Having a hard time understanding (9)

I, as I am sure all of us, are having a hard time wrapping our heads around the horrific murders of the two baby boy brothers in Alberta...cannot even begin to imagine; can't even find the words to finish my thoughts.
I have worked very closely with severely mentally ill people and am pretty damn sure that not one of them is capable of something like this. So, what is it. Was the mother (alleged murderer) so wrapped up in herself??? She tried to end her own life as well...didn't work. Many broken bones. I personally hope that she is in incredible pain, both physically and emotionally for the rest of her life. I hope that some mentally ill plea does not fly and that she is sent to Canadian Federal Prison.
She was not losing her boys, she was told that she could not take them to Australia, away from their daddy. Now, no one is with them...and nothing can be taken back

this is pretty close to where i live, they said it was a pretty messy separation, and he had the boys passports waiting on the decision of the court.
the police called him to tell him his wife had jumped off an overpass and was in the hospital, and he wanted to know where the boys were as she had them, and the police didnt even know about the boys. he drove to the house and found them !
just a terrible situation.

It's a sad situation no matter how you look at it.

The actions of the so called adult will never be totally understood. I can not imagine what the father is going through, after finding his sons the way he did.

I am waiting to find out if she had post parteum or something else. (Lawyers will say anything for their clients)

I will never understand a parent that has to kill their children to get back at the other parent.

.. REmember when this happened --




"Infant dies in mother's suicide bid. Leaps in front of subway carrying six-month-old boy: 37-year-old psychotherapist from affluent district in critical condition" (Brown). This was the headline in the National Post on Saturday, August 12, 2000, one day after Dr. Suzanne Killinger-Johnson attempted suicide with her baby son, Cuyler, in her arms. Cuyler died instantly, while Killinger-Johnson lingered on life support for ten days before she finally succumbed to her injuries. Her actions provoked a nation-wide response: grief, anger, and above all, disbelief. People asked, "How could she do it? She had the perfect life." By conventional standards, Killinger-Johnson appeared to be living the North American dream - well educated and attractive, she had a thriving medical practice, a successful husband, a healthy baby, a mortgage-free home, and a brand new Mercedes SUV. Many people found it very difficult to understand what motivated Killinger-Johnson to throw herself and her son in front of a speeding subway train. We will never have a precise answer to that question. Killinger-Johnson did not leave a suicide note and even those closest to her have no way of knowing what was running through her mind as she prepared to end her life and that of her son.

The Health Care system is very lucky to have a conscientious person like yourself working for them ..

And if you recall the rest of that story as it unfolded, she suffered from post partum depression. Just because they "appear" to be financially well off has nothing to do with this story. Does being rich automatically give you a a "Get out of jail" free card from any health issues? There were also stats attached to this story indicating the frequency with which women suffer from post-partum depression. Along with that were signs/symptoms to educate the public. EDUCATE.. there's a great word

The story also quotes that they have no way of knowing what was running through her mind. Had the family been paying a bit more attention they may have picked up on some clues that she was suffering from a very severe form of depression as well.

I'm not defending what happened but what I am saying is that there is always MORE to the story than the superficial initial judgements people make.

"I have worked very closely with severely mentally ill people and am pretty damn sure that not one of them is capable of something like this. So, what is it. Was the mother (alleged murderer) so wrapped up in herself??? She tried to end her own life as well...didn't work. Many broken bones. I personally hope that she is in incredible pain, both physically and emotionally for the rest of her life"

If this was true, then you would understand paranoid schizophrenics not compliant with their meds can be "instructed" to do some pretty nasty things. They can be functioning in a world you have displayed no understanding of.

Women with the diagnosis of Manic Depressive have to stay off their lithium during the pregnancy. I can't imagine that would be any kind of fun for anyone.

Undiagnosed psychiatric disorders can surface after birth, triggered by it. You don't know for sure that this isn't the case. People suffering from depression may actually feel that it is better to be dead than a life time of what they "see" as suffering.

Are you aware of whether or not she was hallucinating? That IS also part of some psychiatric disorders (paranoid schizophrenia to name one). It can occur where there is severe sleep deprivation (and god knows any parents out there know what that is with a newborn)

I see no compassion or understanding here, only uneducated judgements

readybake the majority of my response was not aimed at you but at eyesthatknow.

I find it rather interesting that you insinuate that I am dishonest about my education and my employment. I am very well educated and have substantial experience working as a very effective and valuable mental health worker; as well as working for people with differences in abilities. I have a very thorough understanding of psychiatric medications, psychiatric illnesses and behaviour/personality disorders. As well, I am very aware as to the repercussions of non-compliance. I have had to participate several times in the committal of people under the Mental Health Act. And I have to say, that the individuals diagnosed with paranoid and delusional schizophrenia whom I encountered were far more apt to hurt themselves than hurt others.
You have made the assumption that the woman that I was speaking of suffers from mental illness. At the time that this event occurred, there were no reports of any time of PPD or psychosis. The reports were that the authorities/justice system were planning a psych. evaluation. My reference to "playing the mental health"card was in reaction to being erroneously and flippantly used in the defence of violent crime. What this does is perpetuate the myths and stigmas surrounding mental illness and that those with mental illness have to face and battle against every day. Statistically, people with mental illness are far less violent than the general population. And yes, regretfully, our mental health system is so underfunded and therefor the supports are often very lacking, hence the situations do arise where people who do become a danger to themselves and others (the Manitoba greyhound bus tragedy comes to mind), are not detected quickly enough for effective intervention to occur...and several people fall through the cracks. We all try, but it is a wholly systemic problem that is the result of generations and there is no easy fix.
I personally know 4 woman who have bipolar disorder and 1 has schizoeffective disorder. I have witnessed the good, bad and ugly of the result of no meds while pregnant (and it's not always lithium) 1 lady is now in long time incarceration in a Provincial Psychiatric Centre for a violent and fatal crime. She elected to gift her child to a loving family.
As well, if we look at woman such as Susan Smith, or the woman who shot her children in Oregon in the "80's, killing one, paralysing another...both of these were diagnosed with having severe personality disorders, rather than mental illness. Personality disorders, such as narcissistic personality disorder, and anti-social personality disorder (psychopathic) do not involve chemical imbalances akin to mental illness. Hence, Some woman kill their children because they do...Yes, I understand PPD and psychosis...and if, by the grace of God, woman who suffer from this can get the support and understanding they need, and education, there will be far few tragic endings.
I have nothing but empathy and compassion for people with mental illness and their caregivers and families. I advocate for them, for more services, more supports, more education, for equality and employment and better life quality. And I resent you implying otherwise. Before you elect to pounce on someone and sit in judgement, perhaps it would be wise to get the whole story. Have yourself a great day...oh, and welcome to the CS forums, always nice to have people participating!