The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious ( Archived) (44)

Dec 2, 2008 9:48 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Hi,

Just wondering if anyone here uses or has used the I Ching?

I lost my Richard Wilhelm translation, so I bought another yesterday.

When I have used the technique in the past, I use the three coin method, using real Chinese coins, with the hole in the centre.

The Wilhelm translation had a forward by Carl Jung, where he talked of the collective unconscious, and how we can tap into that part of our wonderful universe.

I would love to hear from anyone interested in this and any other form of intuitive divination you might use or have used. I sometimes use Doreen Virtue's Angel Cards. Others around are Rune stones, Egyptian cards, Tarot and others. I find it all fascinating as these are all tools that allow us to tap into the above 'collective unconscious', and our own connectedness to same at any one point in time.

Look forward to hearing from you, and maybe have this as a place for some serious though, fun, discussion of anything along these lines.

conversing peace
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Dec 2, 2008 10:23 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
I have a Quest tarot deck that incorporates the I Ching in the design so it can also be used for readings, but haven't used it for that. I have many decks, both tarot and oracle types, as well as runes. I uses Doreen Virtue's Ascended Master deck a lot, a Celtic tarot deck, and an Animal Totem deck...but I have many. Oh, the Soul Cards are great also. Yes, they're great tools for tapping into the collective conscious of the Universe, and I use them often. If I pay attention, I learn a lot, and all goes well.

Have you ever had a deck give you the reading you need instead of the one you ask it for? I have two decks that do that to me.

handshake
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Dec 2, 2008 10:28 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
I don't believe in divination...the act of divination changes the divined...the future is truly "in flux" as it is only a piece of something that cannot be percieved as a whole.

Except through dreams...interpreting dreams tells us our present...which is all there really is...
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Dec 2, 2008 10:41 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
druidess6308: I have a Quest tarot deck that incorporates the I Ching in the design so it can also be used for readings, but haven't used it for that. I have many decks, both tarot and oracle types, as well as runes. I uses Doreen Virtue's Ascended Master deck a lot, a Celtic tarot deck, and an Animal Totem deck...but I have many. Oh, the Soul Cards are great also. Yes, they're great tools for tapping into the collective conscious of the Universe, and I use them often. If I pay attention, I learn a lot, and all goes well.

Have you ever had a deck give you the reading you need instead of the one you ask it for? I have two decks that do that to me.


Hi druidess,

Oh, yes. Often. Some 'answers' are way off topic. That just merely tells me that I need to foucs on what is currently of greater importance for my well being. That has happened using the I Ching, Doreen Virtue's Angel cards(2 diff. packs), and Runes in the past. I have also found that in the end we ultimately make our final decision regardless of the 'reading'. I can tell you a dramatic instance of this using the I Ching, back in '85. But that is for another time. Oh, and a story using the Tarot, which I thought was just a game at the time.

And you are so right about "If I pay attention". Sometimes, I have had a real job of 'tuning in' to the ol' collective. It certainly requires one to be calm, and focussed at the time.


wave
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Dec 2, 2008 10:56 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Galactic_bodhi: I don't believe in divination...the act of divination changes the divined...the future is truly "in flux" as it is only a piece of something that cannot be percieved as a whole.

Except through dreams...interpreting dreams tells us our present...which is all there really is...


Oh, yes, the future is definitely always in flux. I have spent hours talking to a quantum physicist. It is enough to send you silly, listening to him talk about being even able to change your past. And stuff about transmutation. I personally thought he was a bit dippy, but them's the laws of quantum physics! Anyway, q/p's can now measure holographic matrices that we create each time we have a thought + vivid visualisation + intense emotion. We can each apparently create our own realities. I find it exciting. I once, with a brother of mine present, stared so intensely at a packet of 'lime and cracket pepper' packet of chips in a hospital vending machine, when we walked past it after seeing my mother who was in one of the wards, as I was lusting after it. Neither of us had change so I just kept staring and drooling. Next thing you know, the gleaming stainless steel lever was released, one pkt of chips dropped, and the lever simply closed again. In disbelief, I bent down and collected the chips. To this day my brother recounts it and demands I come up with lucky lotto numbers.I told that quantum physicist and he just shrugged it off as simply the garden variety type of transmutation!!!

