Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already? (69)

May 7, 2022 12:09 PM CSTHealthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?

Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?(Vote Below)

- (To Vote: select an option above, then press this button)
I already follow a vegan / plant-based diet.
40%
4 Votes
I am working on it, for health reasons.
10%
1 Votes
I am working on it, for ecological reasons.
0%
0 Votes
I am working on it, for ethical reasons.
0%
0 Votes
I am working on it, for all reasons.
20%
2 Votes
Not yet, but I would change to it with the right partner.
0%
0 Votes
No, because I think a healthy vegan diet can not taste good (FYI wrong, it can replicate all meat and fish tastes).
20%
2 Votes
No, because "it's too difficult" (FYI wrong, it just needs the right willpower and support).
0%
0 Votes
No, because "it's toxic" (FYI wrong, the healthiest and longest living people follow it).
0%
0 Votes
No, because my friend / family / co-workers / ... would think I'm weird / I don't want to feel excluded.
10%
1 Votes
10 Total Votes
(also see the discussion thread I posted: )

A lot of people think "it's just another diet" - mainly because of that's how it is described as, in news media, forums, how people talk about it.

And yes, initially it is / might seem like it. I used to think "it's a hippie think" and "they are tree huggers"... which comes again from the media - or at least used to, now it's all all about "impossible burger" and "beyond meat"... funny thing, those are always sold out at grocery stores, when they have been fully stocked a few days ago, so it's not like they don't get the supply.

Anyone at least interested, watch "vegan cooking", "plant-based cooking" or "vegan food tasting" videos on YouTube, which makes it easier to transition.

I'm 5 years plant-based now, mostly whole-foods, which is the healthiest plant-based / vegan diet, meaning cooking meals from actual vegetables and fruits, rather then buying pre-made meals in stores.
May 7, 2022 12:11 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
BTW those who haven't started yet, but have thought about it / are interested in it, should select one of the "working on it".
May 7, 2022 12:18 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
Didi7online now!
Didi7online now!Didi7COUVA, Couva-Tabaquite-Talparo Trinidad and Tobago23 Threads 13 Polls 292 Posts
Whilst I respect your opinion on this matter, I reserve the right to decide what I eat. I don't consume a lot of meats and fish, but prefer to have my own options about what to consume (whether plant and or animal-based) - whenever I feel like it. smile wine
May 7, 2022 12:31 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
eating a plant only diet for a an animal aka humans are omnivores is not healthy. plus being a vegan is hypocritical.
May 7, 2022 1:07 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
That's an interesting set of choices you have listed in your poll.

For example, you propose reasons why people might be working towards a vegan/plant-based diet, but aren't interested in the reasons for those who who already follow one.

You suggest some may not contemplate a vegan/plant-based diet due to peer pressure and not wanting to feel outside of group belonging, but don't ask if those with a different diet from their peers do feel rejected.

I think one of the biggest issues is that diet is mixed up with identity and people often view diet as having rules that must be strictly followed to have that authentic identity. Am I 'a vegan', a person who eats vegan food, or a person who lives a vegan lifestyle? What is the difference between a vegan and a plant-based diet?

Do we need to hold people to such high standards that those who can't afford an unwaxed, organic, locally sourced lemon and settle for a cheap, supermarket waxed version can't be an authentic member of the gang?

My plant-based journey started at the age of five, although I had no idea at the time. My lifestyle and views are still evolving 50 years later. I'm not a purist and I can't afford to be: I make compromises, like re-using/recycling silk, wool, leather and other animal-based materials; I'm dabbling with growing a few foods, but I'm not expecting that to achieve self-sufficiency any time soon, if ever.

Like yourself, I mostly prepare foods from fresh vegetable matter, but I'm still working on making my own condiments like mayonaise, plant-based butter, tabasco and Worcestershire sauce. I'm still working on reducing, re-using and recycling and my impact upon the environment, but I still have to live within what 'civilisation' has become in order to survive.

I certainly don't feel my lifestyle choices are a chore, or that I'm denying myself anything. Plant-based food tastes nicer and I enjoy my progress.
May 7, 2022 1:14 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
lonelytiger68: eating a plant only diet for a an animal aka humans are omnivores is not healthy. plus being a vegan is hypocritical.
NOTE: This is a response based on facts to rectify this misinformation, I will not discuss this:

You raised two completely different reasons why you are against a vegan / plant-based diet:

1. "it is unhealthy for humans, because they are omnivores" - this is a general misconception spread by various media outlets - online, print, tv, ... and usually the animal agriculture industry or pharmaceutical industry is behind this (this has been proven / exposed many times over).

