Perfectly fair that you should. But based on these forums, the real action is Christians lecturing everyone else on the error of their ways (present company excepted I am sure)
I like Obama and think he is doing well and doing his best....but isn't this a bit premature to put it mildly!!??
I don't know who else they might have given it to but personally, I would have waited to see the follow through on some of his initiatives. He has only been in office for 9 months!
I think the EU is quite democratic. It needs more scrutiny by national parliaments but that requires voters to show a bit more interest so that politicians think it is worth their while to pay more attention to EU matters. You are entitled to your views but saying the EU is grossly undemocratic requires a bit of justification.
Yes, but last week's vote wasn't about getting cash for Ireland it was about playing our part in making Europe more manageable. We don't have to get money for everything. We have broader interests and making friends and staying involved close to the heart of decision making is part of it.
That's true. But then the Tories are pretty anti European everything. As for the Czech President, he is a pretty extreme figure. I don't think most of the Czechs have much time for him. I bet they find a way round his obstructions. I don't know what the situation is in Poland though.
There may not be a referendum on Europe for a while because this issue took seven years to negotiate but there is no ban on referenda in the future. It's a myth.
I agree. But as long as we live in a democracy we get to vote for people and then must accept that they are elected to represent us for five years. Then we can change them if we want.
Meanwhile they are our choice and therefore our fault
The Yes campaigners were mostly the Governemtn we elected two years ago and the Opposition (bar Sinn Fein) that we voted for at the same time. These are OUR representatives not someone else's
Lorraine, the scaremongers won the first time! They told a pack of lies and got away with it. They didn't this time. Also the jobs angle was a negative one....it is not that jobs are guaranteed by a yes vote, just that they were seriously threatened by a no vote. I don't think the american multi-nationals were bluffing about their attitude should we walk away from Europe.
I don't understand why you think we are paying and paying for things...the problem is that our entire tax take is so low compared to the demands of paying for health, education, social welfare and other things that we have to borrow over 20 billion to get by. People are under no obligation to loan us the money. Our credible strong membership of the EU and the Euro gives us the power to borrow. Otherwise we would be in a far worse state. Lets not make unnecessary enemies from a selfish attitude to Lisbon when we have never needed friends so much.
This is the crucial point...well said. All this bull about loss of independence is British right wing propaganda that has been pushed at us for thirty years by Rupert Murdoch's papers and the Mail and their kind. Ireland is much freer in the EU than ever before. We have taken agriculture money and particularly regional money to build our infrastructure and our independence. Lisbon doesn't give us a bribe of a pile of cash, it just allows the EU to reorganise more efficiently and give a chance to other states who join....a chance like we had before. It doesnt harm us and it wasnt a lot to ask of us that we endorse a treaty that took all of the states, big and small, including us, seven years to negotiate.
Just look at the coalition that wants NO - Sinn Fein, Coir, Dana and company, Patricia McKenna (who is against everything) and some people who are opposed on principle to any ceding of sovereignty (a position that can be respected though it is arguable how practical it is). Then there is the cranky reactionary President of the Czech Republic who seems determined to thwart the will of his own people and the British Eurosceptics. God help us in that company.
Worse still there is the delusion on the No side that there is some better treaty to be had by us saying no. Who is going to negotiate it? Sinn Fein? Give me a break!!
It was a good day for Ireland's battered reputation. We did the right thing to aid others and now we can get back to looking after the shambles our country has fallen ito with some friends to help us!
Fallingman Forum Posts (11,436)
RE: Would you give up a relationship for your dog?
Can someone summarise this thread in three sentences please to save me reading for an hour?