And we don't need to believe in divination. The collective unconscious is there regardless. Tools are there for those who want to tap into this. If not, you just simply do not use them.dunno

wave
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Dec 2, 2008 10:58 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
popcorn popcorn
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Dec 2, 2008 10:59 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
venere08: Oh, yes, the future is definitely always in flux. I have spent hours talking to a quantum physicist. It is enough to send you silly, listening to him talk about being even able to change your past. And stuff about transmutation. I personally thought he was a bit dippy, but them's the laws of quantum physics! Anyway, q/p's can now measure holographic matrices that we create each time we have a thought + vivid visualisation + intense emotion. We can each apparently create our own realities. I find it exciting. I once, with a brother of mine present, stared so intensely at a packet of 'lime and cracket pepper' packet of chips in a hospital vending machine, when we walked past it after seeing my mother who was in one of the wards, as I was lusting after it. Neither of us had change so I just kept staring and drooling. Next thing you know, the gleaming stainless steel lever was released, one pkt of chips dropped, and the lever simply closed again. In disbelief, I bent down and collected the chips. To this day my brother recounts it and demands I come up with lucky lotto numbers.I told that quantum physicist and he just shrugged it off as simply the garden variety type of transmutation!!!

And we don't need to believe in divination. The collective unconscious is there regardless. Tools are there for those who want to tap into this. If not, you just simply do not use them.


That's what I'm saying. The tools are just that, tools. The information is already inside you...placing faith in anything outside of you like a coin, or a card, or anything, is just a crutch...you could throw suspenders across the room (like my dad used to do) and interpret the future from the way they landed...the suspenders are not the divination...they're just a tool. The divination comes from a place inside us that already knows. We just have to play tricks on it to get it to tell us, because it took its ball home and doesn't want to play anymore.
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Dec 2, 2008 11:14 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Galactic_bodhi: That's what I'm saying. The tools are just that, tools. The information is already inside you...placing faith in anything outside of you like a coin, or a card, or anything, is just a crutch...you could throw suspenders across the room (like my dad used to do) and interpret the future from the way they landed...the suspenders are not the divination...they're just a tool. The divination comes from a place inside us that already knows. We just have to play tricks on it to get it to tell us, because it took its ball home and doesn't want to play anymore.


Perhaps you misunderstand me, bodhi. There is no IT. We are in agreement there. Any 'information' gained does come to us from within. We were, however, not on this planet alone. That is all. And there is much still to learn. If we think we know it all, we are very wrong.dunno handshake
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Dec 2, 2008 11:18 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
venere08: Perhaps you misunderstand me, bodhi. There is no IT. We are in agreement there. Any 'information' gained does come to us from within. We were, however, not on this planet alone. That is all. And there is much still to learn. If we think we know it all, we are very wrong.


Thinking we know it all and actually knowing it all are two different things...the primary difference being thought itself. Much as mind is an impediment in martial arts, its also an impediment to "knowing" anything at all. Hence why we have to play tricks on ourselves to perceive our own infinity...
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Dec 2, 2008 11:22 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Galactic_bodhi: Thinking we know it all and actually knowing it all are two different things...the primary difference being thought itself. Much as mind is an impediment in martial arts, its also an impediment to "knowing" anything at all. Hence why we have to play tricks on ourselves to perceive our own infinity...


Sorry bodhi, Ya got me.

What tricks? Our own infinity?

confused confused
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Dec 2, 2008 11:30 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Hi Dawn,

All that popcorn of yours made me hungry.laugh

So now I am munching on some cheese and dried fruit. Much better!

wave
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Dec 2, 2008 11:34 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
venere08: Sorry bodhi, Ya got me.

What tricks? Our own infinity?


Have you ever stood between two mirrors, trying to perceive the infinity of reflections? You cant; your eye is opaque, and blocks the resonance of reflected light between the two surfaces.

The totality that is our being exists outside of time, at the quantum level...our consciousness, or mind, is a resonance, and that implies boundaries to resonate from, as in an echo. In order to communicate with this thing that is us across the N-dimensional plane that is our totality of being, we have to use tricks like divination in order to perceive ourselves; to get the mote out of our own eye.

