Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics ( Archived) (15)

Apr 10, 2013 10:34 AM CSTWas Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
thepooka
thepookathepookaNenagh, Tipperary, Ireland3 Threads 1 Polls 20 Posts

Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics(Vote Below)

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What are your feelings around Margaret Thatcher and her influence on world politics
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Apr 10, 2013 11:08 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
sofarsogood74
sofarsogood74sofarsogood74Dublin, Ireland40 Threads 4 Polls 2,711 Posts
thepooka: What are your feelings around Margaret Thatcher and her influence on world politics



Depends where you stand in the political world really. If you're on the right I am sure you will think she was great. If you're on the left I would think not so much.

My opinion on her is not too high because of the way she supported the SA apartheid regime in the 1980's.
The way she supported General Pinochet in Chile even though he was a dictator who tortured and killed thousands of his own people.
The way she supported far right regimes around the world no matter if they were elected by the people or not.
Her handling of the hunger strikes in Northern Ireland was a disaster too.

I think she will be remembered as a leader who did far more damage than good.
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Apr 10, 2013 11:23 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Margaret Thatcher played a pivotal role in the ending of apartheid in spite of herself. She famously declared the African National Congress to be a "terrorist" organisation, but she gave these "terrorists" diplomatic protection. In the mid 1980s the South African government blew up the ANC offices in London and tried to kidnap its members in London, including Thabo Mbeki and Oliver Tambo. She was obliged to provide armed bodyguards for their most senior officials.

A close aide once told me that she opposed apartheid more on the grounds that it was a sin against economic liberalism rather than a crime against humanity. She also was bitterly against sanctions of any sort – they were a crime against free trade. She even went on denouncing them after Britain and the rest of the Commonwealth had imposed a ban on sporting contacts and other marginal sanctions. She boasted that she alone had managed to fight off demands for stronger sanctions.

Advised by her husband, Dennis, who had business interests in South Africa, she felt that anything that damaged wealth creation must be bad for South Africa. She was also a great admirer of Laurens van der Post, the South African writer and traveller later exposed as a fraud, who also opposed sanctions on the country. He introduced her to Mangosuthu Buthelezi, the Zulu leader, who played an ambivalent role in the struggle against apartheid, splitting from the ANC in 1979 and accepting "homeland" status for Kwazulu. His movement, Inkatha, helped the South African police repress ANC rebellion in the townships.

But in spite of her instincts, Thatcher played a pivotal role in southern Africa. As Britain's new prime minister in 1979 she was persuaded by Commonwealth leaders at their meeting in Lusaka, where she famously danced with President Kenneth Kaunda, to try to end the war in Rhodesia – now Zimbabwe. That led to the Lancaster House conference and an election in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe which was won overwhelmingly by someone she despised – Robert Mugabe.

From that she was persuaded to try to deal with apartheid in South Africa. She began by making two trips to other countries in Africa. In 1988 I followed her to Kenya where she was greeted by the president, Daniel arap Moi, and to Nigeria where she was welcomed by the military dictator, Ibrahim Babangida, to whom she sold tanks.

In Kano, during that visit, she was feted by a Durbar by the Emir. The Kano Durbar traditionally ends with a cavalry charge, with the horses rearing up in the front of the Emir and guests, who must greet the riders with a clenched fist salute. At that time the clenched fist was best known as the protest gesture of the Black Power Movement. Thatcher tried to wave but the emir insisted she followed tradition. I caught a glimpse of her appalled face as she looked at her raised and closing hand. She never quite completed the action.

The following year she visited Mugabe in Zimbabwe, where British troops were training Mozambicans to fight off the South African-backed Renamo movement. A mock attack was organised and she sat between Mugabe and Joachim Chissano to observe. The "bushes" right in front of them suddenly sprang to life and started shooting. The noise was deafening and nobody had warned the watchers that tracer bullets fired away somehow look as if they are coming towards you. I saw Mugabe and Chissano duck and some of the officials flung themselves down. Thatcher didn't blink.
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Apr 10, 2013 11:25 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
When Botha stepped down after a stroke in 1989, he was replaced by FW de Klerk, who met Thatcher at Downing Street in June. I was among a group of journalists waiting outside No 10 with the promise that he would give a press conference straight after. We watched him leave then ran up Whitehall to the South African embassy where he had promised to speak. He did not turn up. We were told later that he had been too shocked by Thatcher's vehemence.

Mandela was released on 11 February 1990 (I was at the gates of the jail but to my eternal chagrin I failed to spot him). That evening he made a speech from the balcony of the town hall in Cape Town which was televised, live, world wide. The speech was written by the hard-liners and communists in the ANC and was full of Marxist jargon. "Our resort to the armed struggle in 1960… was a purely defensive action against the violence of apartheid. The factors which necessitated the armed struggle still exist today. We have no option but to continue." Thatcher was appalled. She picked up the telephone to Robin Renwick, the British ambassador in South Africa, and demanded to know why she had ever bothered to battle for Mandela's release if this was the result.

But Mandela felt that at this stage he had to submit himself to party discipline. That was the reason that among the first people he visited after his release was Muammar Gaddafi. And when he came to London, the ANC central committee insisted – against his wishes – that he did not meet Thatcher. After he did finally meet her later that year he thanked her for helping to end apartheid and announced this at a press conference soon after. Senior ANC officials spluttered with rage.

My last meeting with Thatcher was at De Klerk's book launch at Foyles in 1999. I asked her about South Africa and her role. She launched into praise for De Klerk and then for Van der Post and Buthelezi – "a marvellous man" she kept repeating. I asked what she thought about Mandela. "I never met him," she said looking confused. How could anyone meet Mandela and not remember? Now I realise why.

