The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade... (20)

Jan 2, 2009 3:41 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France81 Threads 4 Polls 3,669 Posts
A few years ago I picked up a few books on the subject of the Templars and The Knights of Malta...And every npw and then there are mass suicides pertaining to represent various masonic lodges...

I know very little about the funny handshake brigade or P2 or Opus Dei or the Order of Sion..

But from all the names that crop up in the books that I've read the all seem (families) seem to be the captains of industry today, in charge of banks and some are even Kings and Queens of various countries..

ANy if any one could point me in the right direction to find out more or explain on this thread what the craic is I would ber grateful...

What I know is the templars where more or less heretics(accoring to some authors) but they understood medicine (hence the red cross today)and they where 'opposed' to the catholic church...but the catholic church used the templars to gaurd its(Catholic church) wealth...Even today it's the Swiss guard who protect the pope...
Jan 2, 2009 8:35 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
phoenix:
What I know is the templars where more or less heretics(accoring to some authors) but they understood medicine (hence the red cross today)and they were 'opposed' to the catholic church...but the catholic church used the templars to gaurd its wealth...Even today it's the Swiss guard who protect the pope...



First of all, the Templars were a sect of the Catholic Church.
At that time there were no protestants, so the Catholic church was the only church.

I call them a sect because although it was originally a Catholic order, the Templars veered away from standard Catholic doctrine and began to create a lot of wierd rituals and doctrines.

Such wierdness is used to take a sect out of contact with the outside world. The wierder the doctrines, the more independent the order becomes from any sort of centralized control.

Also the wierder the doctrines of a group, the less likely its members will ever be drawn back into mainstream society.

The Templars worshipped a demon-god called Baphomat.
I have seen images of Baphomat carved into the stones at ruins of Templar castles.

The templars had a tremendous influence on modern satanism.

The Ordo Templis Orientis, The Golden Dawn, The Freemasons, and a lot of other ritualistic Satanic type sects trace their own roots back to the Templars.

Such links may be largely myth, but myth is a force to be reckoned with in the world of occultism.

The Swiss Guard has nothing to do with the Templars.

The break between the Templars and the Church came when the Templars began to use their financial and military power to influence political affairs in the kingdoms of Europe after the crusades.
Jan 4, 2009 1:46 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
breezee
breezeebreezeeathens, Attica Greece20 Threads 1,136 Posts
RayfromUSA: First of all, the Templars were a sect of the Catholic Church.
At that time there were no protestants, so the Catholic church was the only church.

I call them a sect because although it was originally a Catholic order, the Templars veered away from standard Catholic doctrine and began to create a lot of wierd rituals and doctrines.

Such wierdness is used to take a sect out of contact with the outside world. The wierder the doctrines, the more independent the order becomes from any sort of centralized control.

Also the wierder the doctrines of a group, the less likely its members will ever be drawn back into mainstream society.

The Templars worshipped a demon-god called Baphomat.
I have seen images of Baphomat carved into the stones at ruins of Templar castles.

The templars had a tremendous influence on modern satanism.

The Ordo Templis Orientis, The Golden Dawn, The Freemasons, and a lot of other ritualistic Satanic type sects trace their own roots back to the Templars.

Such links may be largely myth, but myth is a force to be reckoned with in the world of occultism.

The Swiss Guard has nothing to do with the Templars.

The break between the Templars and the Church came when the Templars began to use their financial and military power to influence political affairs in the kingdoms of Europe after the crusades.
Hello Ray! wave
The Catholic Church was NOT the only church at the time......

Also, I had the impression that the reason the Templars were rounded up and burnt en masse in the fields mostly in France but other places too was that they had become too rich and owned too much land after a couple of hundred years of inovative, enterprising activity (they sort of invented banking in those days and were also given tonnes of land by the nobles that joined their ranks)... a force to be reckoned with, the king of France (am not a historian and can't remember his name) and the Catholic church felt threatened by their influence and rounded them up, inquisitioned them, burnt them at stakes and took their lands (which I thought was very clever and enterprising of the Catholic church in those days - also kinda typical).

Also, I agree the Templars may have been a bit weird in their ways but not really much weirder than the perverted Catholic church in those days (coz there's nothing perverted about churches these days uh oh )

angel
Jan 4, 2009 4:12 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
rizlaredonline today!
rizlaredonline today!rizlaredNot in Cebu City, Central Visayas Philippines89 Threads 2 Polls 5,588 Posts
breezee: Hello Ray!
The Catholic Church was NOT the only church at the time......

