Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death? ( Archived) (30)

Jan 7, 2009 4:06 PM CSTDo we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia, Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts

Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?(Vote Below)

- (To Vote: select an option above, then press this button)
No, it is immoral
13
17%
Yes, we have the right to make that decision
46
60%
I am in doubt
6
8%
I wish
12
16%
Total Votes
77
In Switzerland there is no panishment for those who have made a choice to die peacefuly. They have a right between suffering in constant pain and to leave that World in peace.


Why? Don't Healthdepartments and Goverments of the rest of the Planet let terminally ill people to die.

Why? They want them and their families to go on with miserable living.

It is like our "In God we trust" countries enjoy to watch their own people torture. How heartless it is.

If i ever will get any fatal illness i'll go to Switzerland. wine
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Jan 7, 2009 4:13 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
mindfful
mindffulmindffulChicago, Illinois USA235 Threads 8 Polls 18,996 Posts
omg
you idiotdoh



rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 7, 2009 4:15 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jampet
jampetjampetwexford, Wexford Ireland28 Threads 1 Polls 2,549 Posts
Konigsberg: In Switzerland there is no panishment for those who have made a choice to die peacefuly. They have a right between suffering in constant pain and to leave that World in peace.Why? Don't Healthdepartments and Goverments of the rest of the Planet let terminally ill people to die.

Why? They want them and their families to go on with miserable living.

It is like our "In God we trust" countries enjoy to watch their own people torture. How heartless it is.

If i ever will get any fatal illness i'll go to Switzerland.


as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??laugh
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Jan 7, 2009 4:28 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
jampet: as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??
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Jan 7, 2009 4:30 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jampet: as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??


Very well said, 100% on the money.thumbs up
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Jan 7, 2009 4:32 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Jezz forgot to write a reply. frustrated

So you know what I am talking about. Then WHY?

Have you ever asked your boss why we do not have those rights?

I'm wondering what an explonation they have. confused


as for a sore point i would more worry about sore back ... the rest is triviallaugh
wave
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Jan 7, 2009 4:36 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
mickeyscouse
mickeyscousemickeyscouseLondon, Greater London, England UK27 Threads 1 Polls 2,065 Posts
Konigsberg: Steven I need to know anatomical places where to point that rusty tool and to die at once.

You don't want me to end up in London Infection Hospital. No? By the way i'll spend more money in London than in Switzerland Hey glad to see you in a good health and humorous condition.
Missed you


missed you too poo poo hug xxx bouquet
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Jan 7, 2009 5:29 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
pretzelman
pretzelmanpretzelmanLas Vegas, Nevada USA43 Threads 1 Polls 2,956 Posts
yes....I will have the final say when the pain becomes unbearable to me. Rest assured that will happen.
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Jan 7, 2009 5:50 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jampet
jampetjampetwexford, Wexford Ireland28 Threads 1 Polls 2,549 Posts
pretzelman: yes....I will have the final say when the pain becomes unbearable to me. Rest assured that will happen.


you may like to think so- but that is the crux of the matter, there are some diseases that slowly rob you of your ability to have any say in this matter, so unless you consciously choose at a very early stage of that disease to take matters into your own hands and end your life, then you are at the mercy of either the professionals who cannot legally help you die and can only act within the parameters of legal pain relief, or the family who choose to honour your wishes and face prosecution for carrying out your wishes to not allow you to suffer.

some people say?think? that 'life is paramount' whereas i believe that 'quality of life' is paramount.
is it better to live an extra day/week/month... when you are in constant pain, struggling to breathe, incontinent, etc etc and there are many etc's? or to accept that life as a pleasureable thing has passed. surely noone else has that right to decide that other than the person that is living that life??

I believe that noone that has not experienced the horror of watching someone die slowly in unneccessary pain should be allowed to make that choice- sadly I haveblues
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Jan 7, 2009 5:55 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
jampet: as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??