Richard Dowden is the director of the Royal African Society and author of Africa; altered states, ordinary miracles
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Apr 10, 2013 11:40 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
thepooka: What are your feelings around Margaret Thatcher and her influence on world politics


To the older generation it's more of a simple left/right split as to whether she was good or not.

To those of us who grew up after Thatcher the 80's are viewed as the first of three decades of unparalleled decline.
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Apr 10, 2013 11:41 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
galrads
galradsgalradsDublin, Ohio USA2,264 Threads 279 Polls 36,283 Posts
thepooka: What are your feelings around Margaret Thatcher and her influence on world politics


She was the best of bests to ever happen to england but I still don't know why president Reagan allowed her to terrorize and colonize other islands off of South America.... R.I.P. M sad flower
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Apr 13, 2013 6:59 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
bungallow55
bungallow55bungallow55Lakeland, Florida USA238 Threads 10 Polls 3,837 Posts
thepooka: What are your feelings around Margaret Thatcher and her influence on world politics


The best female leader up till now.
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Apr 13, 2013 7:04 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
She represents the end of golden age Capitalism in the West and the beginning of global monetarist economics.

That's what history will remember. In just a few more years her name will be mud to the middle classes just as much as it is to the workers.
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Apr 13, 2013 7:12 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
Apr 13, 2013 7:54 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
Obstinance_Works
Obstinance_WorksObstinance_WorksManchester, Greater Manchester, England UK3 Threads 1 Polls 3,514 Posts
tomcatwarne: Saturday, Apr 13 2013 12PM 1°C 3PM 1°C 5-Day Forecast
Lady Thatcher to be honoured with State funeral, but Palace fears there might not be enough troops to line streets of London


I was all for a lavishly funded public burial of Thatcher. Right up until she died.
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Apr 13, 2013 8:00 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
Obstinance_Works: I was all for a lavishly funded public burial of Thatcher. Right up until she died.



Margaret Thatcher's funeral next week will be of a scale not accorded to a former prime minister since Sir Winston Churchill's state ceremony in
Whether it's £8m or £10m, the estimated costs of Margaret Thatcher's funeral that are being widely reported.
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Apr 13, 2013 8:18 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
rizlaredonline today!
rizlaredonline today!rizlaredNot in Cebu City, Central Visayas Philippines89 Threads 2 Polls 5,588 Posts
I read in the Telegraph that she requested NOT to have a state funeral, and wanted one as basic as possible. All those who are criticising her and her family should point fingers elsewhere.
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Apr 13, 2013 8:22 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
tomcatwarne
tomcatwarnetomcatwarneOcean City, Plumouth, Devon, England UK289 Threads 7 Polls 17,106 Posts
rizlared: I read in the Telegraph that she requested NOT to have a state funeral, and wanted one as basic as possible. All those who are criticising her and her family should point fingers elsewhere.



Yes I read that to.

I think the State wants to honour her, not at her families request, but at the citizens request.
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Apr 13, 2013 8:33 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
bodleing
bodleingbodleingGreater Manchester, England UK238 Threads 8 Polls 13,810 Posts
rizlared: I read in the Telegraph that she requested NOT to have a state funeral, and wanted one as basic as possible. All those who are criticising her and her family should point fingers elsewhere.


For good reasons...half the country wants to mourn her passing whilst the other half wants to celebrate it, a recipe for major disorder I suspect.
Even the BBC are unsure what to do with the record chart show this week. It seems that a recording of 'The Wicked Witch is Dead' has shot up the charts and could well be number one by this weekend. In their wisdom they have decided to just play a few seconds of the song.

As controversial in death as she was in life.

doh
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Apr 22, 2013 11:36 AM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
liorlaramie
liorlaramieliorlaramieCape Town, Western Cape South Africa4 Posts
Nikogas: Are you saying she had a bad influence on the hair and fashion industry? I think there is enough bad hair out there, we need some "good" influences for the Hair Industry. Of course I am speaking from a Stylists view point.
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Apr 22, 2013 12:10 PM CST Was Margret Thatcher good or bad for world politics
liorlaramie
liorlaramieliorlaramieCape Town, Western Cape South Africa4 Posts
I am being facetious. I am saying I do not think her style was a good thing but rather horrible, especially the hair. That was a joke...sorry, my warped sense of humour. I did not like her but I admired her spunk. If u were English you would have a strong view of her, either loved her if you were a conservative or hated her if u were working class and Labour Party
She was a tough old bat. she got her country out of financial problems with her ruthless tactics. I do believe a country should have a safety net for the weak and the poor, but I think the Uk has some how not got it right because u have working class on the dole not being encouraged to be productive. A nanny state is not the answer. It breeds apathy and teen moms slopping around having babies like rabbits with no interest in education or productivity, Layabout louts with entitlement and no sense of responsibility.
If u are interested in the sort of society that Thatcher came from with class struggle and womens enpowerment struggle see `Made In Dagenham`..interesting ,a true story. Then u will understand my love hate relationship with the lady.
But this is probably not of interest to u as an American. I do not know enough about the USA, if u have a safety net. Ours here in South Africa is useless and the rich are getting filthy rich and the poor poorer. I think this is a global problem that needs to be addressed.
But back to the hair... . I would like to know what you do call good hair and bad. I am a clothing designer so into fashion and have a strong opinion there too! That would be interesting to me to hear from a stylist.
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Created: Apr 2013
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