I spent several years with a christian band touring and performing in many parts of the world in churches of most of the major denominations. Because we always lived with people from whatever church we visited I got to experience many viewpoints up close and personal.
I came away from this experience knowing that we are more alike than different. The main practical difference between the major denominations is how they see and experience the Holy Spirit and His work. It varies from those who believe that God only speak to us through the bible to those who believe that we need to show some radical outward sign of having received the Holy Spirit (such as speaking in tongues) before we are considered to belong to God.
The truth is somewhere in the middle and the differences are probably a function of our individual experiences. It is thus no surprise to find people in a specific denomination who does not exactly adhere to the fine print of that denomination - because God showed them the truth Himself. But He also showed them that they need to be the voice of reason that counters extremism in that specific church.
The problem in all churches are that there are a great number of people confessing to christianity - while only following the culture and not the Source.
We share this feeling of being cofused about religion and not feeling at ease in church.
I however do not only believe in God but live in God - the reason? - I met Him and allowed Him to change me inside. This has nothing to do with religion - it is a relationship between me and the Living God.
No longer and confusion or insecurity - I know God and love Him. No longer alone - God know's me and loves me.
Why do those who live in Christ get involved in a debate of this type - on the turf of the opposition? You are wasting your effort by trying to counter every post with another post of one or two sentences trying to right a wrong with another wrong. Most attacks on the believers and the bible are based on 1)distortions or partial quotes of historical documents or 2)focussing on intellectual reasoning and ignoring the spiritual world completely.
I suggest that believers state their case clearly for readers who are searching and then stop verbally sparring with people who can in no way be changed or stopped by such sparring. In fact by doing this we are giving them a stage (and the type of their choosing) to discredit our God. By now everybody should have noticed that no new arguments are possible - it is a simple matter of those for and those against tiring each other. For us it should be about stating our conviction and reasons so that those who have chosen neither side may be offered something of value that will influence their choice when it happens. Would also be nice not to mentally tire them of the subject - but I suppose we are way beyond that point.
I obviously need to clear up something myself. I have stated this in other threads before but here goes:
CHRISTIANITY IS A CULTURE and this culture have very little in common with the teachings of Jesus Christ. Most of the people adopting this culture does so either because it is the accepted norm in their communities or because they want to be known as "good" people - which I do not have to point out is a wonderfull smokescreen for bad people as many of your posts demonstrate. These people have the habbit of hurting deeply because they blindside the unsuspecting victim. See them for who they are and be sure not to reject God because of the behaviour of these false people
The people who belong to God and unconditionally surrender themselves to God are a totally different bunch with totally different lifestyle and motives. These people are the followers of Jesus Christ and live to love and serve. You will often not find these people in churches because they to, are equally appalled by the tainted moral values of cultural christianity. Make a clear distinction between the two groups and do not judge God's character by the actions of the wrong group.
Maybe I should add that we are still in the world and prone to attack by evil because we chose the way we did. From God's perspective - He said that He will not allow us to be destroyed by evil and that every event that we call punishment is really a chance to learn more about the spirit world and God's care - every negative event has a positive outcome for those who chose Him - but in God's realm.
Samaya, what happens to bad people is not our business but that of God. It is between them and God only and we have nothing to add to it.
I sense that your question is based on a feeling of God being unjust to the righteous. My answer is for you to look at this question from God's perspective. Our life on earth is not supposed to be primarily a reward but a learning curve which starts with us chosing to align ourselves with God and ends at out death. The object of the exercise is for us to grow in our spiritual awareness, gain a better understanding of God's character, learn to unconditionally trust Him and to serve His people.
What happens to other people in God's realm is not our business. We have only one action to take regarding other people and that is to serve them with the Truth and be the guardians of Truth - to show God's character to them through our lives and our words.
I will use one of man's strongest weapons - To listen intently to what she is saying - while starting a numerical simulation program (with a sidechain input circuit and a carefully designed hardware interrupt algorithm) running in my mind.
I must admit to sitting here with a huge grin of amusement.
Are these things really the highest aspirations allowed the human race? Could it be that there are even more important things that a human can keep himself occupied with? And what about God in the flesh, living among humans with the specific task of raising the spiritual bar? Does it make any sense that He would specifically come here to indulge in a few acts that some seems to consider of higher importance than being reconciled with God?
