Covid Question - Masks. ( Archived) (83)

You're misrepresenting the information, confusing 'cause' with 'mechanism'.

People do not magically drop dead from picking up the virus.

The virus causes disease.

If I have cystic fibrosis, become infected with covid, develop respiratory disease and die, covid is the cause of death, respiratory disease the mechanism.

The cystic fibrosis will have left me more vulnerable to dying from disease caused by covid infection, but without the covid infection I'd still be alive at this point in time.

Cystic fibrosis is not the cause of death.

Everyone who dies as a result of covid will have a disease mechanism - respiratory disease, organ failure, blood clots, etc. That does not mean a death caused by covid should be registered according to the mechanism alone if covid set off the train of catastrophic health events.

The single major mechanism of death in cancer patients is infection and infection is a contributory factor in the majority of cancer deaths. We don't pretend those infections had nothing to do with the cancer, nor that cancer doesn't exist.

'Flu season peaks between December and February in the UK. It can begin in October and run until May.

The last 'flu season in the UK officially ran from 1st October 2019 to 4th April 2020; the first covid infection was recorded in late January.

Given the pandemic largely missed the last 'flu season, a whole year's data with respect to deaths will give a more accurate picture of the increased deaths due to covid.

However, lockdowns, self-isolating, quarantining, unemployment, social distancing, masks and hand washing/increased hygiene will likely effect the transmission of 'flu in the coming season as well as covid.

To suggest that an absence of 'flu deaths largely out of 'flu season accounts for the covid deaths which are really 'flu, and without including the upcoming 'flu season beginning in 2020 is a leap of logic.

I think there are perhaps a number of things going on and I have a few suggestions.

As above, some may refute the cause of death. Your extreme example may not be that extreme - what if someone has a catastrophic event due to covid infection whilst driving? I've heard many reports saying hospital patients, I think particularly young people, can be fine one minute and then suddenly become critical. Might that sort of scenario be contested in court?

There have been other suggestions that healthcare gains extra funding for each covid related death. That doesn't necessarily mean obviously unrelated deaths are being recorded fraudulently, but perhaps like Mendel's peas there is an incentive to record unclear cases as definitely being covid related.

How much is the 'person shot in the head recorded as a covid death' scenario misinformation, propaganda, or 'Chinese whispers'? Are genuine fraudulent claims being blown out of proportion, like the insignificant historical incidence of voter fraud being used to suppress voting by mail in the US?

Here in the UK about 5,000 cases were taken off our covid death toll with the introduction of new guidelines: people have to die within 28 days of a positive test for covid to cited on the death certificate. Given the growing information about us long haulers, not to mention the people who hold on in ICU for months, is it possible that covid related deaths are under recorded? How about those who die at home without ever having had a test?

I was ill in April, I contacted the NHS online and followed the instructions according to the symptoms I had. I have no doubt that I had covid, the instructions I followed were as if I had covid, but I have not seen a healthcare professional and I have not been tested. My illness, like so many other people's, won't be recorded in the statistics as a result.

I suspect that it's possible that some deaths are recorded as covid related when they are not, some are not recorded as covid related when they are, they may cancel each other out, or there may be a skew in one direction. This could be due to the novelty of the virus, pandemic conditions and muddling our way through.

However, given Trump's attitude of 'testing makes me look bad', China's government possibly not wanting to 'lose face' and a general tendency of leaders/governments wanting to retain power, my money is on under, rather than over reporting.

Coronavirus has killed 122 times more people than the flu already this year, new figures show.


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There are clear causes of death and there are less clear. But we have a very simple measure, though: excess mortality. There are expected death rates (depend on demographic structure) and there are observed death rates. Sweden (and a lot of other countries) has observed excess all-cause mortality under spring months. Now there's a slight deficit mortality. The logical conclusion: a lot of people died too early.