Ambrose2007 Forum Posts (8,881)

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Well, I think people do that all the time without being necessarily being controlling; I'd classify that more under the rubric of thoughtlessness.

By the way, wouldn't Ayn Rand say we should never place the wants of someone else above our own?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Damn it, Z, I need to learn to either lengthen my sentences or condense all my ponderings to four lines or less. Decisions, decisions... I need to put on my witch's thinking hat!

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Right, Venie. But the (million dollar) question is: For *what* reason? Hey, some peeps are uncomfortable with very the idea of a committed relationship, you know? (First time I've said "peeps." Does saying that make anyone else feel...unclean somehow? )

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

You look so proud of yourself, F. Am I the only one who wants to reach out and...turn the photo around?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

There's a regularly scheduled program?

Oh yeah - my angst! How could I have forgotten??

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Yeah, I hear ya, Nance. But there is a sort of grey area, too. What if your simple disapproval is considered to be punishment? For example, you appear down or upset after you fail in your persuasion. What does one owe one's partner under these circumstances? And what does she or he owe you?

RE: Thoughts on LD relationships

Sorry, Life. I guess I confused you with another CS lady from your country who traveled to Scandinavia (Norway?) and married him (if memory serves).

Glad you didn't catch a cold.

RE: Thoughts on LD relationships

Sadly, there are those caught up in a never-ending LDR, A, kind of like that "Cat's in the Cradle" song: "We're going to get together, soon...gonna have a great time, soon..."

You and the Grizz were wise, Bo. I feel for those not so fortunate, who are stuck in LDR Purgatory.

RE: Thoughts on LD relationships

I always wondered what happened with your own LDR, Life. I even tried to write you about it, but was blocked (because of location, occupation, and personality )

RE: Three Words - Keep One Of Them #5

Biblical being questionable...

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Thanks, Bro'. I'll try not to. I even opened the blinds today for the first time in ages...The Light! The Light! But with sunglasses I managed ok.

RE: A dilemma

Man, this poor girl reminds me of me (at her age, and even now a bit) - Zeus help her!

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Often enough to never think of "tongue in cheek" in quite the same way again, A. (How witty would it be to say something "tongue-on-brow," I wonder? I suppose Harry knows. )

Seriously, my dreams are often novelisk (if that's a word) - long, epic story lines that are generally puzzling but bristling with allegorical meaning. Lately I keep having this recurring dream about meeting a dark-haired lady at her house but no one's there. I walk around inside and can sense her presence in all her house items (as well as her pet cats!), and sometimes I think I hear approaching footsteps, but the door never opens. The cats, thankfully, do not in any way groom their brows.

Would that qualify as demented, A?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Late morning, just before lunch, one of Lin Chi’s monks comes up to him half-crazed, out of his mind with ecstasy, babbling about Buddha. Says he’s seen him. Says he was just walking down the road when suddenly: Buddhamind. Enlightenment. Nirvana. The big payoff. The monk can’t stop talking about it. Lin Chi strikes a match, lights his pipe, takes a long drag. Leaves the monk hanging, waiting for his reward. Instead, Lin Chi blows a cloud of smoke, reaches out, and smacks him.

“You meet the Buddha on the road,” Lin Chi says, “kill him.”

I've always liked this story, but I'm not sure I truly appreciated it until now.

But who or what the heck is "Erinyes," and why is she/he/it hounding me?

Chris, seriously, I think you're trying to help, and I do appreciate that.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Yeah. Just another tortured "man-soul" (like those poor hapless dudes in the bar who still to this day have your poetry ringing like the bells of perdition in their ears)!

Seriously, I have this image of some nerdy guy sitting at a bar, and all the girls pointedly ignoring him. Then, real casual-like, his tongue slips out...and keeps slipping out...until it reaches his eyebrows and lightly grooms them. At which point every girl in the bar begins gravitating toward him...

Or was it all just a demented dream I had last night?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Hey, you're talking about my dear old grandmother there, Grizz (she did that when I mouthed off)! She was a saint, you know?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Simpler needs??!!??

Oh, god...just when I'd managed to bury that horrific image deep into my subconscious (where it will no doubt continue to do irreparable damage to my psyche)!

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Why do I think this man won't be able to get out of this by merely reaching into his nose?

You know a man is being controlled when he washes your dishes.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

A-HA! Calling me "sir" to butter me up, then trying to get me to see things your way! That's how it all starts, I think...

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Heh - well some of us relax in different ways, that's for sure.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Yeah, I guess we're only...six?...hours apart? Well, I hope you get nice and relaxed and rest well. And no, I'm not trying to control or manipulate you into that, A.

By the way, exactly what is your technique for eating ice cream or cereal?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Very perceptive point, Grizz. I believe Abagail is trying to make me think the morning's good and therefore control my most innermost emotional states!

I'm onto your nefarious games, young lady! Being cheerful this morning is my choice and my choice alone!

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Top of the morning to you, Abagail. Shall I take this to mean you've mastered our time zone (or are now living in it vicariously?)?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

A controlling person, according to Patricia Evans, author of Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control you, is someone who is terrified of feeling separate – a person who cannot handle the idea of his or her mate being a separate person:

"Since Controllers don't feel separate, they are certain that the person they act against is responsible for their behavior: 'You make me do it,' or 'I did it because you ____.' By denying their separateness, they give away their own autonomy, pretend that they have no choice, and blame others for their behavior. And, most crucially, they give testimony to their condition: that of being plugged in and powerless. They fear separateness more than their loss of the freedom to choose. In effect, they define themselves as powerless. And, since they do not recognize the Witness's individuality, indeed, personhood, they do not recognize the effects of their behavior."

The controlling individual's partner is, then, to some degree a pretend person – a construct designed to make the controller feel secure. The controller attaches, in effect, to a chimera of his partner. Unfortunately, the real person – what Evans calls the "authentic person" – will deviate frequently from the controller's fantasy person. The controller must then attempt to compel the authentic person to act more like the chimera.

The more the real person deviates from the fantasy person, the more anxious and threatened the controller feels. The more anxious, the more controlling the her or she becomes...

I think this has some application to your "Ice Cream Dictator," Dobe.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Thanks, Dobe, for sharing that. What you're describing with the first dudes sounds like a classic case of a controlling person. I would assume there were many other examples? I would expect that wanting you to eat your ice cream differently or to give up working with Dobermans would be the tip of ice berg?

I think your husband's Silent Treatment was probably a manipulative form of control - attempting to manipulate you into not arguing/fighting with him by punishing you for that. John Gray (author of Men are From Mars...) writes that men need to "withdraw into their cave" when they feel bad or have problems they wish to solve, but I doubt that applies here. But the predictable regularity of the response - you say something he or she doesn't like, and automatically you won't hear from them for a day or more - makes the punishment aspect clear, I think. A non-manipulative method would've been for him to tell you what you said or did that bothered him. But it's likely that he didn't feel he could make a rational case for his feelings, so he simply surrendered to his anger and tried to hurt you.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

True, what you wrote didn't specifically mention desires. Basically it's counseling that you cease to be human, since all human beings expect stuff and every human seeks things and all human beings lie, so it's utterly useless - if not self-destructive - as a piece of advice.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

How many of me, exactly, are there?? But, uh, thanks, A.

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Do turtles have wings?

When Do Attempts At Persuasion Become Controlling and Manipulative?

Those poor, tortured men-souls! I bet they still wake up screaming in the middle of the night!