No, God createdspecies, maybe some micro-evolution
2
5%
No, God created all the species about 6000 y ago
5
12%
Total Votes
42
In America, Creationist have a strong voice and want Creationism or their new label, "Intelligent Design" taught in schools as an alternative to the theory of evolution. In Australia and NZ, we don't seem to go for that. Most Christians are happy to reconcile belief in the bible with evolution. They explain that the Creation story should be seen as a metaphor. What are your thoughts? If your opinion is: couldn't give a s***! then, well, think of a nice way to say that.
Do you remember Robo's picture of a long legged fox from awhile back Obs , perfect example of how animals evolve . Short leg ones don't catch the prey on offer , don't live-----> don't breed , longer leg ones take over . I think its more like 100 % rather 99 percent .
BeachnitMt gambier, South Australia Australia16 posts
The story of evaloution is amazing and difficult to comprehend the sheer amount of time in question is difficult to imagine. Im a supporter of the theory however there are still a number of unanswered questions and unexplainable things. For example the blue dragon sea slug
this creature is just one of a bunch of truly amazing creatures that its difficult to understand how exactly they would of evolved. Where does life come from its a big question that scientists are still trying to understand.
justjim63port macquarie, New South Wales Australia2,592 posts
justjim63: I'm not religious in any way shape or form, but to make the creationists happy here's a theory that might please most. Perhaps if there is a god He/She orchestrated the big bang knowing that it would set into motion the formation of the universe life and all that. It was his big plan...lol Maybe He/Her developed evolution as the means of creating life on earth, None of that rubbish about Adam and Eve, or everything being created in a few days 6000 years ago. Some peple just don't like to be associated with monkies i guess.
Or alternatively when you die you have two options. Option 1: You die and there is nothing after death. or Option 2: You die and there is a god, in which case just do the logical thing and ask how He/She did it. Problem solved!
When I have a few alcoholic beverages it kills off the weaker brain cells and makes more room for the stronger ones to become stronger... therefore natural selection works quite well as I am becoming more intelligent by the day....
justjim63: I was only semi serious in what i wrote (i'm sure you know that) I haven't got a clue to tell you the truth, but i'm sure the answer lays with science and not religion. jmo
I'm with you, Jim. Religion was a way to explain what couldn't be explained. Galileo was nearly (was) excomunnicated for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun while the Church believed everything revolved around the Earth.
The Church said that everything falls down to Earth because it is the centre of the universe. Newtown expounded the theory of gravitational forces about planets....something to do with apples but that also has something to do with being healthy.. "An apple a day?"
Hate to get hit on the noggan every day by an apple
Hans4711: When I have a few alcoholic beverages it kills off the weaker brain cells and makes more room for the stronger ones to become stronger... therefore natural selection works quite well as I am becoming more intelligent by the day....
justjim63port macquarie, New South Wales Australia2,592 posts
wash2u: I'm with you, Jim. Religion was a way to explain what couldn't be explained. Galileo was nearly (was) excomunnicated for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun while the Church believed everything revolved around the Earth.
The Church said that everything falls down to Earth because it is the centre of the universe. Newtown expounded the theory of gravitational forces about planets....something to do with apples but that also has something to do with being healthy.. "An apple a day?"
Hate to get hit on the noggan every day by an apple
Oh yes , I could not agree with the direction of your post more , that Blizzards an absolute heathern , but I should point out that you don't need to be a believer in any God to have respect for other things . From my own experience by way of marriage into a church family , I got a first hand look at a most destructive force in a family .Enough to make me very wary of any " good christians" who think they are better beings believing in a God .
MARK Dreyfus this week became just the second Jewish federal attorney-general, a position first held by Sir Isaac Isaacs nearly a century ago, a refuge from Germany on taking up office as Australian attorney-general swore an oath before o'mighty god
ObscuritanOPMelbourne, Victoria Australia1,284 posts
robplum: to complicated for any of you to think through, the op of this thread asked question "What do you think of the theory of evolution by natural selection, do you think it's correct?"! however he appears to just push his view while ignoring the answers others posted including mine. I believe all sentient beings (beings that have mind and fear death) are constantly creating tomorrows by the activities of body speech and mind driven with certainty by the certain laws of cause and effect.