Thus, this claim that humans are omnivores, is scientifically wrong - or rather, not exact; we are opportunistic omnivores, meaning, we can consume animal flesh and blood, and animal secretions (milks, eggs), which humans have done millions of years ago, but only for survival reasons trying to meet their caloric deficit and thus not starve - meaning, those humans (again, before animal agriculture) were forced to supplement their diet with small animals mostly - mice and rats, rabbits, ... - even insect larvae and grown insects. Only after humans were able to make and then used longer weapons such as spears, they were going after medium and then large animals. This has been proven through analysis of fossils from the teeth of people throughout that era.

Humans eventually developed "husbandry" for animals, which then eventually turned into animal agriculture and factory farming, and in combination with developing trading and the invention of the wheel and logistics, this created an abundance of access to animal meat and animal secretions. Followed then by factory farming, but even before that, people started developing diseases that were non-existent before their start of animal exploitation: becoming overweight, even obese, diabetes, atherosclerosis leading to heart attacks and strokes, increased speed of aging (hair loss, getting gray hair), dementia and Alzheimer's, among other neurological diseases.

2. "being a vegan is hypocritical" - you are talking about Veganism, not "vegan eating", which is another misconception and the two are completely separate subjects. And there is nothing hypocritical about "being (a) Vegan" unless you claim to be and then kill sentient beings purposely. Being vegan for ethical reasons means following Veganism, which is defined by "the vegan society" and is "the reduction of animal suffering" and includes humans (human animals) too. But again, that is a completely separate topic from diet / health, but it goes to show that people like to use it to muddle the truth and as an excuse to spread hatred and misinformation against Vegans, Veganism and vegan diets / eating plant-based.

Therefore, these two topics - "is it / it is not healthy" and ethical aspects of vegan dieting, do not require any further answers and discussion. If there are any questions about a plant-based diet, those are valid to be asked.
May 7, 2022 1:14 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin
blathinblathinGlasgow, Central, Scotland UK1 Threads 4,943 Posts
Didi7: Whilst I respect your opinion on this matter, I reserve the right to decide what I eat. I don't consume a lot of meats and fish, but prefer to have my own options about what to consume (whether plant and or animal-based) - whenever I feel like it.
He wasn't telling you what to eat ...doh
May 7, 2022 1:25 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin
blathinblathinGlasgow, Central, Scotland UK1 Threads 4,943 Posts
lonelytiger68: eating a plant only diet for a an animal aka humans are omnivores is not healthy. plus being a vegan is hypocritical.
You should read the research on the differing effects eating vegetables and eathing meats have on your arteriies etc....loads of stuff online...

Where did you get the notion it's not healthy to not eat meat? There are hardly any nutrients in meat except protien, so if you were to live on meat alone you'd soon find yourself unwell...the same can't be said of vegetables though..you could live on them alone and be very healthy...as many athletes are testimony to.

We can eat meat, but we're not designed to eat it in the vast quantities westerners eat every day..A large steak in the US would be as much as a family in China would use in a week...mind you that's changing the Chinese are now beginning to eat a lot more dairy and meat and the effects are beginning to show....

If meat eating was so good for us then why are so many grossly obese people (many of which are American who eat vast quantities of meat) so overweight but yet so undernourished and so lacking in nutrients?

Because they dont eat enough , if any, vegetables, salads etc etc...
May 7, 2022 1:27 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
lonelytiger68: eating a plant only diet for a an animal aka humans are omnivores is not healthy. plus being a vegan is hypocritical.
What do you think 'a vegan' is?

Why do think being 'a vegan' is hypocritical?

Why do you think a plant only diet for omnivorous humans is unhealthy?
May 7, 2022 1:38 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
Didi7: Whilst I respect your opinion on this matter, I reserve the right to decide what I eat.
Yes, everyone does, that goes without saying and there there was no need for you to say that - but people like to say it nevertheless because of feeling bad about their thoughts (subconsciously) and thus feel because of their habits (that is called "cognitive dissonance"). There some YT vids that explain that, if you are interested in gaining an insight of why you were compelled to say and think that way. But this has nothing to do with the diet itself; I have provided this bit of insight for educational reasons and I will not further discuss / explain it, as that would be off-topic.

