If a tree falls in the forest...... ( Archived) (35)

Nov 13, 2013 12:16 PM CSTIf a tree falls in the forest......
Green_Sleeves
Green_SleevesGreen_SleevesCarlow, Ireland174 Threads 37 Polls 4,812 Posts

If a tree falls in the forest......(Vote Below)

- (To Vote: select an option above, then press this button)
Yes! Of course it does!
31
62%
No! Sound can only exist if someone hears it!
6
12%
Dont care about your shaggin' tree!!!
13
26%
Total Votes
50
....and there's no-one around, does it make a sound?


Well?!!


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laugh
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Nov 13, 2013 12:47 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
baldydude
baldydudebaldydudefermoy, Cork Ireland164 Threads 4,643 Posts
nice vid laugh


why is this up as a poll tho?confused
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Nov 13, 2013 2:03 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1Barcelona, Catalonia Spain65 Threads 44 Polls 5,101 Posts
If two silly ones fall from a branch....laugh

Embedded image from another site


Why the panda bears are doomed to extinction? banana
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Nov 14, 2013 4:43 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
Green_Sleeves: ....and there's no-one around, does it make a sound?Well?!!


Trees exist, forests don't. D'ya get that? A tree is a real thing that exists. A forest is a concept. It's amazing how many people don't undersand concepts and belive them to be real things. How can we think we have been educated when we don't even understand the basics of thinking or reality?

God help us, we couldn't think our way out of a wet paper bad. No wonder we are such dupes.
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Nov 14, 2013 4:56 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
facetowardsfront: Trees exist, forests don't. D'ya get that? A tree is a real thing that exists. A forest is a concept. It's amazing how many people don't undersand concepts and belive them to be real things. How can we think we have been educated when we don't even understand the basics of thinking or reality?

God help us, we couldn't think our way out of a wet paper bad. No wonder we are such dupes.

I understad the concept part, but.. did the tree exist before we observed it?

What do we know about what forms reality? Quantum Physics gives us a lot to ponder about the 'concept of reality' it in its own right.
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Nov 15, 2013 4:57 AM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
facetowardsfront: Trees exist, forests don't. D'ya get that? A tree is a real thing that exists. A forest is a concept.

So sorry I am coming back to this again, apologies, but I have kept pondering this, and I have questions.

The forest is a concept as it is a summery of trees, but is the tree not a summery as well? A crowd is a conecpt then, but is not every body in that crowd made up of billions of cells just the same? How can the tree or the body be real, if we say the forest is not real but just a concept?

This to me is the thinking of entropy, and it leads in my mind to the conclusion that then only the smallest parts, the parts undevidable.. (and oh my.. can time be ultimately devided?) are 'real'.
There is the theory of the ever expanding universe, instead of the imploding one, and if the first should come to pass, this universe will disolve into nothing but the smallest parts drifting almost like desert sand. The only concept left then would be that of a 'beach' for someone looking upon this universe (as obviously none within would be able to look upon it).

Where do we stop 'deviding' to accept something as being 'real' and not a 'concept'?

Honest question, I am sort of lost on that one right at this moment >.<
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Nov 15, 2013 9:30 AM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs: I understad the concept part, but.. did the tree exist before we observed it?

What do we know about what forms reality? Quantum Physics gives us a lot to ponder about the 'concept of reality' it in its own right.

IN the Macro world, quantum physics is not apparent. The tree exists. If none of the trees existed because you cannot observe them, you would get rather short on breath, very swiftly as they produce a chunk of our oxygen.
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Nov 15, 2013 1:34 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
MADDOG69: IN the Macro world, quantum physics is not apparent. The tree exists. If none of the trees existed because you cannot observe them, you would get rather short on breath, very swiftly as they produce a chunk of our oxygen.

Thank you Maddog, I think I can work with that thought process. That makes good sense grin

Sometimes a small nudge is all that's needed to keep my mind from spinning over the edge, phew lol
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Nov 15, 2013 1:50 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs: Thank you Maddog, I think I can work with that thought process. That makes good sense

Sometimes a small nudge is all that's needed to keep my mind from spinning over the edge, phew lol

The whole philosophical spillover about observing and not observing quantum physics things is mumbojumbo though and has got traction in the mass media.

It all boils down to this... to detect something in real life we reach out and touch it. You can feel wood for example? You can see a tree because the photons of light reflecting off it impinge on our retina.

Now in the quantum world to detect an electron for example, you must use something to 'see' it. Photons and other particles themselves are on the same scale as the electron, so they themselves would interfere with the electron itself if we tried to detect it. That's called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The more we detect about 1 particular state of a particle the less certainty we can know it's other properties.

