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
trish123
trish123trish123Macclesfield, Cheshire, England UK177 Threads 4 Polls 13,724 Posts
RobbieM: There's only one way to stop parental cruelty of this nature......the death penalty.

I would also prosecute the social services personnel who by lack of action, by accident or denail of responsibility allowed by their lack of action a child to be tortured to death.

Those resposible need to be made an example of, named, shamed and hung out to dry.

I am sick of the term "learn out lessons" when they clearly don't...it's time for something akin to corporate manslaughter to be brought to bare.

Personally i'd frigging hang them.


Im inclined to agree Robbie............
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Nov 16, 2008 7:30 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
RobbieM
RobbieMRobbieMHertford, Hertfordshire, England UK115 Threads 6 Polls 4,553 Posts
trish123: Im inclined to agree Robbie............


Shame it want leaked earlier, i could have strung them up myself as their only 12 miles from me.

Some people are vermin.
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Nov 16, 2008 7:32 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
druidess6308: All I can say is that this whole thing is a shame, and I hope that the people who could have helped and didn't don't have another restful night in their lives. I also hope that they learn from this and don't ever repeat their mistake.

If good comes out of it, then that little life wasn't a total waste.



Me too...but it's doubtful that they'll learn this time...since they didn't learn the first time from the first little girls death...something more needs to be done...to ensure they do learn this time and stop treating children as pawns in a risky game of life and death!!!!!!!!


wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet mumbling doh
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Nov 16, 2008 7:38 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
DizzyDi
DizzyDiDizzyDiLancashire, England UK26 Threads 1 Polls 1,761 Posts
RobbieM: There's only one way to stop parental cruelty of this nature......the death penalty.

I would also prosecute the social services personnel who by lack of action, by accident or denail of responsibility allowed by their lack of action a child to be tortured to death.

Those resposible need to be made an example of, named, shamed and hung out to dry.

I am sick of the term "learn out lessons" when they clearly don't...it's time for something akin to corporate manslaughter to be brought to bare.

Personally i'd frigging hang them.


for once I don't agree, the mother of baby P had hoodwinked the social services, saying she was on her own, (without man in residence) she had kept up this lie for months, She is to fault and not the services, as when she finaly called the paramedics, she went back in for her cigs and stuff!!!! all 3 adults that was living in that poor childs life, should be hung drawn and quartered in my opionionvery mad
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Nov 16, 2008 7:38 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
trish123: The social services here are so screwed up it isnt true - they march around like the gestapo picking on people for the flimsiest of reasons but they never actually cut the mustard as in actually being helpful to anybody..



And they need to be held accountable for that...they likely harass the parents who don't need it and don't do a hell of a lot of good for the ones who do need it to keep their children safe from harm....wave wink roll eyes dunno doh
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Nov 16, 2008 7:41 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
solitare
solitaresolitareBariloche, Rio Negro Argentina40 Threads 4,041 Posts
Sounds similar to the , I believe, 20 some cases in British Columbia under the Liberal Govt. of Gordon Campbell still in power there. Not only have many children died but hundreds of child records have disappeared; coroners sacked for either botching autopsies or for having spoken out for changes to the press. Native children who have died at the hands of relatives and friends far out weight others that were put into their hands despite all findings of potential dangers but also by repeated warnings from the front-line child services workers themselves who had been over-ruled by senior political appointees...BC has , I think, the worst record in Canada...So far from what I've read, all changes have only been cosmetic. Seems that the lives of native born peoples aren't worth a damn there and the beat goes on...
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Nov 16, 2008 7:44 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
RobbieM
RobbieMRobbieMHertford, Hertfordshire, England UK115 Threads 6 Polls 4,553 Posts
DizzyDi: for once I don't agree, the mother of baby P had hoodwinked the social services, saying she was on her own, (without man in residence) she had kept up this lie for months, She is to fault and not the services, as when she finaly called the paramedics, she went back in for her cigs and stuff!!!! all 3 adults that was living in that poor childs life, should be hung drawn and quartered in my opionion


So if you were a doctor examining a child with a busted ribcage that was obscured with chocolate to cover bruising would you expect any sane person coming to you for medial treatment?

How my doctors managed not to diagnose pneumonia with nearly fatal consequences is beyond me, but not noticing all these injuries? They were simply afraid of blowing the whistle on an abuser, in case legal action was taken against them.