Didi7: I don't consume a lot of meats and fish, but prefer to have my own options about what to consume (whether plant and or animal-based) - whenever I feel like it.
You are justifying your ethics here, and has nothing to do with the health or diet aspect; also as a note, a "moderation diet" never works long-term (for health reasons, such as losing weight), that is the scientific consensus. Logically, it has been compared to "I'm only smoking a little bit" or "I'm only doing drugs a little bit" or "I'm only a little bit of an alcoholic".

Ethnically speaking it also creates a lot of logical holes - but that'd be off-topic to talk about that here, so again, I will not discuss that further, there are YT vids and other online sources for that.
May 7, 2022 1:38 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
blathin: You should read the research on the differing effects eating vegetables and eathing meats have on your arteriies etc....loads of stuff online...

Where did you get the notion it's not healthy to not eat meat? There are hardly any nutrients in meat except protien, so if you were to live on meat alone you'd soon find yourself unwell...the same can't be said of vegetables though..you could live on them alone and be very healthy...as many athletes are testimony to.

We can eat meat, but we're not designed to eat it in the vast quantities westerners eat every day..A large steak in the US would be as much as a family in China would use in a week...mind you that's changing the Chinese are now beginning to eat a lot more dairy and meat and the effects are beginning to show....

If meat eating was so good for us then why are so many grossly obese people (many of which are American who eat vast quantities of meat) so overweight but yet so undernourished and so lacking in nutrients?

Because they dont eat enough , if any, vegetables, salads etc etc...
Steady on, Blathin. We're in danger of finding some common ground.

No need for the fat-shaming, mind. It's not only unethical, it's not necessarily true: some thin people eat meat and eating a plant-based diet doesn't guarantee thinness.
May 7, 2022 1:50 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper: That's an interesting set of choices you have listed in your poll.

For example, you propose reasons why people might be working towards a vegan/plant-based diet, but aren't interested in the reasons for those who who already follow one.

You suggest some may not contemplate a vegan/plant-based diet due to peer pressure and not wanting to feel outside of group belonging, but don't ask if those with a different diet from their peers do feel rejected.

I think one of the biggest issues is that diet is mixed up with identity and people often view diet as having rules that must be strictly followed to have that authentic identity. Am I 'a vegan', a person who eats vegan food, or a person who lives a vegan lifestyle? What is the difference between a vegan and a plant-based diet?

Do we need to hold people to such high standards that those who can't afford an unwaxed, organic, locally sourced lemon and settle for a cheap, supermarket waxed version can't be an authentic member of the gang?
Those are all excellent points and questions. I think further polls to see what people think about those would be good, and to educate those who are confused or lacking knowledge. Maybe we can coordinate such polls, so that we can avoid redundancy, which might make people not wanting to vote (I sure don't want to spend time voting for similar / same).

PS. I'd have added more options, but it did not allow me to, so I decided for those questions.

jac_the_gripper: My plant-based journey started at the age of five, although I had no idea at the time. My lifestyle and views are still evolving 50 years later. I'm not a purist and I can't afford to be: I make compromises, like re-using/recycling silk, wool, leather and other animal-based materials; I'm dabbling with growing a few foods, but I'm not expecting that to achieve self-sufficiency any time soon, if ever.

Like yourself, I mostly prepare foods from fresh vegetable matter, but I'm still working on making my own condiments like mayonaise, plant-based butter, tabasco and Worcestershire sauce. I'm still working on reducing, re-using and recycling and my impact upon the environment, but I still have to live within what 'civilisation' has become in order to survive.

I certainly don't feel my lifestyle choices are a chore, or that I'm denying myself anything. Plant-based food tastes nicer and I enjoy my progress.
Very well said and written, I totally agree.
May 7, 2022 1:53 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper: What do you think 'a vegan' is?

Why do think being 'a vegan' is hypocritical?

Why do you think a plant only diet for omnivorous humans is unhealthy?
I think it's better, in those instances where it's obvious a person is confused - or has ulterior motives / purposely spreads misinformation - to just supply education, rather than ask questions to possibly feed that person's agenda or it escalating into a pointless "discussion" / argument.