IN the macro world... it's like reaching out to touch a fly to see if it's there, blindfolded..... once we touch him, we know he's there, but he instantly flies away somewhere else. wink He's 'observed' and forever changed because of it.
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Nov 15, 2013 2:07 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Karn1
Karn1Karn1Galway, Ireland11 Threads 1 Polls 252 Posts
Sound waves are made by a vibrating object. The object turns other forms of energy, e.g. electric or kinetic energy into sound waves. This happens when the object vibrates the air molecules around it, which are then transferred as sound. A tuning fork moves back and forth at a specific frequency thus moving the air around it in the same frequency which then reaches our ears as sound waves. So if there are no ears to hear then there are only vibrations!
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Nov 15, 2013 2:08 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
MADDOG69: The whole philosophical spillover about observing and not observing quantum physics things is mumbojumbo though and has got traction in the mass media.

It all boils down to this... to detect something in real life we reach out and touch it. You can feel wood for example? You can see a tree because the photons of light reflecting off it impinge on our retina.

Now in the quantum world to detect an electron for example, you must use something to 'see' it. Photons and other particles themselves are on the same scale as the electron, so they themselves would interfere with the electron itself if we tried to detect it. That's called the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The more we detect about 1 particular state of a particle the less certainty we can know it's other properties.

IN the macro world... it's like reaching out to touch a fly to see if it's there, blindfolded..... once we touch him, we know he's there, but he instantly flies away somewhere else. He's 'observed' and forever changed because of it.

You formulate that great, and again a huge thank you, I can follow that with my mind, but.. what about the 'Matrix theory'? I know a team was working on trying to find ways to prove or disprove possibilities in regards to our reality just being a simulation. If if it would be a simulation, what would that do to the existence of the tree and oxygen?
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Nov 15, 2013 2:09 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Karn1: Sound waves are made by a vibrating object. The object turns other forms of energy, e.g. electric or kinetic energy into sound waves. This happens when the object vibrates the air molecules around it, which are then transferred as sound. A tuning fork moves back and forth at a specific frequency thus moving the air around it in the same frequency which then reaches our ears as sound waves.

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Nov 15, 2013 2:13 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
Karn1: Sound waves are made by a vibrating object. The object turns other forms of energy, e.g. electric or kinetic energy into sound waves. This happens when the object vibrates the air molecules around it, which are then transferred as sound. A tuning fork moves back and forth at a specific frequency thus moving the air around it in the same frequency which then reaches our ears as sound waves. So if there are no ears to hear then there are only vibrations!

Yes, that's how I usually approach the falling tree and noise question too, but I'd have written a novel and everyone would have thrown stones at me again moping It needs a 'receiver' to be classed as sound, I'd say, but one could argue it is sound regardless, as the possibility for it to be acknowledge as sound is there?
Not sure sad
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Nov 15, 2013 2:16 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Karn1
Karn1Karn1Galway, Ireland11 Threads 1 Polls 252 Posts
lazy typist easier to copy and paste and as I already have my degree I don't need to reference any more
MADDOG69: http://www.ask.com/question/what-makes-sound-waves
tongue
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Nov 15, 2013 2:16 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Karn1
Karn1Karn1Galway, Ireland11 Threads 1 Polls 252 Posts
tinyfangs: Yes, that's how I usually approach the falling tree and noise question too, but I'd have written a novel and everyone would have thrown stones at me again It needs a 'receiver' to be classed as sound, I'd say, but one could argue it is sound regardless, as the possibility for it to be acknowledge as sound is there?
Not sure
thumbs up
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Nov 15, 2013 2:22 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs: You formulate that great, and again a huge thank you, I can follow that with my mind, but.. what about the 'Matrix theory'? I know a team was working on trying to find ways to prove or disprove possibilities in regards to our reality just being a simulation. If if it would be a simulation, what would that do to the existence of the tree and oxygen?

What you should be worrying about is how the fly felt. What was the fly thinking? I wonder where is the fly now? Was he sad? Maybe it was a she fly? That's right .. a she fly... flying around... part of the Collective Conciousness..... you should write a poem now about that fly living in our Quantum World.
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Nov 15, 2013 2:24 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
MADDOG69: What you should be worrying about is how the fly felt. What was the fly thinking? I wonder where is the fly now? Was he sad? Maybe it was a she fly? That's right .. a she fly... flying around... part of the Collective Conciousness..... you should write a poem now about that fly living in our Quantum World.

Don't tempt me giggle giggle giggle
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Nov 15, 2013 2:26 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs: Don't tempt me
You could call it "The Quantum She Fly"


bzzzzzz


bzzzzzzzzzzzz

bzzzzzz
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Nov 15, 2013 2:32 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
sexydivabella
sexydivabellasexydivabellaDrogheda, Dublin Ireland44 Threads 4 Polls 5,978 Posts
MADDOG69: Nothing Mr. Husqvarna couldn't sort out in 5 minutes.


ouchy uh oh uh oh uh oh
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Nov 15, 2013 2:33 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Embedded image from another site
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Nov 15, 2013 2:41 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
sexydivabella
sexydivabellasexydivabellaDrogheda, Dublin Ireland44 Threads 4 Polls 5,978 Posts
ahhh Maddog put your massive tool away...it is impressing no one roll eyes
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Nov 15, 2013 4:29 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
WittyandWise: Ah jesus my heart skipped a beat trying to move my cursor quick enough and then