I agree completely, Jampet. I watched my husband die a slow and painful death from cancer, and he wished he could choose the time instead, and spare us both the suffering. I wouldn't want to put anyone through that, either. I believe in the Right to Die movement. And I agree with you on the above...if I were in such a bad state, I wouldn't want to put my loved ones through that, nor myself. What a horrible way to "live". wine
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Jan 7, 2009 6:26 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
hawk69
hawk69hawk69somewhere, New Jersey USA1 Threads 1 Polls 183 Posts
pretzelman: yes....I will have the final say when the pain becomes unbearable to me. Rest assured that will happen.
Ditto with one twist, I'm takin some scumbags with me. devil
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Jan 7, 2009 6:29 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
jampet: you may like to think so- but that is the crux of the matter, there are some diseases that slowly rob you of your ability to have any say in this matter, so unless you consciously choose at a very early stage of that disease to take matters into your own hands and end your life, then you are at the mercy of either the professionals who cannot legally help you die and can only act within the parameters of legal pain relief, or the family who choose to honour your wishes and face prosecution for carrying out your wishes to not allow you to suffer.

some people say?think? that 'life is paramount' whereas i believe that 'quality of life' is paramount.
is it better to live an extra day/week/month... when you are in constant pain, struggling to breathe, incontinent, etc etc and there are many etc's? or to accept that life as a pleasureable thing has passed. surely noone else has that right to decide that other than the person that is living that life??

I believe that noone that has not experienced the horror of watching someone die slowly in unneccessary pain should be allowed to make that choice- sadly I have


Again, I agree completely. It's quality of life, not quantity. Heck, we have the right to take our dog or cat to the vet when they lose quality of life, or are in so much pain that it's hard to see them suffer...but we can't take our humans to the doctor for this. Doesn't make any sense to me.
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Jan 7, 2009 6:30 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
pretzelman
pretzelmanpretzelmanLas Vegas, Nevada USA43 Threads 1 Polls 2,956 Posts
jampet: you may like to think so- but that is the crux of the matter, there are some diseases that slowly rob you of your ability to have any say in this matter, so unless you consciously choose at a very early stage of that disease to take matters into your own hands and end your life, then you are at the mercy of either the professionals who cannot legally help you die and can only act within the parameters of legal pain relief, or the family who choose to honour your wishes and face prosecution for carrying out your wishes to not allow you to suffer.

some people say?think? that 'life is paramount' whereas i believe that 'quality of life' is paramount.
is it better to live an extra day/week/month... when you are in constant pain, struggling to breathe, incontinent, etc etc and there are many etc's? or to accept that life as a pleasureable thing has passed. surely noone else has that right to decide that other than the person that is living that life??

I believe that noone that has not experienced the horror of watching someone die slowly in unneccessary pain should be allowed to make that choice- sadly I have




well....I know what I suffer from. I know the ultimate outcome. I'll know when the time has come. I have given this much thought!!
I will not waste away or be a burden to others. I have been independent since 15 years old. I will die, independentthumbs up
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Jan 7, 2009 6:37 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Tater
TaterTaterspringfield, Illinois USA45 Threads 3 Polls 3,326 Posts
Yes we have the right to choose, but in the end we will be judged for our decisions....
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Jan 7, 2009 6:39 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
pretzelman: well....I know what I suffer from. I know the ultimate outcome. I'll know when the time has come. I have given this much thought!!
I will not waste away or be a burden to others. I have been independent since 15 years old. I will die, independent


Good for you, Starlin.

Btw, we do all have the right to choose. We came into the world with free will. It's the lawyers (no offense) who've made it illegal, and the priests who made it immoral. There was a time when that right was recognized by society...a very, very long time ago.

wine
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Jan 7, 2009 6:41 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
Tater: Yes we have the right to choose, but in the end we will be judged for our decisions....


Yes, Tater...and nobody else has the right to judge us but our own souls afterward. thumbs up
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Jan 7, 2009 7:10 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
---We do not know who chose our right to this life--- death is, I would suggest the most personal thing we will encounter in our choices laugh --- I beleive its should be our own choice, irrespective of what stage of passing we are at .

Personally, I'm 'looking at pain being the required "release" of passing, though the jury is still out on this one - will probably face the self questions/possibilities when it happens
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Jan 7, 2009 8:17 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
rasgumby
rasgumbyrasgumbyMoberly, Missouri USA99 Threads 10 Polls 4,665 Posts
mindfful: omg
you idiot


I hope he never has the idea to put you out of his misery!!rolling on the floor laughing
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Jan 7, 2009 11:30 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
LILLYLADY
LILLYLADYLILLYLADYunknown, Ohio USA27 Threads 1,293 Posts
jampet: as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??