We met Him in person and as is His character, each probably in a different way and under different circumstances. Some people hear His voice, some people experience His physical presence and for some it is a simple matter of suddenly being able to understand His message in its true context - but nobody who meet Him is in any doubt of who it was that they met or what is offered them. This meeting always changes the persons character - mainly with the will to surrender their lives to Him and do His will. You will always see a new level of compassion and an unexplained new love of people in somebody who met Him.
The bible speaks of the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians 5:22-23) and these are the things that appears in people who met Him. Apart from that He gives people individual abilities that has nothing to do with what they were educated to do - and these abilities are always to serve the Body of Christ.
And still you are not hearing what I am saying. Let me spell it out in simple terms. There are three entities involved here and you are getting them mixed up in each others affairs. In this way you are holding all entities responsible for the deeds of one.
These entities are the following: 1)God whom we know in the form of three entities each with its own task and workstyle but with ONE character and ONE purpose regarding man. 2)The Body of Christ - defined as those people who chose to belong to Him and surrender themselves to His will. 3)Cultural christianity - defined as those people who chose to align themselves with the culture of christianity.
Group 2 takes their cue from the Living God and their mission is the mission of God as described in many well known passages in the bible. They are no longer thinking in terms of guilt and reconciliation with God but in terms of a loving relationship with the Living God. Using the message of salvation to kill or hurt people will never be a part of what these people represent. Compassion in action is what these people are all about and they will go where ever God wants them to go and do whatever God asks of them. They are not particularly visible because they do not particularly care about what the world thinks of them and because they are under the guidance of God Himself, they do not indulge in any form of group hysterics, as is characteristic of most religions. Strictly speaking these people do not have any religion because each one speaks to God on his own and hears from God personally what it is that God is revealing to him or her. Most important is that these people do not force their will on others but also can not stand back to allow those who are searching for the truth to be misdirected by those who actively disguise or distort the truth. For this we will also not make any excuses.
Out of group 3 is where the historical attrocities originated that is popularly laid at the door of God and his followers.
And on page 42 of this thread your arguments against God and His people are still the same as on page 1 irrespective of what has been said in between. The fiction group still stress the need for irrefutable evidence (and still say that millions of people witnessing to a personal meeting with God is not evidence) and they still equate the christian culture and its tainted history, to God.
Just for the record - my reaction to this remain the same - I met Him in person and this meeting took away all doubt. Not only that - it completely changed me into a different person. That is all the evidence ever needed that God is fact. But wait - there is more - I am only one of a great number of people who had this experience, all witnessing to the same God and all unshakeable in this knowledge. But there is even more - all these people are being led to be part of a great and unstoppable movement. Today I met another person who knew exactly what the vision was that God recently gave me because the vision that he was given adds to mine. Together we and numerous other people are changing our world towards the will of God. I know that I have a current and specific task in God's plan which I intend doing exactly the way that He wants me to do it. I also know that tomorrow or next year there will be another task.
We dont expect the "fiction" group to understand this nor to give us any credit for it. I am writing this so that those who are searching for the truth can direct their search in the right direction. What I have described is the Kingdom of God and has nothing to do with church or the christian culture. The history and sins of the church and the christian culture can not be laid at God's door. It is for the account of those who lead people astray from the Kingdom of the Living God.
I was in a serious car accident some years ago and sustained some head injuries which affects my short term memory. Often I will just forget a word or a phrase and I really have to put major effort into remembering any sequences. This last problem has the most devastating effect on my life because it makes it impossible for me to play music in a band setup - and I so wish that I was exceptionally good at playing music in a group. I can still play if I repeat enough times that the music goes into my fingers but then expressing is out of the question.
The only really unpleasant deal breakers that I have encountered is that some cultures and specifically the Arab culture deems it acceptable to "lie when in trouble" and in some cultures it is unacceptable to ever be wrong. These are alien to my way of thinking.
I have been moving about among people of many different cultures and found that there are not many true deal breakers in cultural differences. In the end all people firstly wants your respect and secondly wants to know that you are a real person inside - that what you say and what you do is the same. Finally all people understand that there are differences in viewpoints but are willing to ignore these differences if you meet their expectations in the first two points above.
I suspect that this is really the way it should be in a relationship between man and woman where the differences are no less pronounced than between different cultures.
Dit is die taal!!!! Iemand hier praat die taal!!!!
Ek is nie verniet so opgewonde nie. Ek is op die oomblik in Zambie - grootste deel van die jaar al en ek verlang erg daarna om van 'n regte mens te hoor wat DIE TAAL praat. Klink asof jy ook so half eenkant bly?