I already provided answers, so I recommend let's leave it by that.
May 7, 2022 1:56 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
marksapio: Yes, everyone does, that goes without saying and there there was no need for you to say that - but people like to say it nevertheless because of feeling bad about their thoughts (subconsciously) and thus feel because of their habits (that is called "cognitive dissonance"). There some YT vids that explain that, if you are interested in gaining an insight of why you were compelled to say and think that way. But this has nothing to do with the diet itself; I have provided this bit of insight for educational reasons and I will not further discuss / explain it, as that would be off-topic.

You are justifying your ethics here, and has nothing to do with the health or diet aspect; also as a note, a "moderation diet" never works long-term (for health reasons, such as losing weight), that is the scientific consensus. Logically, it has been compared to "I'm only smoking a little bit" or "I'm only doing drugs a little bit" or "I'm only a little bit of an alcoholic".

Ethnically speaking it also creates a lot of logical holes - but that'd be off-topic to talk about that here, so again, I will not discuss that further, there are YT vids and other online sources for that.
Why do you get to choose what someone else is thinking, or feeling?

Perhaps it's the self-righteousness of the purist that puts people off.

Ideally, plant-based food would be appealing enough that people increase their intake because it's pleasurable. That's how it will be self-sustaining and contribute to the sustainable planet paradigm. Meat-eater shaming is as dysfunctional as any other group shaming.

Why do you have a problem with discussing issues related to the thread you have created? Was it your intention to create a self-defeating thread on this subject?
May 7, 2022 2:05 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
marksapio: Those are all excellent points and questions. I think further polls to see what people think about those would be good, and to educate those who are confused or lacking knowledge. Maybe we can coordinate such polls, so that we can avoid redundancy, which might make people not wanting to vote (I sure don't want to spend time voting for similar / same).

PS. I'd have added more options, but it did not allow me to, so I decided for those questions.
So this is a chaotic poll where no one is allowed to discuss anything, have their own thoughts, feelings, or opinions and where no one can ask, or answer questions.
May 7, 2022 2:15 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper: Why do you get to choose what someone else is thinking, or feeling?
I don't, I provided education in the insight why one would make comments that are not required or even off-topic. It's a poll, after all.

jac_the_gripper: Perhaps it's the self-righteousness of the purist that puts people off.
That is how it is often seen by those who have an issue with logic and science.

jac_the_gripper: Ideally, plant-based food would be appealing enough that people increase their intake because it's pleasurable. That's how it will be self-sustaining and contribute to the sustainable planet paradigm. Meat-eater shaming is as dysfunctional as any other group shaming.
"Shaming" as a purposely used action for any reason is pointless. Rather, the focus I use and has shown to be the correct path forward, is providing insight through education and scientific proof (proven logic).

jac_the_gripper: Why do you have a problem with discussing issues related to the thread you have created?
A discussion is useful if participating parties are willing to "have an open mind" AKA are willing to be proven wrong based on supplying proven facts (facts based on scientific consensus AKA approved by peer review), or in case those parties do not have those facts known and want to engage in fact finding together.

Discussions turn into arguments, the latter which are always pointless, if one's pride and bias prevents education based on factual truth - and that is what I am not interested in and I made clear I will avoid.

But I do welcome properly phrased questions that are on-topic, in this case, diet related and its related aspects of health and nutrition; the ethical/psychological and ecological aspects are not part of the OP / poll.
May 7, 2022 2:17 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper: So this is a chaotic poll where no one is allowed to discuss anything, have their own thoughts, feelings, or opinions and where no one can ask, or answer questions.
That is an incorrect assumption of yours, see my answer below.
May 7, 2022 2:17 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin
blathinblathinGlasgow, Central, Scotland UK1 Threads 4,943 Posts
jac_the_gripper: Steady on, Blathin. We're in danger of finding some common ground.

No need for the fat-shaming, mind. It's not only unethical, it's not necessarily true: some thin people eat meat and eating a plant-based diet doesn't guarantee thinness.


What I said was:

"If meat eating was so good for us then why are so many grossly obese people (many of which are American who eat vast quantities of meat) so overweight but yet so undernourished and so lacking in nutrients?

Because they dont eat enough , if any, vegetables, salads etc etc..."