Also, I had the impression that the reason the Templars were rounded up and burnt en masse in the fields mostly in France but other places too was that they had become too rich and owned too much land after a couple of hundred years of inovative, enterprising activity (they sort of invented banking in those days and were also given tonnes of land by the nobles that joined their ranks)... a force to be reckoned with, the king of France (am not a historian and can't remember his name) and the Catholic church felt threatened by their influence and rounded them up, inquisitioned them, burnt them at stakes and took their lands (which I thought was very clever and enterprising of the Catholic church in those days - also kinda typical).

Also, I agree the Templars may have been a bit weird in their ways but not really much weirder than the perverted Catholic church in those days (coz there's nothing perverted about churches these days )


Your account is very close to the actuality that took place, the King was Philip IV, he was a very powerful man and took advantage of a weak Pope Clement V, he arrested the then leader of the Knights Templar and tortured him mercilessly until he confessed to hideous crimes and rituals, it was the Pope, who then intervened, he asked to interview the Knights leaders and ascertain the truth. In the mean time the King seized the wealth of the knights, to pay off his considerable debts and resurrected the banking system the Templars had created.

An account of the interviews was written down and only found some few years ago, having been lost after Napoleon ransacked the archives, which seemed to confirm the details held by King Philip IV, Pope Clement V decided to hide this information and going against the King, the Pope, as the only person able to do so, absolved all of the knights templar, and they were released, much to the kings annoyance as he wanted them all dead. (Guilt??)
The resurrection of the Templar then started, this was done in secret, and exists today as what I believe would be considered a cult, I have over the years followed many of the Templers trails across the Mediterranean region, there is no doubt in my mind that their belief in the Catholic Church was total, but became clouded by their treatment by the French King and lack of support by the Vatican.
The Templars of today, are actually trying to sue the Vatican for the return of their money, yet it was the King who stole their wealth, although history shows that the Church also received huge sums of money and land from the Templars as gifts. The very existence of knights is wholly down to the Catholic church, which in my opinion they (the Templars) should be grateful.

Whether there is a connection between the Templar and Masonic lodges remains a mystery, but one that cannot be ruled out.
Jan 4, 2009 4:59 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
Born in Blood,

The lost secrets of Freemasonry

By John J. Robinson

London : Century, 1989, xix + 376 pp.


Reviewed by Bro. John M. Hamill

I had thought that masonic scholars, at least, had convincingly debunked the theory (more properly, legend) that Freemasonry had its origins in the medieval Knights Templar. The legend persists, however, and seems to have an eternal fascination for non-masons. The book under review is by an American writer who is not a freemason who has produced a book which is, on the surface, persuasively argued and a rattling good read. Therein, lies its danger.
As the author states, his original intention was not to write about either freemasons or Templars but to satisfy his own curiosity about certain questions arising from the Peasants' Revolt of 1381. The first half of the book discusses the situation in England, the Knights Hospitaller and the revolt itself. In the course of his researches he discovered evidence for a very shadowy secret society which led him on to consider the Templars, their fate and the origins of Freemasonry. He posits the theory that the secret society was an inner circle of Templars/Hospitallers who eventually became the founders of Freemasonry.
Turning to Freemasonry he examines the rituals of the three Craft degrees and looks for links with the Templars through masonic language. A fair enough approach had he gone to the basic sources for ritual. Regrettably the author used as his text not the early masonic catechisms and exposures (either English or French) but a nineteenth-century American exposure, M. W. Redding’s The Scarlet Book of Freemasonry. In so doing he found a number of examples to bolster his theory, examples which are peculiar to that book and do not appear in either the early English ritual texts or the modern English rituals.
It is a great pity that this book cannot be wholeheartedly recommended for it performs one extremely valuable service for Freemasonry. The author gives a devastating critique of the late Stephen Knight’s The Brotherhood, which caused so many problems for English Freemasonry in the 1980s. That critique becomes even more devastating and valuable when one knows that its author is not himself a freemason and has no neccessity to defend Freemasonry, but is a man of integrity who dislikes uncalled for, dishonest and fanatical attacks on any human institution which is based upon principles and has the intention of being of service to mankind rather than serving selfish self-interest.
The present reviewer finds himself in a quandary. The book is a good read. It has many positive things to say about Freemasonry but, unfortunately, the basic thesis is seriously flawed. Read with care, and preferably after a reading of Peter Partner’s excellent study The Murdered Magicians, the Templars and their Myth, the author has done a service to Freemasonry. I fear, however, that he has also given an additional source to the religious detractors of Freemasonry who will quote him out of context and use the Templar myth to claim that Freemasonry is an alternative to or subversive of religion.