A few important things about doors: 1)never close one yourself. Sometimes it is good to go outside and take a walk in park or just stand outside for a while - but dont close them yourself. 2)If another door is opened to you dont walk straigth through to the bedroom. This is a sure recipe for getting damaged. 3)Dont ever leave your house to go and find some other open doors - more so if it leads to a bedroom. Be happy with what you have and take time to beautify it.
An africaans song translated: I have long since moved to a room in my mind From there I carefully Watch the world go by.
My room has large windows but the door remains shut while the sun is filling my space with its warm orange glow.
It is a song about hurt and emotional healing that comes from within. The door is only opened when the healing has run its course.
And still those who are not from Africa retain a romanticised understanding of the word.
Yes Gilly, to travel and live in the great forests and plains of Africa changes all westerners outlook on life, but not because of coming into contact with game and nature. The people of Africa changes them. It is in their joy of life and their willingness to tackle great difficulties with patience and hard work. It is in their abillity to use what is at hand to create and it is in their attachment and dependency on the extended family. It shows westerners a new angle on what life is really all about.
When I was young I was under the impression that life was rather predictable and that I could somehow plan it for myself. Luckily that impression has been completely shattered - I now know how totally unpredictable life is and I have come to love it. There was a time in the trasition/learning period that I was waiting in fear for the next unexpected event that would change all my plans. I now dont plan at all and live life the way it comes - and I revel in this freedom. I still dont have a clue what next year will bring or where I will be - I just know it will not be here and it will not be the same as what I experienced this year. It might even be better - but it will defnitely be an adventure.
I dont understand the problem you refer to. All men are very good at expressing their feelings - these feelings are just very different from what women want them to be. Your question should be why cant women understand men's expressions of feelings. After all men understands women's way of expressing their feelings.
I understand about being in a position where life seems hardly worth living, everything seems to be against your survival and there is no more money in your pocket. I've been there. This experience left me with a great deal of compassion for those who find themselves in a dead end - whatever the reason.
Some years later I spent a lot of effort working amongst streetkids and naturally I learned a lot about the problem. The most important things I learned is that: 1)people who are really in need do not ask - they will not find you - you have to find them 2)some peoples problem is not as simple as lack of income or sustanaince - these are the people you refer to as junkies, beggars and scammers.
Some peoples needs can be met with money, food and housing. Those others who are the more visible component however need much more than that. They need to be nursed back to physical, emotional and psychological health before they can start lifting themselves up again. These people need much more than our money - in fact chances are that our money put in their hands just deepen the pit they are in.
Wikked I understand your reasons for not wanting to get involved with this guy. I pretty much did the same to the first woman I loved and she never quite recovered from this insecurity that I placed in her mind - even though I came to love her so much that I would never have left her for someone fitting my mental description. I was more than happy with who the woman was that I loved and totally committed to her - but I could never convince her.
None of the woman who fitted my perception of what I wanted ever managed to captivate me. Both the ladies I came to love deeply were physically complete opposites of what I thought would attract me. It is the woman inside who captivates. I hope I remember that the next time I get to meet someone who do not fit the picture that I even now still faithfully - stupidly - carry in my mind.
Somehow I doubt whether the christians in Saudi Arabia will agree with you. They chose God because they met Him and realised that they cannot continue life without Him.
1)I know that I did my part and more everytime. 2)I like myself and the life I lead 3)I dont compromise on quality, functionality or loyalty. 4)I dont allow a chance to express love or compassion go by.
omkeerpunt Forum Posts (268)
RE: Differences between Christian denominations?
I spent several years with a christian band touring and performing in many parts of the world in churches of most of the major denominations. Because we always lived with people from whatever church we visited I got to experience many viewpoints up close and personal.I came away from this experience knowing that we are more alike than different. The main practical difference between the major denominations is how they see and experience the Holy Spirit and His work. It varies from those who believe that God only speak to us through the bible to those who believe that we need to show some radical outward sign of having received the Holy Spirit (such as speaking in tongues) before we are considered to belong to God.
The truth is somewhere in the middle and the differences are probably a function of our individual experiences. It is thus no surprise to find people in a specific denomination who does not exactly adhere to the fine print of that denomination - because God showed them the truth Himself. But He also showed them that they need to be the voice of reason that counters extremism in that specific church.
The problem in all churches are that there are a great number of people confessing to christianity - while only following the culture and not the Source.