That is NOT fat shaming. That is what's called asking a question. So if you think that's fat shaming then you're accusing every scientist who's ever done or is doing research into the same question offat shaming as well....

And it's people like you who kill the pursuit of truth, knowledge and inquiry....with your stupid little "oh your fat shaming" nonsense. Grow up and get over yoruself jac. People want answers and to get those answers questions need to be asked...Enough people with your attitude will mean no one can ever ask a question again and that's it....end of answers....end of discovery...end of solutions to problems...

is that the kind of world you want to live in eh?

The only thing I'm guilty of in that paragraph is asking a question that you chose to take offence at....that's your problem, not mine..
May 7, 2022 2:31 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper: ...some thin people eat meat and eating a plant-based diet doesn't guarantee thinness.
Your statement falls into one / some of the "logical fallacies" - for a list:


Yes, lots of thin people consume animal meat - I know that just too well, I have always been thin (in fact, I have been underweight) while eating lots of meat, the majority of my diet in fact. After I switched to a healthy plant-based diet, I gained weight, healthily (some fat, mostly muscle), without going to the gym.

Consuming a plant-based diet does not guarantee thinness - this is true, because nothing is guaranteed ever when generalized. However, when being specific, a healthy(!) plant-based diet will in almost all cases guarantee for one to achieve and sustain a healthy weight (not "thinness", that is undefined). And again, strictly speaking, even then it's "in almost all cases" and not "always" because of medical reasons that might be impossible or seemingly impossible to achieve. Both statements have been scientifically proven on a medical level (lab tested and peer reviewed), there are YT channels to go into those in detail, also nutritionfacts.org is a good source.

Again, it's important to be specific and factual, AKA not to "muddle the waters" with broad claims and statements that seem logical at first, but have a lot of logical holes in them and other logical issues. It's best to evaluate one's statements with the list of logical fallacies (see link I provided) to help understand if a statement or argument applies and thus should not be posted.
May 7, 2022 2:37 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin: What I said was:

"If meat eating was so good for us then why are so many grossly obese people (many of which are American who eat vast quantities of meat) so overweight but yet so undernourished and so lacking in nutrients?

Because they dont eat enough , if any, vegetables, salads etc etc..."

That is NOT fat shaming. That is what's called asking a question. So if you think that's fat shaming then you're accusing every scientist who's ever done or is doing research into the same question offat shaming as well....

And it's people like you who kill the pursuit of truth, knowledge and inquiry....with your stupid little "oh your fat shaming" nonsense. Grow up and get over yoruself jac. People want answers and to get those answers questions need to be asked...Enough people with your attitude will mean no one can ever ask a question again and that's it....end of answers....end of discovery...end of solutions to problems...

is that the kind of world you want to live in eh?

The only thing I'm guilty of in that paragraph is asking a question that you chose to take offence at....that's your problem, not mine..
Points well made, but let's not let this grow into an argument. Asking an honest (not underhanded) question is ok. Making statements that don't fall with any of the "logical fallacies" is ok too, ideally backed up with a reference - a link to the article / vid reigns supreme; but a descriptive info to where to find suffices, if one is truly interested in learning the truth, then they will search for it.
May 7, 2022 2:39 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
Those who have commented, please don't forget to vote also - thank you! :D
May 7, 2022 2:49 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin
blathinblathinGlasgow, Central, Scotland UK1 Threads 4,943 Posts
marksapio: Your statement falls into one / some of the "logical fallacies" - for a list:


Yes, lots of thin people consume animal meat - I know that just too well, I have always been thin (in fact, I have been underweight) while eating lots of meat, the majority of my diet in fact. After I switched to a healthy plant-based diet, I gained weight, healthily (some fat, mostly muscle), without going to the gym.

Consuming a plant-based diet does not guarantee thinness - this is true, because nothing is guaranteed ever when generalized. However, when being specific, a healthy(!) plant-based diet will in almost all cases guarantee for one to achieve and sustain a healthy weight (not "thinness", that is undefined). And again, strictly speaking, even then it's "in almost all cases" and not "always" because of medical reasons that might be impossible or seemingly impossible to achieve. Both statements have been scientifically proven on a medical level (lab tested and peer reviewed), there are YT channels to go into those in detail, also nutritionfacts.org is a good source.