I agree here. Hospice nurses are not there to kill a patient. They are there to give their best to alleviate the patient's suffering until the patient passes away naturally. One can see on a patient's face after death whether they were suffering pain at the time of death. Their facial skin tells the story.

Several years back,I was forced by a Court of Law to stop a bolus tube feeding on a patient before they were even admitted to hospice.(I never saw the court order but was informed by the mgt. of the nursing home) The person was still walking around but was suffering from a stroke and didn't communicate well and wasn't eating. However, she would enjoy when people did stop and speak to her. She was aphasic. I refused to be responsible for her care and transferred her care to another nurse that was willing to withold her feedings and give her medicine just as the court had ordered. My stance was that I would not be a party to legal euthanasia under the protection of my nursing license. Day by day, the woman got weaker and became bedridden and eventually died. She was finally admitted to hospice. The end of the story is that I got reprimanded for refusing to care for the woman and follow the court order, which eventually caused my termination of my job.

No, I did not get reported to the State Board of Nursing as I didn't abandon the patient but rather transferred the care and responsibility to another staff nurse. There was a competent continuity of care established. If a doctor does not wish to establish himself as a physician for a patient or no longer wishes to remain a patient's doctor, he may transfer that responsibility to another physician with continuity of care. It is not abandonment. It is within nursing and physician jurisdiction to do this. Perhaps our CS ER doc would care to comment if he reads this?
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Jan 7, 2009 11:43 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
"I have a long journey to take, and must bid the company farewell."
Walter Raleigh (1554-1618), English explorer

"If this is dying, I don't think much of it."
Lytton Strachey (1880-1932), British writer

"Dear me, I believe I am becoming a god. An emperor ought at least to die on his feet."
Vespasian (9-79 AD), Roman emperor

"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish dramatist. As he lay dying in Paris

"I feel nothing, apart from a certain difficulty in continuing to exist."
Bernard de Fontenelle (1657-1757), French philosopher.

"Why are you weeping? Did you imagine that I was immortal?"
Louis XIV (1638-1715), Well known French king, as his servants cried for him.

courtesy of said what
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Jan 7, 2009 11:45 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature.
Voltaire

"Turn up the lights, I don't want to go home in the dark."
O. Henry (William Sidney Porter 1862-1910), US story writer

"On the contrary!"
Henrik Ibsen (1828-1906), Norwegian dramatist on a suggestion he was better,

"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."
Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910), Russian author, comment on the the Russian Orthodox Church as he lay dying

"I'm so bored with it all."
Winston Churchill

"Too late for fruit, too soon for flowers."
Walter De La Mare (1873-1956), Response from the British poet when asked if he would like some fruit or flowers

"This is no time to make new enemies." - Voltaire, when asked on his deathbed to forswear Satan
courtsey of said what
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Jan 8, 2009 1:36 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
CuspofMagic: We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature.
Voltaire

"Turn up the lights, I don't want to go home in the dark."
O. Henry (William Sidney Porter 1862-1910), US story writer

"On the contrary!"
Henrik Ibsen (1828-1906), Norwegian dramatist on a suggestion he was better,

"Even in the valley of the shadow of death, two and two do not make six."
Leo Tolstoy (1828-1910), Russian author, comment on the the Russian Orthodox Church as he lay dying

"I'm so bored with it all."
Winston Churchill

"Too late for fruit, too soon for flowers."
Walter De La Mare (1873-1956), Response from the British poet when asked if he would like some fruit or flowers

"This is no time to make new enemies." - Voltaire, when asked on his deathbed to forswear Satan
courtsey of said what


Do you have alot of free time on your hands ? doh
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Jan 8, 2009 1:37 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
jvaski: Do you have alot of free time on your hands ?
laugh
google cut and paste --- easylaugh
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Jan 8, 2009 1:41 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jvaski
jvaskijvaskiunknown, California USA115 Threads 11 Polls 9,576 Posts
CuspofMagic: google cut and paste --- easy


Thanks ....... I was wondering ..........laugh
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Jan 8, 2009 1:43 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
morgan5
morgan5morgan5chelmsford, Essex, England UK87 Threads 8,237 Posts
jampet: as a nurse who has worked with terminally ill people in the community- i most certainly believe in it.
have been totally angered by people that have said in the media that hospice nurses( whom i worked side by side with) have a 'licence to kill and hasten death' That is soooo not the case, and i have never seen a single persons death 'hastened' by the drugs that are given to relive pain/nausea/secretion...( i have seen death occur in a painfree and dignified manner, death that was going to happen at that time anyway))... but i think this is the thing that makes some people feel that 'euthanasia' is practiced regularly by medical professionals.