Hi Rob, yes, your first post was too complicated for me to think through. You are probably right that I have ignored many of the opinions expressed here. Maybe I'll have a go shortly. I don't really have a lot of time to spend on the site so I don't post a lot. For certain reasons, I find religion a fascinating subject, but of course it is a risky subject to post about as it can generate a lot of harsh words from all and sundry.
ObscuritanOPMelbourne, Victoria Australia1,284 posts
revealer24: Oh, the Big Bang. Do you all realise it is no more than a theory and that there are a number of other theories? As long as we understand it it is fine, but once you treat it as fact you are just as religious as those who believe in God.
Revealer I find that first part patronising. You'll see if you read my post agin, that I mentioned it as a theory, and that I briefly mentioned rival theories.
revealer24: I read an article, a debate between a religious and an atheist Nobel prize scientists. It was interesting to learn that there are six cosmological constants that must take the exact specific value for the universe to exist with its physical laws and be able to support life. If any of these constants were different the minutest, the universe as we know it would not be possible as the laws of physics would be completely different. And we have six of these constants.
To overcome this problem secular science developed the idea of multiverse, that is, there are infinite numbers of universes where these constants can take up an infinite number of different values, and it just accidentally happened that in our universe these constants have the values they have.
Now, to me this requires an infinitely greater faith than belief in God.
But it seems even the weirdest speculation can be treated as science as long as it is nicely packaged to look like science.
But I suggest science should stay within the realms of the physical world that can be measured and observed, experimented on, rather than wandering off into nonsense speculations and still call it science.
They could well be nonsense speculations, but they are still science, just extremely hard to verify.
"To overcome this problem secular science developed the idea of multiverse, that is, there are infinite numbers of universes where these constants can take up an infinite number of different values, and it just accidentally happened that in our universe these constants have the values they have."
It's no accident. We developed in this universe beacause those constants have values that lead to physical laws that gave rise to mass, energy, planets and heavy elements. There may be other favourable, though different universes with life, but we'll never know.
ObscuritanOPMelbourne, Victoria Australia1,284 posts
ausguy1: Sorry but I see nothing intelligent about Intelligent design only a pile of power hungry control freaks trying to maintain control over others and two blind to accept that "God" is not that simple.
epirb: Oh yes , I could not agree with the direction of your post more , that Blizzards an absolute heathern , but I should point out that you don't need to be a believer in any God to have respect for other things . From my own experience by way of marriage into a church family , I got a first hand look at a most destructive force in a family .Enough to make me very wary of any " good christians" who think they are better beings believing in a God .
Religion doesn't make anyone necessarily better than others. At times they can even end up being worse. It depends. But through the years I met some truly great people in the churches.
The problem with Christianity in general that it became a creed religion in the first few centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem. Prior to that it was a deed religion. They lived a humble, righteous life and cared for the poor.
But after that unless you subscribed to the creeds you ended up all your properties confiscated and exiled, or even killed.
Today the original teaching is all forgotten and you find a lot of entertainment in the churches.
Obscuritan: Revealer I find that first part patronising. You'll see if you read my post agin, that I mentioned it as a theory, and that I briefly mentioned rival theories.
My apologies, I didn't write that to you personally, but in general. The general public believes the big bang is a fact and scientist know it all, and that is how those who popularize science present it.
Obscuritan: It's no accident. We developed in this universe beacause those constants have values that lead to physical laws that gave rise to mass, energy, planets and heavy elements. There may be other favourable, though different universes with life, but we'll never know.
I don't have a problem with science proposing the weirdest theories. Why not? But when they propose the idea of the multiverse - an infinite number of universes where each of these cosmological values can take up different values, in my view belief in the idea of multiverse as a reality (and not simply a mathematical model) requires an infinitely greater faith than belief in God.
MerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia11,403 posts
Blizzard14u: But I have a 4Wd? And I use it too! I also drive trucks for a living, so that makes me a professional driver? Well that’s what I tell the EX!