Again, it's important to be specific and factual, AKA not to "muddle the waters" with broad claims and statements that seem logical at first, but have a lot of logical holes in them and other logical issues. It's best to evaluate one's statements with the list of logical fallacies (see link I provided) to help understand if a statement or argument applies and thus should not be posted.
Hmm not sure I believe that one...As far as I know, there's no way anyone will put on fat if they're eating a 100% plant based diet and not eathing other junk along side it..e.g. additives, sugar..

Muscles are heavier than fat so I'm wondering if it may be the case that you became more active after changing to a PBD and exchanged the fat for muscles...
May 7, 2022 2:54 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
blathin: What I said was:

"If meat eating was so good for us then why are so many grossly obese people (many of which are American who eat vast quantities of meat) so overweight but yet so undernourished and so lacking in nutrients?

Because they dont eat enough , if any, vegetables, salads etc etc..."

That is NOT fat shaming. That is what's called asking a question. So if you think that's fat shaming then you're accusing every scientist who's ever done or is doing research into the same question offat shaming as well....

And it's people like you who kill the pursuit of truth, knowledge and inquiry....with your stupid little "oh your fat shaming" nonsense. Grow up and get over yoruself jac. People want answers and to get those answers questions need to be asked...Enough people with your attitude will mean no one can ever ask a question again and that's it....end of answers....end of discovery...end of solutions to problems...

is that the kind of world you want to live in eh?

The only thing I'm guilty of in that paragraph is asking a question that you chose to take offence at....that's your problem, not mine..
Your question wasn't scientifc, so claiming scientific authority in asking the question in the manner you did is ineffective.

Proposing a hypothesis that there is a correlation between the proportion of meat consumed in the diet and body weight needn't fat-shame, nor be xenophobic.

Your conclusions within your question about eating habits fail to take into account many factors like carbohydrates, sugars, quantities, etc. and create a loaded question. That's not scientific.

If you choose to take offense at me pointing out that you can ask questions without fat-shaming, xenophobic statements, or pre-conceived, illogical fallacy, then that's your problem.
May 7, 2022 2:57 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
blathin: Hmm not sure I believe that one...As far as I know, there's no way anyone will put on fat if they're eating a 100% plant based diet and not eathing other junk along side it..e.g. additives, sugar..
Err...two loaves of bread slathered with vegan butter every day?
May 7, 2022 3:06 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin
blathinblathinGlasgow, Central, Scotland UK1 Threads 4,943 Posts
marksapio: Points well made, but let's not let this grow into an argument. Asking an honest (not underhanded) question is ok. Making statements that don't fall with any of the "logical fallacies" is ok too, ideally backed up with a reference - a link to the article / vid reigns supreme; but a descriptive info to where to find suffices, if one is truly interested in learning the truth, then they will search for it.
I wasn't starting an arguement because I've no interest in one, that's Jac's speciality....

The truth is pretty simple imo...

Eat real food sensibly and your body will thank you. How you treat your body today and tomorrow is the body you will get in ten years....

A little meat is a good thing as it provides protein and B12 that can't be found in veg....the problem is the western diet has far far ar too much meat in it...and little to no fish either. Fish ,if left alone, can replenish their own shoal size inside 5 to 7 years.....imagine how many acres of rain forest woudl have been saved if fish were the dominant protein source in the west..

The questions future generations will be asking and really need answers to ... is what's the most energy efficent way to get protein and other vital nutrition and make it self sustaining so reliance on oil/fuel.chemicals etc..can be zero....
May 11, 2022 4:40 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
shushibearonline today!
shushibearonline today!shushibearinverness, Highland, Scotland UK1 Posts
I'm a vegan, for health reasons. I really enjoy plant based foods. I don't eat any processed foods.

I'm happy and healthy but each to their own.
May 11, 2022 5:12 PM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
loulou77
loulou77loulou77Vancouver, British Columbia Canada1 Threads 2,255 Posts
blathin: I wasn't starting an arguement because I've no interest in one, that's Jac's speciality....

The truth is pretty simple imo...

Eat real food sensibly and your body will thank you. How you treat your body today and tomorrow is the body you will get in ten years....

A little meat is a good thing as it provides protein and B12 that can't be found in veg....the problem is the western diet has far far ar too much meat in it...and little to no fish either. Fish ,if left alone, can replenish their own shoal size inside 5 to 7 years.....imagine how many acres of rain forest woudl have been saved if fish were the dominant protein source in the west..

