Does welfare promote laziness? ( Archived) (209)

You are a weird character. I'm no bully and I NEVER said anything bad about anyone in this thread so I don't understand your thinking process.

I have plenty of people/friends that I respect and love. I get along with everyone and have not had a issues with anyone but you. I think you have psychological issues and I feel sorry for you.

I have not been tempted to block you and I'm not tempted now either. You are the bully and probably deserve to be blocked but it won't happen. I can easily just ignore you and you don't intimidate me.

I agree.

I don't blame you for using the system for dental care. That is very expensive and could be life threatening.

So your logic is, if you don't say anything bad about someone directly on this thread, its okay to say bad things about people who are not here to defend themselves?

Golly, how brave and noble you are.

Your impression of me is completely wrong. I cannot and will not try to defend myself because you have your mind already made up and you love to pick people's words apart one by one and turn them around.

AlI i want to say to you is that I'm happy you survived your difficult struggles. I admire the fact that you never gave up.

Brave???

I had luck, advantages.

Brave is living knowing life will never change, never get any better.

First I want to say the welfare systems differ from country to country as it does here from state to state and also county to county here. The most important thing I want to say is my heart goes out to you. It could not be an easy decision for you to make because yes we both know there is a stigma attached to welfare. And sadly even those who really need it are painted with the same brush often. In my opinion you are doing what you have to do to save your life You spoke of your pain from your infected teeth but it is not just pain. Bad teeth that are infected is also hurting you in areas of your health you never dreamed of. Did you know if you needed emergency surgery on your heart they would not do this till your teeth are either fixed or pulled. I have actually seen people who ended up dieing because they were not in the welfare system and could not afford the dental work and then boom end up in a public hospital who patches them up enough to send them out the door basically to die. Why do I say basically to die is because you have forms to fill out and all kinds of stuff to get on to welfare and in the mean time ones heart could be a ticking time bomb. I had a friend who never made it back for their surgery. Filling out the forms trying to get the dental work. Be strong you need to have this done.

Yes, I got off income support and started my own business, but it wasn't enough.

I risked starting it because I could get tax credits to supplement my initial small and insecure income. Bloody fantastic, I thought. The more you earn, the less tax credit you get, which means, I thought, I could build up the business until I was free from handouts.

Only it doesn't quite work like that. You get to a point where you need to make a massive jump in income to be totally free. This got me to thinking. If the government wanted people off benefits and handouts, surely the logical thing would be to make it easier to get off them?

This got me to thinking some more. What is the function of keeping people on handouts? If people had a living wage form their employment, they wouldn't need handouts. This means that businesses would have to pay more than the minimum wage, but most people wouldn't be paying a huge amount of tax on a subsistence wage. Y'know, maybe its actually more profitable for government to give handouts, but receive lots of tax from big businesses, than it is for them to receive taxes from a nation of people earning a subsistence wage? Maybe its cheaper for big business to be taxed on their profits than it is to pay a living wage to all its workers?

And all the while all those handouts are being spent in the supermarkets and other big businesses, recycling the money and profits back to themselves and the government.

How do you hide this scam? Blame it on the pawns who have no voice, no power, no resources, no lawyers, no knowledge, no skills, no opportunities, whatever.

Well, I did give up, Chris. After a period of working 20/22 hours a day and still finding it wasn't enough to get me off handouts, I did enough to keep my head above water and I raised my child.

Its only now my daughter and granddaughter have left home that I can start again, battling my way through some sort of progress, rather than stagnation and survival. I knew this time would come, so I bided my time, took the handouts and waited.

Once I'm qualified, maybe I'll be able to afford to support my daughter getting where she wants to be, if she isn't already there. Maybe I'll be able to leave her some kind of inheritance to give her a leg up, her bit of luck that will turn her life around, I don't know.

But what I do know is everyone who lives comfortably has had some kind of luck, or advantage however hard they've worked. They've had a skill, they have some brain power, they've had some health, they've had some knowledge, they've had a job they can get to (ever tried getting around the Welsh Valleys on public transport in time for work? ), they've had familial support, they've had something 'given to them on a plate'.

Its as well to recognise that, before criticising that some people get given something on a plate.

Do you know what would have made a big difference to the amount of handouts I received over the years and the progress I made?

Child maintenance contributions from my daughter's father for half of her expenses.

I lost a long term job last February. I was eligible to claim unemployment benefit and housing benefit but didnt as I had cash in the bank for at least a few months living costs

Bizarrely - and I know this is irrational - after 15 years in the workforce and paying in that time tens of thousands in National Insurance contributions to ensure my right to benefits, I didnt on some level think they were 'for me'.. but more that the system existed to support people who hadnt managed to build up savings in case of emergency.

Also, I was worried that if I had an income from the state, however small, and couldnt see my savings balance reducing I would lack motivation to pass my professional exams and get another job - which, I did.

As it happened I was only out of work for 3 months and have since been working hard to rebuild my emergency savings. I might do the same again. I felt it was motivating, there's nothing like need to push you in a productive direction

What, you didn't want to hear about the reality of living on benefits?

I'm 45 years old and I've yet to grow out of how decadent and luxurious it feels to be able to buy tampons.

How many people take that for granted and then spout about how inadequate others are?

That's brilliant Chris, but you must have had opportunity, skills, knowledge, health...something that was your luck to have as well?

Sorry for not quoting your whole post. I just want you to know that I have read the whole thread and I am so sorry you have had to weather the storms in life you have. I have had difficult times also. And no one should have to give up some of the things you have. My life has not been one of silver spoon either. I do not like the thought of removing ones dignity <---for lack of word, from them just because they are down and out. It saddens me to think of anyone who has to walk for miles for clothing and food. Maybe to just not receive none. Who does not have the proper tools for good hygene. It also makes me glad I live in the county I live in. We try to make sure that all the needs are met even for our poorest. Yes some slide thru the crack in the wall I am sure. That is why even when I cannot afford to sometimes my heart tugs and says to fill up a bag with tooth brushes and etc...and take it down to be distrubt it. I do not tar all with the same brush in life. I know my verbal skills are lacking some and am unsure if I convey it in the written word but I do have compassion and a heart that cries for the less fortunate. That is something no one will ever change about me...because it is what my husband told me one time that made him love me even more