Is removing Christopher Columbus statues a good thing or bad thing?

Good thing, he's fake news, and possibly started the transatlantic slave trade.
16%
7 Votes
Bad thing, it's a bad thing, although he never set foot on the North American Continent.
63%
27 Votes
Just send all his statues to Spain.
21%
9 Votes
43 Total Votes
A little more about Mr. Christopher Columbus....

On his second voyage in 1493, he was equipped with seventeen heavily armed ships (and attack dogs) and 1,200 to 1,500 men. After arriving back on the island of Hispaniola , the subjugation and extermination of the Arawak people began with a vengeance.

Under Columbus's leadership, the Arawaks were forced under the encomienda system (a system of forced labor that sidestepped the word "slavery") to mine for gold and produce cotton. When gold was not found, the irate Columbus oversaw the hunting of Indians for sport and dog food. Women and girls as young as nine or 10 were used as sex slaves for the Spanish. So many Indians died under the encomienda slave system that Indians from neighboring Caribbean islands were imported, and eventually from Africa. After Columbus's first kidnapping of Indians, he is believed to have sent as many as 5,000 Indian slaves across the Atlantic, more than any other individual.

Estimates for the pre-Columbus population of Hispaniola range between 1.1 million and 8 million Arawaks. By 1542 Las Casas recorded fewer than 200, and by 1555 they were all gone. Hence, the uncensored legacy of Columbus is not only the beginning of the transatlantic slave trade, but the first recorded instance of full scale genocide of an indigenous people.

Columbus never set foot on the North American continent.

Comments (69)

nonsmoker
A good thing,
Those pantaloons so don't go with his tights scold

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Conrad73
It's an attempt to strip America of it's heritage and history in order to make it possible to replace it's form of government with a very old New World order..

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GUZMAN1
He was italian, for sure.


laugh

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Conrad73
sailing for Isabella I Queen of Castile!laugh

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galrads
Let's see, on his second voyage he landed landed where? Hispaniola.

He reduced the local population there from ~1.2 million to ~200k in ~3 years, put 9-10 year old girls in sex slavery and shipped dads and mom's Aeawacks back to Spain. He was brutal, personally feeding some of the locals to his dogs.


And he couldn't write Italian...


wave

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GUZMAN1



Well, send his statues to Spain. Here we don't want to remember the ugly side of colonisation.

Never heard anything about child sex slavery, but it's true that there were arawak slaves, and african slaves after most of the former population died of smallpox and other imported diseases.

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GUZMAN1


Well, she won the final battle against the muslims in Spain, she expelled them along with the Jews, and also what you say.

What a woman!

uh oh

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epirb
don't know much about all those Indians dying but you're jumping the gun tearing down Columbus's statue . They have to lose a close election to George Custer the xviii first .
PS . you might want to carve a likeness of Obama into mount Rushmore or the Taliban antifa might blow up the current sculptures .

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jac_the_gripper
Why do you have these statues in the US?

What is the cultural response to them?

We have Nelson's column here in the UK. I doubt many people know why, or who he was. The cultural response is amusement that there is a great big knob in the middle of Trafalgar Square.

I've been thinking about the responses on the General Lee thread. I agree with the Nazi book-burning response; I also agree with Germany not having reminders of, or glorification of Hitler tributes. The camps turned into museums are a better reminder and educator.

I believe a similar museum has been formed of the prison Nelson Mandela was held in, in South Africa. Visitor's entry tickets say 'black', or 'white' - visitors experience the museum from the perspective of their ticket colour, allocated by chance.

I've been trying to imagine what it would be like if a statue of Hitler was erected outside my place of work, for example. I think it would depend upon why and the cultural response.

If it was for purposes of glorification, or it became a symbol of anti-Semitism, I think I would feel undermined, dehumanised, nervous, frustrated, many negative things. I think I'd want to see it destroyed,despite my leanings towards not burning books, or banning music, even if it is Mein Kampf, or Wagner.

Read Mein Kampf and it becomes powerless, the ramblings of an illogical and banal mind. Warner is just music.

A statue, though. A statue can be powerful, in many ways. It can be ridiculed like our over-sized willy, it can be a focus of cultural norm, or cultural movement, for good, or for bad.

The responses to these threads are predominantly from white men arguing the toss over history, His Story. I would have liked to have heard some opinions from other perspectives, from Black Americans, indigenous Americans, some social and emotional explorations.

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jac_the_gripper
Why do you have these statues in the US?

What is the cultural response to them?

We have Nelson's column here in the UK. I doubt many people know why, or who he was. The cultural response is amusement that there is a great big knob in the middle of Trafalgar Square.

I've been thinking about the responses on the General Lee thread. I agree with the Nazi book-burning response; I also agree with Germany not having reminders of, or glorification of Hitler tributes. The camps turned into museums are a better reminder and educator.

I believe a similar museum has been formed of the prison Nelson Mandela was held in, in South Africa. Visitor's entry tickets say 'black', or 'white' - visitors experience the museum from the perspective of their ticket colour, allocated by chance.

I've been trying to imagine what it would be like if a statue of Hitler was erected outside my place of work, for example. I think it would depend upon why and the cultural response.

If it was for purposes of glorification, or it became a symbol of anti-Semitism, I think I would feel undermined, dehumanised, nervous, frustrated, many negative things. I think I'd want to see it destroyed,despite my leanings towards not burning books, or banning music, even if it is Mein Kampf, or Wagner.