The questions future generations will be asking and really need answers to ... is what's the most energy efficent way to get protein and other vital nutrition and make it self sustaining so reliance on oil/fuel.chemicals etc..can be zero....
I thought you made good points and did not think you were fat shaming. I am not vegan but more lacto ovo...please excuse my spelling...lol...and I do like fish once in awhile...and I do buy leather...but willing to give up material coming from animals...

The OP sounds too self rightious...lighten up the conversation...enjoy your time here...OP

wine
May 12, 2022 3:50 AM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
jac_the_gripper
jac_the_gripperjac_the_gripperTonyrefail, South Glamorgan, Wales UK24 Threads 8,172 Posts
I've just read this about the fish oil industry and was aghast at the scale of the ecological muppetry and deceit:

May 14, 2022 11:24 AM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
blathin: The truth is pretty simple imo... Eat real food sensibly and your body will thank you. How you treat your body today and tomorrow is the body you will get in ten years....
That depends on what is considered "real food", which you make clear in your next statement and includes meat, where you make logical fallacies through factual wrong statements that are based on your opinions / bias as facts:

blathin: A little meat is a good thing as it provides protein and B12 that can't be found in veg....
The largest and strongest animals are and always have been (dinos) herbivores, and that body mass is mostly muscle, which is created from proteins / amino acids - how is that possible, if "protein can't be found in veg", there is also an issue with your statement in terms of that "a little bit of meat" consumption by humans is "a good thing", when B12 alone can be found in plenty amounts in a number of plant sources, plus there is always plant-based (vegan) supplements that provide that, in case you do not want to / can't get sufficient amounts of B12 from plant sources themselves.

Yes, meat has a lot of nutrients in them, but also "things" that are very harmful to the human body - heme iron, cholesterol and sat-fats specifically, which lead to cancer and obesity; you can get the non-heme iron from a number of plants, and the human body produces its own cholesterol and fats, thus adding that to one's diet is counterproductive to human health.

The conclusion is that, unless there is no sufficient access to caloric-dense plant sources (avocados, nuts, seeds) to equalize your energy expenditure - which is only true nowadays for survivalists / very remote areas of the world - there is no need and even is counterproductive to human health to consume animal products.

There is also the math aspect of it, which relates to land mass, water and food requirements for a sustained and sufficient "production" of animal mammals to provide sufficient B12 and "protein"... (btw, B12 is not produced by the animal mammals, but fed to them by the agriculture industry, you do know that, right?)

If you'd do the math (this was done for various countries and their regions, scientifically correctly AKA w/ correct numbers) you'd realize a number of things:

1. the landmass is just not there to sustain this - especially in smaller countries like Japan and the UK, and especially in the use of "free range" animals, which a lot of people go on about;
2. the huge amount of potable water requirement is wasteful and could and should rather be used for irrigation for plant-food production;
3. the huge amount of plant-matter consumed by all those animals for this mathematical model, could instead be fed to humans directly and that would already end world hunger.

blathin: ...the problem is the western diet has far far ar too much meat in it...and little to no fish either. Fish ,if left alone, can replenish their own shoal size inside 5 to 7 years.....
Again, that's based on bias and make-believe, not factual data and science. There are a lot of issues with this line of thinking, relating in particular to negative ecological impact and human health - for the latter, you can find plenty of scientifically written articles via

nutritionfacts.org/?s=fish

blathin: The questions future generations will be asking and really need answers to ... is what's the most energy efficent way to get protein and other vital nutrition and make it self sustaining so reliance on oil/fuel.chemicals etc..can be zero....
For most countries the infrastructure is already there to achieve all that with plant sources, especially once they remove animal agriculture. And transportation is already switching to electricity, which is not even the biggest ecological impact, but animal agriculture is. Lots of reliable info:

May 14, 2022 11:44 AM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
For those who are interested to learn about fats and other health subjects, this is a recent video with those subjects talked about / explained by a medical professional (MD):

May 15, 2022 12:36 AM CST Healthy vegan diet / plant-based - for health, save the planet, ethics, are you already?
Mackenzie123
Mackenzie123Mackenzie123Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada2 Threads 2 Polls 7 Posts
Thank God most who voted in this poll, voted yes on a plant based diet. banana

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