Ambrose2007 Forum Posts (8,881)

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

That song really hit all MY marks - at least in terms of lyrics and subject-matter! - V. Thanks for locating such a perfect song for what I've been feeling. (I'm almost beginning to suspect that I'm not entirely alone - that there may be many others, including songwriters, who've had this experience )

What I like about the song is its duality: it's not just a bunch of trite urgings to "move on," but rather acknowledges the conflicting feelings of someone who hasn't quite moved on yet. It talks more about wistfully being ready to move on someday, rather than being in that state today. Today, the writer is saying that she would wish to have her lover back. Not exactly "moving on"!

I'm sure that one travels this journey in stages. I doubt anyone reaches the ready to move on phase in one quick leap (though it appears that some people seem to believe that's possible...but then I suppose that depends on the depth of the love? If there isn't much, maybe that is possible).

Anyway, your compassion and consideration is much-appreciated, V.

RE: Living Beyond One's Means

Well, it seems like there are two fairly separable issues here, and I'm not sure (from reading your OP) which is of most concern to you.

The issue raised by the title is spending more than you can afford. You could live beyond your means by purchasing things which aren't normally considered frills (if you're sufficiently poor), so the question isn't inherently about buying particular items.

The questions you raise in your original post have to do with the psychology loosely referred to as "materialistic" - that is, attaching what some consider to be an untoward value to material goods. It is, of course, quite possible to buy tons of frills that you mentioned while living within one's means, but I suppose it would be particularly inexcusable to spend more than you can afford on frills (as opposed to better foods or something).

I liked "toys" a lot less than most people, but even I enjoy improving my TV situation or buying a new computer from time to time. I think these things ought to be purchased within a disciplined budget, however - and only after one's true needs are responsibly accounted for.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

This is a song I was thinking of when I considered how people can get caught up in endless virtual romances. It's called "Cat's in the Cradle," and though it's about a father-son relationship, I think it applies well to the aforementioned relationships. In these relationships one partner usually promises or makes reference to some future get-together that proves eternally elusive, just as the father and son getting together in this song proves eternally elusive.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Hell, yeah!

Exceptionally well-stated, B. I was pretty shocked and annoyed by his comments about me (we'd always been on a friendly basis before), but when I read his exchanges with Bodecia my blood began to boil. You just don't say such things - utterly unjustified and reprehensible things - to a lady, especially in a public forum. Most of us understand that we don't truly know many of the people, and that much of what we think of them is speculative. There simply is no rational basis for assuming knowledge about others here - particularly knowledge of an extremely egregious nature.



For me it's not about holding a grudge. I have no feelings about him personally. I simply believe his behavior transcended permissible limits for this kind of list, and therefore I believe he ought to be removed from it.

By the way, B, your response to him: PURE CLASS. Most of us can only aspire to behave in such a restrained and classy manner under such circumstances.


[quote=Bodecia
I understand you are a friend of Thewall, and I admire you for your loyalty, but that doesnt mean what he said warrants sympathy. It doesnt. If he was banned, it was down to his own behaviour and no-one elses.

I hope to see him back on the forums again in the future.

While I don't believe he offers anything that I would recognize as being of value here, he is one of CS's "characters," and I can see he does provide entertainment value of the buffoon nature to some here. But somehow I think most of us can survive not hearing his weekly announcements about how much he's squatted or bench-pressed.

I think people are projecting when they say he has a "good heart." I used to believe the same thing, but when I asked myself why, all I could come up with is that I see him as an overgrown child and this image draws a kind of sympathy. Nothing about being an overgrown child, however, equates to having a good heart. It does draw on our protective/mothering instincts, though. (I don't believe he's mean-spirited or a bad person - but again, that doesn't equal having a good heart).

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Hi, A. I'm certainly not being inspired to delve into these issues by any particular individual responding or not responding to what I write. My principal motivation has been to get answers to questions and to reflect on the nature of my experiences and of romantic relationships in general. No one is egging me on or anything, is what I'm saying - at least not by anything posted here (the absence of communication has certainly spurred on some of the these threads - but not so much this one. It's a thread I would've wanted to write even if I were in a relationship. In fact, most of my recent threads are inherently interesting to me apart from any personal relationship problems).

A lot of things have dawned on me in the course of these writings; some genuine insights have been arrived at in that course. My only regret is that thus far I have not been able to eliminate the personal complaints.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Sorry if I've missed some posts I should've replied to - been a tad occupied since arriving at my folks' place in Colorado. Been chauffering my mom around (she lost a leg a few months back, and is no longer driving), and met some new people...