I also work with people that have horrendous diseases that take from them the ability to move/feed themselves/talk/ go to the toilet/breathe unaided, and whatever they may feel about it, I KNOW that if I was in that situation, i would want to have available to me, the choice to end that non curable suffering, when I chose to do so.
I would never force that suggestion on anyone else, but would hate to be forced to be a prisoner in my pain wracked, quality-void body, because of 'do gooders' who feel it is their right to dictate what i should suffer to soothe their own conscience

Oops can you tell this is a sore point with me??
having worked in care all my life, i agree wholeheartedly
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Jan 8, 2009 4:23 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Konigsberg: In Switzerland there is no panishment for those who have made a choice to die peacefuly. They have a right between suffering in constant pain and to leave that World in peace.Why? Don't Healthdepartments and Goverments of the rest of the Planet let terminally ill people to die.

Why? They want them and their families to go on with miserable living.

It is like our "In God we trust" countries enjoy to watch their own people torture. How heartless it is.

If i ever will get any fatal illness i'll go to Switzerland.
Some INFO on the Matter:





But the matter is still controversial here in CH.conversing wave
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Jan 8, 2009 9:18 AM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
Konigsberg
KonigsbergKonigsbergJurassic Park (Site B), Nova Scotia Canada57 Threads 3 Polls 8,448 Posts
Conrad73: Pretty messy,I'd say.


lol blood and dirt and holes in a body. uh oh
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Jan 8, 2009 6:00 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
buzzy
buzzybuzzybiddeford, Maine USA24 Threads 1,492 Posts
There is alot of money in geriatric care in the states. No dought lobbyist influence the decission about legal suicide. As if they can prosecute a dead person. Then you factor in the defacto religious stand of our goverment, it will never be legal here. However, I'm for it. If I'm ill with no hope, and facing an agonizing death, I want to decide when I go. After all, it is MY life. It is MY body. But you know what the bottom line is. I can put a gun to my head and pull the trigger. What the hell can they do? If I'm a quadraplegic and stuck in a bed, I don't want to live that way. Atleast let me end it, when I choose.
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Jan 8, 2009 6:03 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
druidess6308
druidess6308druidess6308Aliquippa, Pennsylvania USA79 Threads 13,695 Posts
CuspofMagic: We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature.
Voltaire



"This is no time to make new enemies." - Voltaire, when asked on his deathbed to forswear Satan
courtsey of said what


I love these ones by Voltaire. The first, very true...and in it's own way, the second. wine

laugh laugh Have to laugh at that one about Satan again...that's just too funny.
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Jan 8, 2009 6:16 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
CuspofMagic
CuspofMagicCuspofMagiclight, South Australia Australia278 Threads 7,904 Posts
druidess6308: I love these ones by Voltaire. The first, very true...and in it's own way, the second.

Have to laugh at that one about Satan again...that's just too funny.

yep they are all quite good within context and a few gems like this one- forgive and forget = growth- unimagineable

"We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature."
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Jan 8, 2009 6:25 PM CST Do we have a Right to choose "Life" and Death?
jampet
jampetjampetwexford, Wexford Ireland28 Threads 1 Polls 2,549 Posts
CuspofMagic: "I have a long journey to take, and must bid the company farewell."
Walter Raleigh (1554-1618), English explorer

"If this is dying, I don't think much of it."
Lytton Strachey (1880-1932), British writer

"Dear me, I believe I am becoming a god. An emperor ought at least to die on his feet."
Vespasian (9-79 AD), Roman emperor

"Either that wallpaper goes, or I do."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900), Irish dramatist. As he lay dying in Paris

"I feel nothing, apart from a certain difficulty in continuing to exist."
Bernard de Fontenelle (1657-1757), French philosopher.

"Why are you weeping? Did you imagine that I was immortal?"
Louis XIV (1638-1715), Well known French king, as his servants cried for him.

courtesy of said what



'' i told you i was sick''.... what Spike Milligan wanted on his headstone- not sure if he got itlaugh
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Created: Jan 2009
Last Viewed: 11 hrs ago
Last Commented: Jan 2009
Last Voted: Jul 2017

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