I have read the Book,make some interesting reading.

Full Review here:



wave

No I am Not a Mason!
Jan 4, 2009 5:43 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
rizlaredonline today!
rizlaredonline today!rizlaredNot in Cebu City, Central Visayas Philippines89 Threads 2 Polls 5,588 Posts
Good point Conrad, but, it just proves that the connection between the Templars and Masons will remain mystery, maybe history will some day come up with some written proof,but don't hold your breathlaugh
Jan 4, 2009 5:47 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
rizlared: Good point Conrad, but, it just proves that the connection between the Templars and Masons will remain mystery, maybe history will some day come up with some written proof,but don't hold your breath
Tat Fellow Robinson draws some interesting logical Conclusions on that.
Sometimes that might be the closest we can come to real Proof in a Matter.
Like I say,the Book he wrote has some interesting stuff to that effect in it.wave
Jan 4, 2009 11:51 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
rizlared:
Whether there is a connection between the Templar and Masonic lodges remains a mystery, but one that cannot be ruled out.



The Masons, for centuries, claimed that their order (freemasonry as opposed to the pre-existing mason's guild) was founded upon the order of Jacques DeMolay (prior to his execution).

Only recently has freemasonry backed away from that claim, wanting to distance themselves somewhat from the Templar legacy.

However whether the Knights Templar founded freemasonry or not, within freemasonry, there is an entire Rite called the Knights Templar.

In fact that is the only Knights Templar that exists today, a branch of freemasonry.

It's ridiculous for them to claim any sort of reparitions for what happened centuries ago to people with whom they have no historical link other than a name they borrowed.

From wikipedia
Since at least the 1700s the York Rite of Freemasonry has incorporated some Templar symbols and rituals, and has a modern degree called "the Order of the Temple". The Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of Jerusalem, founded in 1804, has achieved United Nations NGO status as a charitable organization. There is no clear historical link between the Knights Templar, which were dismantled in the 1300s, and any of these other organizations, of which the earliest emerged in the 1700s. However, there is often public confusion and many overlook the 400-year gap.

If the freemason/KTs do get any money out of the Catholic Church it will be due to the power of freemasonry, not any sort of justice .

Check out these sites of Freemason/Knights Templar regalia:







Jan 4, 2009 12:15 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
smoky
smokysmokyUnterland, Zurich Switzerland266 Threads 6 Polls 9,412 Posts
Oh, you talking about that Secret Society that George Bush belongs to...? ... That one where new members go thru an inititiaton rite ..... they have to kill a chicken,get naked, pull the carcass over their you-know-what, and then do a sort of dance on the main table with their hands behind their back.....? After that they get upgraded and the next time they get to kill a goat or a sheep, drink the blood, and wear the skin while they dance around the tables, or something like that?

... and they got all sorts of cute little "recognise each other" handshakes so when they apply for jobs and the boss-man shakes their hand they know Who is gonna get the job?

........................

The Swiss guard the pope! That`ll be the day! The Knights Templar cross is an elongated cross like the churches use ... it was used, in white, on the fighting Knights shields. Not the Red Cross.

The Sons of Sion was based in CH - those with an interest in history can look up the connection - I dont have the time.cheers
Jan 4, 2009 1:02 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
jan45
jan45jan45Sofia, Sofia City Bulgaria12 Threads 6 Polls 480 Posts
Very interesting!I found the page of the Templars here in Bulgaria!Take a look..

Jan 4, 2009 1:24 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
phoenix
phoenixphoenixparis, Ile-de-France France81 Threads 4 Polls 3,669 Posts
Folks..

Thanks for sticking up the links and the input..seriously thanks..

bouquet
Jan 4, 2009 2:05 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
Conrad73: ...Turning to Freemasonry he examines the rituals of the three Craft degrees and looks for links with the Templars through masonic language. ...



Any "study" of freemasonry that limits itself to the three craft degrees is essentially a sham study.

The craft degrees are the masonic equivalent of kindergarten and serve only as a seedbed from which recruits are chosen to enter the various "rites".