The system is rotten, and i know....ive seen it and the complete incompetence from the inside.
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Nov 16, 2008 7:52 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
solitare: Sounds similar to the , I believe, 20 some cases in British Columbia under the Liberal Govt. of Gordon Campbell still in power there. Not only have many children died but hundreds of child records have disappeared; coroners sacked for either botching autopsies or for having spoken out for changes to the press. Native children who have died at the hands of relatives and friends far out weight others that were put into their hands despite all findings of potential dangers but also by repeated warnings from the front-line child services workers themselves who had been over-ruled by senior political appointees...BC has , I think, the worst record in Canada...So far from what I've read, all changes have only been cosmetic. Seems that the lives of native born peoples aren't worth a damn there and the beat goes on...



Yes it is...and also in Toronto with the Catholic Childrens Services....I guess government seems to think they know best rather than the professionals....so I don't even know why they bother to hire them...they obviously don't have the childrens interest in mind and are only concerned with making sure they don't get held accountable for anything...I don't know how much more disgusting it can get than when children get used as political pawns....wave wink roll eyes dunno uh oh doh
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Nov 16, 2008 8:01 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
DizzyDi
DizzyDiDizzyDiLancashire, England UK26 Threads 1 Polls 1,761 Posts
RobbieM: So if you were a doctor examining a child with a busted ribcage that was obscured with chocolate to cover bruising would you expect any sane person coming to you for medial treatment?

How my doctors managed not to diagnose pneumonia with nearly fatal consequences is beyond me, but not noticing all these injuries? They were simply afraid of blowing the whistle on an abuser, in case legal action was taken against them.

The system is rotten, and i know....ive seen it and the complete incompetence from the inside.


I did not say that!!!! not on about your doctors, the doctor that saw Baby P had no communication for over 8 months ! more or less of not the right hand not knowing what the left is doing!

I do not take it personaly if my Dr sends out the social services about my children, I think they are doing their job, this Dr claimed that the baby should not be returned to "the family" but was unaware that he had, and there was no communication to say different frustrated
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Nov 16, 2008 8:10 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
RobbieM
RobbieMRobbieMHertford, Hertfordshire, England UK115 Threads 6 Polls 4,553 Posts
DizzyDi: I did not say that!!!! not on about your doctors, the doctor that saw Baby P had no communication for over 8 months ! more or less of not the right hand not knowing what the left is doing!

I do not take it personaly if my Dr sends out the social services about my children, I think they are doing their job, this Dr claimed that the baby should not be returned to "the family" but was unaware that he had, and there was no communication to say different


Nothing would now surprise me now with this case....it will deteriorate into a blame game, and you can bet the most junior staff will carry the can for this.

And i just bet they referred this matter up the food chain after every visit, and nothing was done.

Evidence will also be fabricated as well if needbe, people are not beyond this!

In my case for example i was informed my original blood tests showed no signs of me having any infection, and i had a soft tissue injury.

The truth was i was never even requested to have a blood test, and the 2nd doctor slipped up and told me, he looked at the notes on the computer and then hay presto...the blood results were negative.

It's called fabrication, happens in local government, in act anywhere where incompetance will get them sued....i asked for an apology in writing in my case, and took no action.
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Nov 16, 2008 8:15 PM CST More On the Death Of Baby P......
Hugz_n_Kissez
Hugz_n_KissezHugz_n_KissezSomeplace, Ontario Canada59 Threads 2 Polls 25,438 Posts
RobbieM: Nothing would now surprise me now with this case....it will deteriorate into a blame game, and you can bet the most junior staff will carry the can for this.

And i just bet they referred this matter up the food chain after every visit, and nothing was done.

Evidence will also be fabricated as well if needbe, people are not beyond this!

In my case for example i was informed my original blood tests showed no signs of me having any infection, and i had a soft tissue injury.

The truth was i was never even requested to have a blood test, and the 2nd doctor slipped up and told me, he looked at the notes on the computer and then hay presto...the blood results were negative.

It's called fabrication, happens in local government, in act anywhere where incompetance will get them sued....i asked for an apology in writing in my case, and took no action.



That's the sad part...if the real problems are never identified...rooted out and the people are never made to be held accountable...why would anything ever get any better despite words to the contrary...and the even sadder part is...it's all at the expense of children and in your case an adult....but both human beings who should mean far more than anything else....wave wink hug teddybear hug bouquet roll eyes mumbling
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