Read Mein Kampf and it becomes powerless, the ramblings of an illogical and banal mind. Warner is just music.

A statue, though. A statue can be powerful, in many ways. It can be ridiculed like our over-sized willy, it can be a focus of cultural norm, or cultural movement, for good, or for bad.

The responses to these threads are predominantly from white men arguing the toss over history, His Story. I would have liked to have heard some opinions from other perspectives, from Black Americans, indigenous Americans, some social and emotional explorations.

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nonsmoker
Summed up nice Jac wink

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jac_the_gripper
A bit lengthy, ne?

And posted twice.

I'm grappling with this one Non, okay? laugh

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galrads
Great narative. I need to let my little league brain soak that narrative in a bit...


wave

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stephenbadger
The first recorded successful genocide was the original native "Romanian" people by the Roman Empire, employing a new total conquest strategy.
Then Genghis Khan ordered numerous genocides.
Many american tribes, including the Arawaks are gone for ever.
The Tasmanian Aboriginal & Chatham Islands Moriori are technically extinct ...mixed blood descendants from interbreeding with survivors or slaves don't count in science.
Modern humans outside of Central/Southern Africa are all cultural/racial/ethnic mixtures, with 1% to 2% neanderthal genetic dna mixed in OR Melanesians with up to 50% neanderthal & denisovan genetic dna mixed in.
.......with the exception of the pure Tasmanian & Australian Aboriginal who abstained from inter-breeding for unknown reasons
violin

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nonsmoker


You grappling with powerful erections wink
Now there's an Image laugh bouquet

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galrads


In fourteen-hundred and ninety-two Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue..........

According to several websites there are over 400 memorial statues of Christopher worldwide.

Why does everyone memorialize him? I believe the most popular answer is: 'The Age of Discovery had begun and was attributed to Mr. Columbus.. Columbus became a metaphor for discovery, adventure, bravery, daring and perseverance. He set into motion a series of historical events that resulted in an entirely new world.'

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Shore2please

Right on target...soon the liberals and crazies overturning statutes will want to remove Washington and Lincoln from currency...most of them don't even understand the history related to these men and how American became beter for slaves because of them!

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jac_the_gripper
You all make good points, gentlemen.

grin

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Mapmaker
You shouldnt erase history, most history is made up anyway, Think how your history will look in the future.

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Keep referring to them as Indians that's the most respectful term. A reminder that white people were stupid enough to believe they'd landed in India.

Instead of statues why not focus issues today which matter. The Republic of Congo one of the richest nations in the world in raw materials but the place is a mess, central government doesn't work everything is run by tribal warlords in bed with big business. It's not only a catastrophe in the world today it is a picture of the future under Trump.

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epirb
why should the world and any one worry about the Congo , the kicked out the whites and now can go hang .

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jac_the_gripper
If history is largely made up, what is the issue with rewriting it?

If history is recorded in the context of the time it was recorded, what is the issue with recording it in the context of a new clime?

Hitler's book-burning has become a part of his-story. What was actually lost post event? A loss at the time, for sure, but what was lost in his-story?

Wagner has been banned, but Wagner still exists.

What will actually be lost if the statues are removed, or destroyed?

What might be gained?

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Mapmaker
I say made up, but in reality some countries never teach any world history, Its obvious that some make up a more glorified version of their history, omitting bad stuff, over glorifying good stuff.

People should know and be taught all sides of history and in my opinion why destroy statues, why re write history, learn from it, should we pull down Nelson's column if it upsets a young french person?...

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Conrad73
who banned Wagner?confused

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jac_the_gripper
I suspect the issue in the US is not about upsetting one, young black American.

I suspect the issue is something to do with the glorification of oppression, murder (nay genocide), torture and the continuing negative discrimination against black and indigenous Americans.

If these icons of oppression are then a focus for political aggression, rather than being recognised for their whole story, there's a problem.

If American culture recognised certain people's roles in atrocities, having statues of them may be a reminder of that and not a problem.

The thing is, you Americans generally don't seem to have the same propensity for cultural shame and embarrassment which we have on this side of the pond. We have an embarrassing amount of misplaced pomp and ceremony, but you Americans really take the biscuit, or cookie perhaps.

We laugh at Nelson's winky; we generally feel shame about the arrogance of our history of colonialism. I'm hoping as time goes by that we begin to realise that our cries of 'lest we forget' relies upon us understanding what we're supposed to be remembering in the first place - and it ain't the glorification of savage war and death.

It really is time to move on.

Knowing and understanding our past is part of that, but if the US can't move on with phallic symbols erect, then the US needs big pants until the US understands it can't f*ck everybody else willy nilly.

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Mapmaker
Well said Ms Gripper....well said.

It wont be long before someone is offended by Non Coloured Disney Characters and they all get removed to satisfy someone who feels entitlement and lives in a safe space.

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Conrad73
only a Matter of time!
They are already after poor Ronald!

uh oh wow

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jac_the_gripper
My granddaughter has a Disney Princess book.

There is one brown skinned Disney Princess on the front cover, tucked away in the corner of the group.

I don't think you have to worry about a take-over just yet, although of course, it is a slippery slope.

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mykingdomforanam
Statues of Columbus are revisionist history.

Most people know he didn't discover America; and the people who think he did are ignoranat, and illiterate.

The history we learn in schools is just a lie.

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mykingdomforanam
Columbus was lost, when the native Americans discovered him.

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