RE: Mandela affect

I'm not sure what you mean by the Mandela effect, but I have been influenced by a couple of things he has written.

You've just reminded me of my intention to read some more.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

I have felt uncomfortable with some of the responses from both men and women on this thread.

I was attempting to provoke some empathic thinking from each other's perspective.

I didn't expect all people to suddenly be able to relate to the opposite gender, Some people appear unable, or unwilling.

It is possible, however, to hold on to one's own position whilst acknowledging someone else's perspective.

One thing abortion should not be, is a power game.


Thanks for dropping by, Lucky.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. hug

(but we know you're a tough old goat and will be working yourself silly again in a couple of days time laugh)

RE: Should Abortion be banished

Assuming a binary model of gender...

For women: imagine you're excited to find you're pregnant and are already emotionally attached to your embryonic child, but you live in a different society.

In this society, it's legal to remove that child from your belly without your consent. You get whisked off, you lose that child. You feel the loss, the grief of having your child die and however much you feel that nobody has the right to do that, you have no protection, no say and no recourse for this act which has been committed.

For men: imagine you live in a society where aliens can plant embryos inside your body to gestate for 9 months, stretching your body to such proportions, you feel like you're going to burst hideously by half way through.

When the alien comes out, it will make you its slave. You'll need to be in two places at once for 10 hours a day, both caring for the alien and earning enough money to care for it. Alien care is so expensive, you can't earn enough to live. When you're not working, you get just a few minutes to sleep here and there in between caring for this demanding creature.

You know there's only two ways for that ever growing alien to come out of your body and that's either by passing through your p*nis at full term, or you can have it surgically removed at an early stage, knowing it won't survive.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

If you have a plebiscite regarding affording the legal right to marriage for all citizens, I don't need to know anything else about Australian law: I may surmise that the citizens of Australia are not afforded equal legal status.

That is not sufficient.

It's no more acceptable than Nazi Germany not affording all its citizens equal legal rights and status.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

Pretty much the same legal rights is not acceptable.

It's sufficient for all people to have the same legal rights.

That's the issue.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

No, civic union isn't sufficient because it's discriminatory not to afford all people in a society the same legal rights.

Over here, people can get married without stepping inside a church as marriage is a legal contract and the religious bit is optional.

It should be optional for all and I look forward to religion developing.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

No, civic union isn't sufficient because it's discriminatory not to afford all people in a society the same legal rights.

Over here, people can get married without stepping inside a church as marriage is a legal contract and the religious bit is optional.

It should be optional for all and I look forward to religion developing.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

And if some doesn't agree with same sex marriage, they may choose not to marry someone of the same sex. grin

RE: Same Sex Marriage

Yes, Track.

What little of it we have is precious.

RE: Same Sex Marriage

I have the choice to marry or not marry anyone of any gender.

Anyone else's opinion is immaterial. tongue

RE: Can the family unit be saved

I can't see any masculinity through your tantrumy posts. dunno

I don't hate, nor do I fear my granddaughter's tantrums. They're just tiresome and grating.

Good luck with the family unit thing. I'm sure there's loads of women out there just gagging for more whinging and squabbling to negotiate.

RE: Irma is coming

It's the last hurricane for at least 19 people in the Caribbean.


I'm comforted to hear you won't be in the path of the brunt of the storm, Lucky. I've been fretting.

But some poor sods have been and will be.

And yes, I have heard of hurricane katrina. A while back one of our forum posters rather graphically and angrily described his involvement in the recovery phase, months and months after the event.

I can't remember the poster but I do remember some of the things he said. I hadn't realised it was the most disadvantaged who were left behind. I suppose it's obvious, I just hadn't thought of it.

The British government have come under some biting and heartfelt criticism in the media for doing too little, too late in the Caribbean. It's been said they had the information early enough to do so much more.

I'd like to think that in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire our government might have been more on the ball, if not for humanitarian reasons, then at least for show.

Respect due to the aid workers risking themselves on the ground with José on the way, mind.

I hope you don't lose your power for long, Lucky. We'll want to know you're okay, as well as comfortable and fed.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

Except in an Irish hospital where it's perfectly legal.

RE: Can the family unit be saved

I've just checked, my big girl's pants on the right way, label at the back and on the inside and everything.

Umm...nah...I don't hate white men.

It's you don't like. grin

RE: Should Abortion be banished

By the way, the embryonic heart doesn't start beating until six week gestation.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

I realise the medics' actions were legal, but it can hardly be called perfect.

The issue is that the laws are flawed in their circumnavigation of ethical issues which aren't being addressed.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the difficulties surrounding causing deaths and saving lives doesn't make it all go away.

RE: Can the family unit be saved

Feminism is a movement for equal rights for women.

You can't have equal rights for women, without equal rights for men.

How stupid do you have to be to not see the opportunities in that? laugh

What you're calling for with the destruction of feminism, is to go back to men having more rights and power than women, for sons to have more than daughters.

That's why no woman wants a family unit with you. It's not about society, so much as about how unpleasant you are personally.

For so many women, being a single mother is exactly about saving the family unit from men like you.

Some of us stay on our own, some of us find nicer men to share a family unit with.

Maybe, if you learn to play nicely, someone might want to play with you, but you need to take personal responsibility for that and stop blaming women.