It is within the large powerful rites (york, scottish, shriners, etc) where all the real secrets of freemasonry are hidden and no one can really "study" those rites from the exterior. They would have no way of discerning truth from disinformation.

Publications by Masonic leaders show that the Templar/Freemason link, whether initially based on truth or fable, is in either case very strong.

Eliphas Levi was a famous freemason and occultist.

Recently, the masons tend to downplay his membership.


Nonetheless his writings are published and sold extensively through Masonic channels.

In 1854, Eliphas Levi published "Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie" ("Dogmas and Rituals of High Magic"), in which he included an image which he described as "Baphomet" and "The Sabbatic Goat". Levi's depiction is similar to that of the Devil in early tarot cards, and very similar to grotesque carvings on Templar churches depicting a squatting bearded man with bat wings, female breasts, horns and goatlike hindquarters.

Baphomet was the name of an idol mentioned in many of the Templar confessions (some, but not all, made under torture).

It is certain that present-day Freemasons perpetuate legends of a Templar-Masonic link including veiled homage to the Baphomet idol.

One example of this is the statue of George Washington in the Washington Monument. The statue was clearly designed to resemble the drawing of Baphomet made by Eliphas Levi.

Baphomet image as drawn by Eliphas Levi:


Statue of (supposedly) George Washington in the Washington monument:
Jan 4, 2009 3:04 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA: Any "study" of freemasonry that limits itself to the three craft degrees is essentially a sham study.

The craft degrees are the masonic equivalent of kindergarten and serve only as a seedbed from which recruits are chosen to enter the various "rites".

It is within the large powerful rites (york, scottish, shriners, etc) where all the real secrets of freemasonry are hidden and no one can really "study" those rites from the exterior. They would have no way of discerning truth from disinformation.

Publications by Masonic leaders show that the Templar/Freemason link, whether initially based on truth or fable, is in either case very strong.

Eliphas Levi was a famous freemason and occultist.

Recently, the masons tend to downplay his membership.


Nonetheless his writings are published and sold extensively through Masonic channels.

In 1854, Eliphas Levi published "Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie" ("Dogmas and Rituals of High Magic"), in which he included an image which he described as "Baphomet" and "The Sabbatic Goat". Levi's depiction is similar to that of the Devil in early tarot cards, and very similar to grotesque carvings on Templar churches depicting a squatting bearded man with bat wings, female breasts, horns and goatlike hindquarters.

Baphomet was the name of an idol mentioned in many of the Templar confessions (some, but not all, made under torture).

It is certain that present-day Freemasons perpetuate legends of a Templar-Masonic link including veiled homage to the Baphomet idol.

One example of this is the statue of George Washington in the Washington Monument. The statue was clearly designed to resemble the drawing of Baphomet made by Eliphas Levi.

Baphomet image as drawn by Eliphas Levi:


Statue of (supposedly) George Washington in the Washington monument:
Any "study" of freemasonry that limits itself to the three craft degrees is essentially a sham study.That was not part of my claim,neither is it the Bookauthor's,if you read Robinson's Book,which I did.That is solely the Reviewer's take of it.
dunno Read the Book you're self.
Jan 4, 2009 3:54 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
rizlaredonline today!
rizlaredonline today!rizlaredNot in Cebu City, Central Visayas Philippines89 Threads 2 Polls 5,588 Posts
RayfromUSA: Any "study" of freemasonry that limits itself to the three craft degrees is essentially a sham study.

The craft degrees are the masonic equivalent of kindergarten and serve only as a seedbed from which recruits are chosen to enter the various "rites".

It is within the large powerful rites (york, scottish, shriners, etc) where all the real secrets of freemasonry are hidden and no one can really "study" those rites from the exterior. They would have no way of discerning truth from disinformation.

Publications by Masonic leaders show that the Templar/Freemason link, whether initially based on truth or fable, is in either case very strong.

Eliphas Levi was a famous freemason and occultist.

Recently, the masons tend to downplay his membership.


Nonetheless his writings are published and sold extensively through Masonic channels.

In 1854, Eliphas Levi published "Dogme et Rituel de la Haute Magie" ("Dogmas and Rituals of High Magic"), in which he included an image which he described as "Baphomet" and "The Sabbatic Goat". Levi's depiction is similar to that of the Devil in early tarot cards, and very similar to grotesque carvings on Templar churches depicting a squatting bearded man with bat wings, female breasts, horns and goatlike hindquarters.