Its' my belief that dreams do the same thing for us without all the hollywood FX. It is our mind (the box) resonating with the infinity that is really us...

JMO...but its why I don't place my faith in any sort of divination...if somethings up, my overmind will make it clear to me when I'm asleep.
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Dec 2, 2008 11:36 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08:
Hi Dawn,

All that popcorn of yours made me hungry.

So now I am munching on some cheese and dried fruit. Much better!


Hi all your conversation is fascinating thanks I like how you and Bodhi's minds both work. Here I will teleport some popcorn to you right now. Sorry just teasing that's why I need to be silent.
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Dec 2, 2008 11:51 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Galactic_bodhi: Its' my belief that dreams do the same thing for us without all the hollywood FX. It is our mind (the box) resonating with the infinity that is really us...

JMO...but its why I don't place my faith in any sort of divination...if somethings up, my overmind will make it clear to me when I'm asleep.


What is this hollywood FX?confused

But bodhi, your 'overmind' is also a tool, is it not?

As for dreams, yes, dream analysis can help provide some answers while we are asleep, only because that is generally when we are at our most relaxed state (and therefore more vulnerable and receptive to 'the collective unconscious' which includes our own.

I once had a friend who has a very pwerful mind, call me one morning, and asked me to pass on his apologies to my brother. Reason? He had entered my brother's dreams that night, and he had not meant to, so apologised for it. He then proceeded to tell me what the dreams were, and my brother did in fact verify it. (This is the same man who, having bought just one car lottery ticket, won the merc. Were we surprised? Nope. He told us he had focussed on the winning ticket).

One time I make no effort in interpreting a bad dream is when it occurs after I had eaten VERY late the night before! Never fails to give me bad dreams!

Anyway, I did not want this thread to be about debating the merits or otherwise, because I do admit I am not very well equipped with all the technical machinations of how our mind, or even our overmind, as you say, so intricately communcicates with the universe or even just our own mind. What I do invite is discussion from people who do use these tools and others, our mind being the central, pivotal tool here, to explore and perhaps gain a better understanding of themselves and how they connect to the wider universe. Because connect to the wider universe, we do. That is a given.

thumbs up
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Dec 2, 2008 11:52 PM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
venere08:

I once had a friend who has a very pwerful mind,


'powerful', sorry!
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Dec 3, 2008 12:00 AM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
druidess6308:

Have you ever had a deck give you the reading you need instead of the one you ask it for? I have two decks that do that to me.


Which decks do that for you?

conversing bouquet
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Dec 3, 2008 12:00 AM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
Galactic_bodhi
Galactic_bodhiGalactic_bodhiAkron, Ohio USA609 Threads 1 Polls 9,196 Posts
Your choice. I'm out...super
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Dec 3, 2008 12:02 AM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
cardsfan24
cardsfan24cardsfan24somewhere in paradise, Illinois USA40 Threads 1 Polls 5,169 Posts
Who you gonna cal GHOSTBUSTERSlaugh
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Dec 3, 2008 12:04 AM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Dawn7z: Hi all your conversation is fascinating thanks I like how you and Bodhi's minds both work. Here I will teleport some popcorn to you right now. Sorry just teasing that's why I need to be silent.


Hi Dawn,

Ye gads, what a scary thought! Re how my mind works!laugh

Please, teleport as much popcorn as you like. Q/p's would say you canroll eyes help

Please, do not be silent! If I wanted to talk to myself, I would not invite you all here!conversing

applause
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Dec 3, 2008 12:07 AM CST The "I Ching" (The Book of Changes) and the collective unconscious
venere08
venere08venere08Puglia and Autumn, South Australia Australia121 Threads 2 Polls 9,996 Posts
Galactic_bodhi: Your choice. I'm out...


You silly boycomfort

Don't want you to leave. But mine is not the mind to be able to deal with the complexities you raise, that is all. I wish it were, but it ain't.sigh

So please, do stay/come back. Maybe someone else with much higher intellect than myself, can enter into complex discourse with you. My contributions must remain on a more 'earthly' level, regardsless of my talk of 'universe'laugh

handshake
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