A long time ago Australia could have been the centre off all life, just look at the wolf creek crater, that would have knocked the world off its access, I have watched a few docos that say Australia was once covered by ice? Like Antarctica, if you look at the ranges over here you could understand that theory! As they say as glaciers melt they move and carve out the rock beneath, most off Perth is sand but the hills or plateau are full off clay and stone, its like a massive glassier moved from Eneabba 300kms north to Albany 400kms south,
(a quote from Monty python here) you are born with nothing you will die with nothing so what have you lost? nothing! So do it the Aussie way and live life too the max!
Um, I dont wanna think that I looked like a monkey at one point.. but its certainly convincing...
Blizzard14uGosnells, Western Australia Australia1,430 posts
Merriweather: Um, I dont wanna think that I looked like a monkey at one point.. but its certainly convincing...
I see nudda, I hear nudda, I speak nudda...
Evolution does not state that we evolved from monkeys! We evolved through a natural selection process over millions off years, we have all seen the docos off animals using tools to get food, so don’t expect a monkey to pop out a human baby anytime soon! In science things take a long time,
In religion it took six days then god took the seventh day off? But they don’t mention the dinosaurs?
justjim63port macquarie, New South Wales Australia2,592 posts
Blizzard14u: Evolution does not state that we evolved from monkeys! We evolved through a natural selection process over millions off years, we have all seen the docos off animals using tools to get food, so don’t expect a monkey to pop out a human baby anytime soon! In science things take a long time,
In religion it took six days then god took the seventh day off? But they don’t mention the dinosaurs?
We may not have evolved from monkeys , how ever current scientific research suggests that we did evolve from apes as unpallitable that is to some folk. look up Australopithecus Anamensis, A Afarensis, A Sediba, A Africanus.
ObscuritanOPMelbourne, Victoria Australia1,284 posts
revealer24: Rob, I responded to an insult which shouldn't have occurred. I am not pushing my views and don't really care what views others have as long as we are all respectful of each other.
And I definitely don't have a closed mind (this is an unfair assessment from you), though I have no interest in any other religions because, simply put, I don't have the time to learn about all of them. By definition I am not a Christian, nor a Jew either, simply someone who believes there is a God.
As far as I remember I responded to the subject in the thread, maybe have a read through.
Dr. Rev, I think Rob is referring to me actually. He says "The op of this thread asked the question..... OP stands for original poster." The reason he says I have a closed mind is because I have often pulled him up for denigrating christians (even though I'm not one,) and I've probably had a go at his Buddhism, something I must stop doing.
Anyway I knew evolution was going to generate a lot of comment and different opinions.
So thanks everyone for expressing your opinions; very interesting.
Note by the way that the creationists made a late rally in the poll and have a surprisingly high percentage. However, I believe we get plenty of American visitors hhere.
Obscuritan: Dr. Rev, I think Rob is referring to me actually. He says "The op of this thread asked the question..... OP stands for original poster." The reason he says I have a closed mind is because I have often pulled him up for denigrating christians (even though I'm not one,) and I've probably had a go at his Buddhism, something I must stop doing.
Anyway I knew evolution was going to generate a lot of comment and different opinions.
So thanks everyone for expressing your opinions; very interesting.
Note by the way that the creationists made a late rally in the poll and have a surprisingly high percentage. However, I believe we get plenty of American visitors hhere.
Sorry Obs, must disagree about the mention of Rob for denigrating christians . Rob does have a go at the Christian Churches and what they and many of their more ardent followers have become.
I was brought up with christian beliefs as was the norm of the time. My family were strictly baptisms, marriages and funeral goers although a lot of the extended family were regular Church goers. I was the whole hog Christian for many years until I became disallusioned with what was being preached in my Church.
I have called myself "agnostic" for much of my life. I do believe in the principles of Christ and the tenants of Moses. And you would find the Rob does as well. These principles and tenants are found in nearly all religions and philosphies although often expressed in many different ways.
People talk about "karma." Karma is the law of moral causation. The theory of Karma is a fundamental doctrine in Buddhism. This belief was prevalent in India before the advent of the Buddha. Nevertheless, it was the Buddha who explained and formulated this doctrine in the complete form in which we have it today.
From a Buddhist point of view, our present mental, moral intellectual and temperamental differences are, for the most part, due to our own actions and tendencies, both past and present.