Baphomet was the name of an idol mentioned in many of the Templar confessions (some, but not all, made under torture).

It is certain that present-day Freemasons perpetuate legends of a Templar-Masonic link including veiled homage to the Baphomet idol.

One example of this is the statue of George Washington in the Washington Monument. The statue was clearly designed to resemble the drawing of Baphomet made by Eliphas Levi.

Baphomet image as drawn by Eliphas Levi:


Statue of (supposedly) George Washington in the Washington monument:


IMO after many years of studying the Knights Templar, the evidence that there is a connection between them and freemasons is so vague as to be meaningless, it makes more sense that the Masons took names and ideas from the Knights to use in their own cult. The original Freemasons being just that, stone masons who created a "club" to support their own line of business, this later changed to become mainly well positioned business men who wanted to support each other without being known.

There is about 400 years between the demise of the Knights Templar and the creation of the Freemasons
Jan 4, 2009 5:00 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
Y'all read Robinson's Book.
It's sort of an Eye-Opener.wave
Jan 4, 2009 7:35 PM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain34 Threads 6 Polls 4,110 Posts
Tip one: Join "Round Table" to get a better insight to how a closed organisation works, one that actually leads to a future membership in one of the higher orders. You need an invitation and you may be rejected if you do not have the right "criterias".

Tip two: Free ebook from the Project Gutenberg on Secret Societies:


Have fun wink
Jan 5, 2009 4:51 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA
RayfromUSARayfromUSAvienne, Rhone-Alpes France86 Threads 29 Polls 6,611 Posts
mike69spain: Tip one: Join "Round Table" to get a better insight to how a closed organisation works, one that actually leads to a future membership in one of the higher orders. You need an invitation and you may be rejected if you do not have the right "criterias".

Tip two: Free ebook from the Project Gutenberg on Secret Societies:


Have fun



It's a very deep rabbit-hole.
And one that few ever come back out of.
I wouldn't really advise anybody "joining" anything.
Just study about it from the exterior.
Jan 5, 2009 8:27 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
RayfromUSA: First of all, the Templars were a sect of the Catholic Church.
At that time there were no protestants, so the Catholic church was the only church.

I call them a sect because although it was originally a Catholic order, the Templars veered away from standard Catholic doctrine and began to create a lot of wierd rituals and doctrines.

Such wierdness is used to take a sect out of contact with the outside world. The wierder the doctrines, the more independent the order becomes from any sort of centralized control.

Also the wierder the doctrines of a group, the less likely its members will ever be drawn back into mainstream society.

The Templars worshipped a demon-god called Baphomat.
I have seen images of Baphomat carved into the stones at ruins of Templar castles.

The templars had a tremendous influence on modern satanism.

The Ordo Templis Orientis, The Golden Dawn, The Freemasons, and a lot of other ritualistic Satanic type sects trace their own roots back to the Templars.

Such links may be largely myth, but myth is a force to be reckoned with in the world of occultism.

The Swiss Guard has nothing to do with the Templars.

The break between the Templars and the Church came when the Templars began to use their financial and military power to influence political affairs in the kingdoms of Europe after the crusades.
That whole Baphomet Thing was most likely a Huge Hoax.



wave
Jan 5, 2009 9:36 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
smoky
smokysmokyUnterland, Zurich Switzerland266 Threads 6 Polls 9,412 Posts
RayfromUSA:
I think you've fallen for some disinformation on their initiation rituals.

.


............

Nein Darl, I was being facetious. cheers
Jan 6, 2009 6:33 AM CST The Templars and the Red Cross Brigade...
mike69spain
mike69spainmike69spainAlmuñécar, Andalusia Spain34 Threads 6 Polls 4,110 Posts
RayfromUSA: It's a very deep rabbit-hole.
And one that few ever come back out of.
I wouldn't really advise anybody "joining" anything.
Just study about it from the exterior.


Then I guess I'd better hole bunny

laugh

What it all really is, is the power of controlled networking. It works on any level and group pressure is never good when too tight a group.

Certain people are more keen to enter and "sink into a being of secrecy" then others and this is true for all groups, religious, political, sports or whatever.

A fresh breath now and then from the real world is needed.

There is a game called Live, where people meet and act a written story over a period of time in a closed area. Some claim they have been brainwashed and can not get out of their role person after the game. I think the same can be applied here.

More a matter of psycology then anything else, but beware of the power such a group can have if coontrolled by a few cold minds.

wine
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