It's one massive tool though!laugh
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Nov 15, 2013 4:35 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
mjpd67
mjpd67mjpd67galway, Galway Ireland181 Threads 5 Polls 6,550 Posts
Karn1: massage music!
would murder one tonight as spike milligan said i feel 2 tents
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Nov 15, 2013 4:52 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
WittyandWise: Or is that what you like to think



That's what I tell everyone!giggle
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Nov 15, 2013 4:56 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
WittyandWise
WittyandWiseWittyandWiseDerry, Donegal Ireland15 Threads 2 Polls 3,364 Posts
snowlynx: That's what I tell everyone!


he he he now that made me laugh,

that explains my recent mail increase, yet they tell me my profile made them laugh mumbling

Of course most mail and say you must be mad craic, now I know why mumbling

laugh
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Nov 15, 2013 5:05 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
WittyandWise: he he he now that made me laugh,

that explains my recent mail increase, yet they tell me my profile made them laugh

Of course most mail and say you must be mad craic, now I know why



Yes that would be it....'Mad for it she is' is what I tell them all when they ask me, all hundred of them.grin
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Nov 15, 2013 5:12 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
Green_Sleeves
Green_SleevesGreen_SleevesCarlow, Ireland174 Threads 37 Polls 4,812 Posts
Who was it that said 'no'? I want to chat to you?! handshake

Surely sounds cant exist if no one is there to hear it, ja?! blah blah
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Nov 15, 2013 5:57 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
tinyfangs: I understad the concept part, but.. did the tree exist before we observed it?

What do we know about what forms reality? Quantum Physics gives us a lot to ponder about the 'concept of reality' it in its own right.


Eastern philosophies consider the observed world to be a projection of our inner world. Without humans to observe there would be no world and no trees to fall. This was laughed at by westerner scientists until the Double-Slit experiment. Then all the major physicists started taking LSD and practicing Transcendental Meditation to try and come up with answers.
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Nov 16, 2013 9:36 AM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
GUZMAN1
GUZMAN1GUZMAN1Barcelona, Catalonia Spain65 Threads 44 Polls 5,101 Posts
Embedded image from another site
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Nov 16, 2013 11:50 AM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
facetowardsfront
facetowardsfrontfacetowardsfrontCork, Ireland42 Threads 1 Polls 2,921 Posts
tinyfangs: I think Eastern philosophies have been ahead on quite a few things while we ended with Descartes



One of our own philosophers from 300 years ago who very much built on the ideas of Descartes was the Bishop of Cloyne, George Berkeley. He went on to have Universities named after him, such was his contribution to mathematics, physics and philosophy.

Berkley argued from a Solipsist perspective that our mind is the only reality and anything outside the mind does not exist. This is very much the same as Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism and other eastern philosophies and Descartes "cogito ergo sum". The observer and the observed are both necessary for something to exist. But as a man of God, like the Eastern folk, he understood our mind is part of the Universal mind and therefore trees do exist and fall, whether we see them or not, because in the mind of God they do.

Strangely enough Berkley was from the same region of the country as Green Sleeves. I wonder is there a genetic link to this question? Or is it all in my mind?
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Nov 16, 2013 12:26 PM CST If a tree falls in the forest......
tinyfangs
tinyfangstinyfangsunder a rock, Leitrim Ireland26 Threads 4 Polls 1,034 Posts
facetowardsfront: One of our own philosophers from 300 years ago who very much built on the ideas of Descartes was the Bishop of Cloyne, George Berkeley. He went on to have Universities named after him, such was his contribution to mathematics, physics and philosophy.

Berkley argued from a Solipsist perspective that our mind is the only reality and anything outside the mind does not exist. This is very much the same as Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism and other eastern philosophies and Descartes "cogito ergo sum". The observer and the observed are both necessary for something to exist. But as a man of God, like the Eastern folk, he understood our mind is part of the Universal mind and therefore trees do exist and fall, whether we see them or not, because in the mind of God they do.

Strangely enough Berkley was from the same region of the country as Green Sleeves. I wonder is there a genetic link to this question? Or is it all in my mind?

I think I just had a devine intervention too, as my electricity went just as I was about to post what I had typed here uh oh so I shall leave a certain part out (even though it was a compliment)

Anyway, I despise Descartes with a vengeance, which is of course rationally very wrong of me, as he has put out a lot of interesting thoughts, but as a man who as far as I am aware nailed animals on boards and cut them open alive, he somehow fails to gain my favour, no matter how he justified those actions.

What you outlined above I can follow, even though I am a creature mainly understanding the world through 'feeling' it, and that can at times make it hard for me to comprehend some philosophical material (turns to sheet music in my mind). Thank you for putting it into words that make sense to me.
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Message #318

Stats for this Poll

50 Votes
3,610 Views
35 Comments
by Green_Sleeves (37 Polls)
Created: Nov 2013
Last Viewed: Mar 27
Last Commented: Nov 2013
Last Voted: Jul 2017

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