RE: How about this:- What type of subjects and by who do u want on the Forums ?

Hang on a mo, Dedo's wearing my knickers.

I don't want them left just anywhere. snooty

RE: Should Abortion be banished

Yes, it sounds like there's no medical, or logical rationale behind the Act, or constitution.

Somebody said it was okay, so it is okay. A way to bypass any difficult questions, or decisions.

But the Irish medics killed a woman a couple of years ago and it was news worldwide, wasn't it?

A foreign woman and her husband with a much wanted child, but when it all went horribly wrong and she begged for medical assistance in her agony, the doctors refused because the baby still had a heart beat.

The baby was still born as she and they new it would, the mother died shortly after as she and they knew she would.

How is that different from aborting an ectopic pregnancy? Oh yeah, they killed the mother, too.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

What is the philosophical, or ethical rationale behind this Irish law which demonstrates that abortion of ectopic pregnancy is not abortion?

RE: Should Abortion be banished

You have used an English language definition, Seaworthy.

In a medical context that's called an induced abortion to distinguish it from a spontaneous abortion, aka, a miscarriage.

Surgery to remove an ectopic pregnancy is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, aka, an abortion.

Ectopic terminations are performed at such an early stage of pregnancy, there is no possibility of the embryo surviving, even if it were to be removed undamaged.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

A miscarriage is an abortion: a spontaneous abortion.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

It's a live and potentially viable embryo which is removed.

Ectopic pregnancies are aborted because the chances of the mother and child's survival are so slim, and the death of the mother in these cases is not a good one.

But in some very small number of cases, both mother and child survive.

It is an abortion.

Do you begin to see that this subject is fraught with double standards?

We weigh up one, or more lives against one, or more others.

The mother of three, pregnant with a much wanted fourth is offered an abortion of her ectopic pregnancy so she survives and can continue to look after her three children.

The mother carrying sextuplets, or octuplets is offered abortion of all, but two, in the hope of saving at least those two. The mother who can't bear to choose between all her children, loses them all.

The struggling mother of a high needs child and toddler is offered an abortion when a new form of contraception proves statistically unreliable, despite doctors' claims of it's efficacy. Does she preserve the life of her embryo, or meeting the basic needs of the children she already has?

Maybe it's easier to see these harrowing decisions as black and white when you don't actually have to make them, but they are balancing lives against lives. Whichever you choose, there is perhaps something which might be called a double standard.

The biggest double standard, however, is denying mothers support to have their child and then judging them for accepting the offered abortion.

RE: Should Abortion be banished

What would you call allowing a woman with an ectopic pregnancy to die by refusing an abortion?

Is that not murder?


$99 may be good if you have $99.

Or $495 for a family of five with three children.

Or a credit card.

And money for somewhere to stay.

But what of the people who don't?

RE: Should Abortion be banished


Is abortion empowering for women?

It maybe gives us a choice, but it's a shit choice.

Contraception is empowering for women (although I could put a few arguments against hormonal contraception).

Affordable child care opportunities, a living wage, pay parity, affordable, safe housing, utilities and food...these things are empowering for women.

I've yet to meet a woman who felt empowered by having an abortion, whether for extreme medical, or other reasons.


I think it's naive to think a woman needs a medical reason to have an abortion. Being young, single, homeless, unemployed, poor, unsupported, judged...these are not medical reasons. They are social reasons.

The stress these issues put on women make them become medical reasons, but they are not medical reasons in themselves.

Perhaps abortion is most empowering for the people who already have power.

Perhaps we are being duped.

Perhaps we are being shafted in a most insidious way.


RE: Should Abortion be banished

I've just realised my mistake - the risks for men aren't much the same.

We cannot escape the fact that it's women who do the pregnancy a childbirth thing.

It's quite a big thing, that.

RE: Should Abortion be banished


In the UK parents and government are obliged to financially support minors until they are 18, or until they finish further education up to the age of 19.

Ideally, parenting should be a joint decision and a joint responsibility, but there are practical issues which cannot be ignored.

A father can have a say, but what next?

A father saying he wants an unborn child, wants to contribute financially, wants to partake in raising the child may influence a woman's decision: that kind of support can make all the difference if a woman is feeling overwhelmed by the enormity of becoming a parent, or having another child. On the other hand, it may make little difference to how she is coping, or will cope in the future depending on her circumstances. Men can say how they feel, but they can't demand that a woman goes through with a pregnancy.

Conversely, a man who says he doesn't want anything to do with a child may influence a woman's decision, but if she's determined to have the child, she can't be forced to abort, nor should an absent father escape all responsibility.

On a practical level, the only way I can see that a man can protect himself from becoming a father, or facing the possibility of his child being aborted is to abstain from sex, or use some serious belt and braces forms of contraception.

For as long as people willingly risk pregnancy, they risk having to accept the consequences of that. Contraception isn't 100% protection, people have mishaps, people deceive.

For women the consequences might be pregnancy, childbirth, becoming a parent maybe on their own, or abortion. (I've yet to meet a woman who hasn't been profoundly affected if they have had an abortion.)

For men, the risks are much the same, but with less control.

Maybe young men and boys would benefit from early education in order to protect themselves with respect to these issues.

This is a list of forum posts created by jac_the_gripper.

pirategirl: "PABLO NERUDA"(meet us in the poems)
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