I've been wanting to say this for awhile: believe it or not, the main inspiration for this thread were some letters and a thread on the Irish forums wherein people described in what for me was a highly emotionally moving way being stuck in a kind of virtual relationship limbo.

Yes, as I wrote my original post, describing the essence of these letters and of Naturebest's thread on the Irish Forums, I began to strongly relate to the some of the stuff they were describing. I hadn't really thought of my own experience that way because it wasn't exclusively virtual, but as I thought about it more I realized I did have something in common with these individuals.

Of course, I do seem to have trouble not availing myself of any opportunity to vent some personal angst, and I did do that. I am not terribly proud of that; I do regard it as a weakness of character that needs to be - and will - be addressed. I might deserve some form of crucification if I'd seen anything insulting or critical, which I don't believe I did (except in response to one contemptuous remark).

I hope we can keep our eye on the relationship ball here - namely, the dangers and benefits of virtual relationships, with a special focus on those poor souls who have been or who are now stuck in Virtual Relationship Limbo.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

But you DID do that to me. And so effectively that people actually quoted you in speaking derogatorily about me here.

If I wish to discuss issues, I will try to keep those discussions as abstract as possible from now on without any specific reference to you.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Yeah. God, I only hope I can use all of this to write a bestseller someday.

Already have the title: Dead Couple Walking. Though "Virtually Love" has promise, too.

The story line in a nutshell: a beautiful couple very much in love descends into mutually assisted madness, since neither are able to take that tiny step backwards and the reality of what was happening.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

No, I don't blame you for my bad behavior, T. My bad behavior is solely my responsibility, just as your bad behavior is solely yours.



You've always disliked my being on CS, and it was wrong of me not to respect the discomfort my posting here caused you. Point one for you. As for asking me here? You did that once. Aside from that, you posted a character-assassination piece that offered vastly more detailed and damning information than anything I'd posted previous to that, and followed up with an unconscionably unethical thread implying that I was engaged in a criminal activity - a charge you knew was absurd. Both of these actions were intended to hurt me as much as humanly possible. Then when I offered a sincere, heartfelt apology, you ripped me a new one.

You had the moral high ground at one point. I acknowledge that. At that point all you had to say to me or post here that I was wrong to speak about us in public. No contest. You win. Everyone would know you were right and I was wrong. I would've retired from the field.

But now, with those posts, you surrendered the moral high ground. You're down in the dirt with Evil Jeff. Wasn't it bad enough that you learned to swear like a sailor from me? We're on even moral turf now, in my opinion.



So you're blaming me for your cruel behavior? You knew exactly what you were doing and how I'd react when you told me you might never see me again, just as you knew what you were doing and how I'd react when you told me months before "you're not my family."

We both know that "call me when you want to have a serious commitment" was a perfectly understandable response to your statement. It was made in the heat of the moment, as you well know, and you were no more obliged to treat it as an edict than any of the many similar comments we've made to each other over the years. In truth, you had your opportunity - the chance to dump me you'd been longing for during the previous months - and you seized on it. What I said was merely a pretext for your actions.



Seems a tad long-winded to me, especially from someone usually so economical with words. But sarcasm was and always will be one of your fortes. You could make me laugh even while hating you. You're probably the only person in the world who could make me do that.

Sorry about the whining. Someday I aspire to be as heartless as you are.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Did my long post drain all the words outta ya, Nance?

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

You are a very bright individual (and lady!), V.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Lucky your mom didn't say "build a *tent* over it"!

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

I should add that I believe age factors into this, too. As you get older, it can become more and more like an impossible yet powerfully desired dream to have one last shot at the fairytale/honeymoon romance - a last chance to feel the overriding passion, butterflies in your stomach, rose-colored glasses, and all those wonderful things - all the fixins and trapping of youth. To experience that once again is to be, I think, young again.

But jeez, it's a lot harder - even for someone in my relatively physically elite condition - to endure those hormones at fifty than at twenty, that's for sure. As a young man, I hardly noticed them. The roar of hormones flowed seamlessly into all my actions and feelings. Now they're like one of those emergency epinephrine injections that catapult you from zero to 90 in two seconds...at least that's how I experience "love hormones."

I used to call my recent love experience a "high." It was very much like that, and a much more distinct feeling than it was when I was younger (I mean I can feel it kick in harder and more clearly, and can distinguish it vividly from my normal state; couldn't do that at 20).

I wonder if research has ever been done on this subject?

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Insightful as always, Nan!

He claims not to use steroids. I find that VERY hard to believe. You can't build to 700 benches and 1200 squats without a LOT of help and tremendous amounts of hard work.