From Old Testament point of view, it was "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" but usually interpreted as getting revenge.
And from somewhere else in the Old Testament "What you sow you shall reap."
Jesus put it a bit different again (the Bible does love to repeat itself in so many different ways) "Give unto others what you would them give to you."
i'd disagree with the view you've stated being the nature of Buddhism, and also the last Buddha, was by no means the first Buddha to appear, known Buddhist recordings date back 23.000 years.
your interpretation of the subtle winds is in my opinion flawed
Blizzard14uGosnells, Western Australia Australia1,430 posts
justjim63: We may not have evolved from monkeys , how ever current scientific research suggests that we did evolve from apes as unpallitable that is to some folk. look up Australopithecus Anamensis, A Afarensis, A Sediba, A Africanus.
Evolution off humans has taken millions off years, they say a dog ages seven years to our one? Get your self a tadpole! Within months it will go form a pond to growing legs? Is that not evolution at a more accelerated pace? Take a look at Zebras and horses! They share the same DNA but cannot cross bread?
Us humans share the same DNA as we all fall into the same blood groups? But not all off us share the same blood group?
And I we wear all made in gods image? Was that not the case of cloning?
Blizzard14u: Evolution off humans has taken millions off years, they say a dog ages seven years to our one? Get your self a tadpole! Within months it will go form a pond to growing legs? Is that not evolution at a more accelerated pace? Take a look at Zebras and horses! They share the same DNA but cannot cross bread?
Us humans share the same DNA as we all fall into the same blood groups? But not all off us share the same blood group?
And I we wear all made in gods image? Was that not the case of cloning?
Now where is dolly the sheep?
We do have our own perceptions of what we (or God/gods) want us to bee. I want to be Adonis
MerriweatherAdelaide, South Australia Australia11,403 posts
justjim63: We may not have evolved from monkeys , how ever current scientific research suggests that we did evolve from apes as unpallitable that is to some folk. look up Australopithecus Anamensis, A Afarensis, A Sediba, A Africanus.
The thing is ... if we evolved from apes, then why are there apes around... should not they have evolved as well... ??
MAN, i Just hate seeing them being bars in a zoo... Its seems so unnatural...
Merriweather: The thing is ... if we evolved from apes, then why are there apes around... should not they have evolved as well... ??
MAN, i Just hate seeing them being bars in a zoo... Its seems so unnatural...
Bit like any gene pool. Some have not swum in the same ones as others.
In Natural Selection in the drier areas, the animals with a white coat were so out of place with the rest of the herd, they usually didn't survive. Unless they met a mate similar and the breed continued. But rarely. Same as the Red Fox would not survive in the Artic or the Himalayas.
Would a white kangaroo survive in Australia? No as it would stand out for any preditor. But does survive quite well in England with the snow (escapees from a private zoo).
Do so love the "free range" zoos where animals have more room to move around.
ObscuritanOPMelbourne, Victoria Australia1,284 posts
Merriweather: The thing is ... if we evolved from apes, then why are there apes around... should not they have evolved as well... ??
MAN, i Just hate seeing them being bars in a zoo... Its seems so unnatural...
Merri, there have been many ape species that died out. They are not "still around." We didn't evolve from the apes you see today (eg chimps, gorillas,) we evolved from a common ancestor about 7 million years ago that probably looked faintly like a chimpanzee. "So why didn't they all become human, why did some go on to become chimpanzees?" I think this is what is meant by the oft-repeated creationist question as posed above. The answer is that the population was split by some divide, a mountain range, river or just long distance. Over time, with no inter-breeding occurring, the two populations started to respond to their particular environment in unique ways leading to subtle changes in size, shape, skills, brain power, etc. The apes that later evolved into humans found themselves in a dry environment with scattered trees, while those who became chimps kept to the shrinking forested areas. There's no law that says you HAVE to become human. The chimps were well-suited to their own environment and lived on: changing a little but not that much.
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What do you think of the theory of evolution by natural selection, do you think it's correct?(Vote Below)
What are your thoughts?
If your opinion is: couldn't give a s***! then, well, think of a nice way to say that.