I feel guilty enough taking herbs and DHEA and antioxidants to get my weights "up" and keep them up.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

That vid did leave me with such a warm and fuzzy feeling, though...

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Heh. Nice evocative song, Irina.

You know they stole one melody directly (though unknowingly) from Coldplay? I mean, that part of their song - admittedly a minor part - is identical.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Thanks, Tom. I'm not always so fond of the poems that get posted here, but I really liked this one. Makes me feel not so alone somehow...

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

I dearly hope so, Curly. Thanks for your good wishes! Same back to you.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Yeah, the fantasy element is a difficult one to work with, I think, Curly. It's part of the whole virtual experience - so much wishful thinking and projecting going on in the absence of physical contact (though webcam probably helps keep it more real!) that can carry over into the real-life meeting.

You both may want so much a fairytale kind of romance. I know I did - and I believe my Virtual Love did as well. We played those roles to the hilt for a time...and then reality gradually reared its hideous head.

Of course that happens in non-virtual relationships as well. The honeymoon phase can have plenty of make-believe. But I think that a virtual beginning can even bring out that fantasy element more strongly. You spend so much time imagining the other person and extrapolating their characteristics that it seems likely that some of that will carry over into real life.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

You're not suggesting...? I am in a hyper-lonely and vulnerable state at the moment, you know!

Seriously, I really appreciate your support and kind words. I hope you two can find your bliss (and E can finally get that dream Canadian job he's been longing for!) and stroll lovingly off into the sunset together.

Jeez...almost makes me want to hate you guys! No...I love you, too.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Well, it might prove rather problematic to go out looking for an alien, M, considering the travel issues involved (mastering faster than light travel, antigravity, that kind of thing). Talk about a difficult long-distance relationship!

Though I suppose you could send out signals or something?

RE: Please either merge or divide Forum threads and Polls!

Being able to click directly back to All Threads would be great. I don't think I'd advocate separating them any more than they are at present (you can click directly to All Polls), because I have the same interest in polls as in "threads" (they are a variation of a "thread," really), and would have to click back and forth in any case, so that wouldn't save me any hassle.

Hey, Dag.

RE: Not as old as you say

That would be awfully weird. I suppose some people might be tired of partners in their age demographic and are looking for something more mature or something (say after having had an experience with a younger lady)?

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

How did you know I like playing beach volleyball??!! You must be psychic!

I just want to be clear on one point, M...you're waiting for an extraterrestrial?

Heck, for some of the elderly non-drivers hereabouts, sixty feet apart might prove an insurmountable challenge.

RE: What was one of the hardest things you've ever had to do or decisions you've ever had to make?

That seems like a courageous and very wise decision, C.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

J, I think it will come as no surprise to you that I was *extremely* envious. That was pretty much exactly the schedule I wanted. And had we followed my wise counsel, things would be very different right now, I'm certain. There simply is no point in dithering when you're in love.

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Ah, but you have no idea how long two hours can seem if you're stuck in slow traffic, F.

We had one eloquent poster here who mentioned that time, and I admit I kind of raised my eyebrows - but you can't judge all the circumstances by mere distance, I think. A lot of an LDR's success depends on the attitudes of those involved. If your potential partner regards a two-hour drive as a huge obstacle, it is in fact a huge obstacle.

I'd love to visit Australia, F. I've heard there's unusual numbers of good-looking women there relative to the population. Of course, I was told that by Australian women, so I'm not sure what to think...

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

Hi, Venus! But where would you draw the line, exactly? Location (only people within reasonable driving distance)? Number of emails/phone calls? Basic time of correspondence?

Or do you mean no online romances, period, that don't immediately involve physical contact?

The Long Goodbye: The Never-Ending Virtual Romantic Relationship

I like what you said, V, about these sites being "as or as bad you want to make them." They aren't bad, for instance, if you haven't bothered to post clear photos of yourself, and as a result no one pays attention. They aren't bad because you haven't given a good description of yourself - a description that shows your individuality. They're not bad because you make poor choice selections or indulge in bad strategy.

There is an undeniable bit of a "crapshoot" (if you'll forgive my lower Latin;-) in finding someone, so I think you need to make the odds as good as you can with some basic steps like the ones above. Luck favors the serious and diligent, as someone once said. Or maybe I just made it up. But I think it's probably true.

Honesty cuts both ways. Not only should you be honest with others, you need to be brutally honest with yourself. Do you really want this? What are you looking for? Have you flossed regularly? That kind of thing.

Smart and down-to-earth/cut to the basics analysis, V.