'Beloved Ray I wasn't expecting anyhting less from you hun; you hate people, of course violence will be your first instinct, but it isn't always the best solution, or by far the only way to go; I might react myself violently due to fear, it's normal, but is it moral to kill? Sure there is a good reason for it, it's called instinct, wanting to survive;
Btw, it isn't women who think like me causing the crime rate to increase anywhere; it is the godless world we live in; you might want to call it lack of morals, since you are comfortable with that, I think;
One last thing from this ignorant dogmatic lady, who does believe in God and the Bible; the ultimate dillema of "dogma" is God's forgiveness of our sins, when we choose to acknowledge and honor him.' - Constanza
Wise one . . . if all religions disappeared from the earth tomorrow and the laws remained, what do you think would happen?
But, if all the laws disappeared from the world tomorrow, and religion remained, what do you think would happen?
AN INCREASING CRIME RATE HAS TO DO WITH LAW!!!!!!!!!!!
Moral Absolutism is nonsense!
Did you know that Moses murders an Egyptian in Exodus for beating a Hebrew and burieS him in the sand when no one is looking . . .
I have read many Religious works, Constanza. Have you read the Koran? The Upanishads? The Law Code of Manu? Did you know The Law Code Manu with its moral absolutes still oppresses women today?
Don’t worry dear ole dear. . .
I am ahead of you.
And I don't hate people, I hate people who are stubborn to the facts!!!
The Bible is a monotheistic account of a murderous rabble of Jews led by the murderer Moses after they were kicked out of Egypt. They were such a rabble of animals they had to be told how to dig holes out of their camps to crap in . . .
In the meantime Egypt was the greatest and most orderly civilization the world had ever seen, and still amazes it today.
The murderous rabble of Jews are then led to the their chosen Land by God to murder his Son . . .
'Hey, Ray It's always nice to see someone raise actual substantive philosophic issues here.
For those who believe in "moral absolutes," I would ask one thing: Are the rules that we govern ourselves with means to an end - or the end in itself? The latter - held by such absolutists - is logically absurd, a classic case of placing the horse before the cart.
Remember the woman who healed by her very faith in him when she only touched his garment and it sufficed? What about the sinner who was crucified next to him and asked God's forgiveness?
Bnatural, you are a smart man, please.' - Constanza
Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’?
Do you believe in moral absolutism? [for the dullard: pure objective grounds for morality? For the COMPLETE fool: moral directives that remain unalterable no matter what the circumstance?
I.e. Turn the other cheek?: The greatest moral directive to give as an example of the problem of moral absolutism . . .
Another is: thou shall not kill. Supposing you are being killed? Or someone is trying to kill your mother and it is a question of you stopping them by wounding them, and possibly fatally . . . Should you, believing that these are moral ABSOLUTES, allow yourself to be killed, your mother to be killed (your nation to be attacked???). . . Because: Thou Shall Not Kill?
Can killing be justified, and if it can - where can it?
There is a great problem in the sphere of Morality and Ethics: it is the quest for objective grounds for morality . . .
The most famous work in moral philosophy is known as: ‘Groundwork For The Metaphysics of Morals’ . Morality rests on an illusion of objectivity. On an illusion of ABSOLUTISM.
People take moral directives as unconditional absolutes, which is like accepting: ‘Thou Shall always wear thy seatbelt while thy vehicle is in motion . . .even when thine vehicle is about to burst into a fireball and go over a cliff, for it is STILL in motion . . .’
I hate people.
I was on a thread a while ago where I brought up this issue, especially in relation to ‘Thou Shall not Kill‘, to which I replied, thou shall not kill . . . UNLESS . . .
thou art being KILLED.
To which some wise person whom I will not name, said: what about turn the other cheek?
[I believe Bnatural rather wryly replied: you mean DEAD cheek?]
What are your opinions on these moral issues? . . .
Are there moral absolutes? WHAT are they if there ARE?
I thank you, and despise you, in advance . . . for your pitiful answers.
Pessimism is not defeatism, Aries. A lot of people think it is. It is a darker view of life, a view of what is positive about what is negative.
Pessimism doesn't say there's no point - that's defeatism.
An optimist buys a lottery ticket and says: 'I've got the same chance of winning as being struck by lightening. The pessimist says :You're lucky the odds aren't the other way around and you don't have as much chance of being struck by lightening as loosing.'
Or, as I said to a friend the other day who was lamenting over the chances of ever winning the lottery. I said: If you've got as much chance of loosing as everyone else, that means you've got as much chance of winning. And HE's an optimist.
My friend, pessimism is not defeatism. It is a dark view of reality, often negative: with positive results.
The statement: 'every evening we are poorer by a day', is pessimistic. Knowing it, acknowledging it in your heart, mind and soul makes you live each day to the full as opposed to piss it away.
That is the positive outcome of pessimism.
Nothing lasts. We are all born with a death penalty and we buy the poverty of old age with the wealth of youth.
Make the most of life, I have never wasted a day and that is the positive outcome of my pessimism. I regret nothing, would change nothing.
Again, B, I've got a problem with the 'mentality' of hope - not hope itself, per se.
Hope can be a dangerous thing.
The construction or destruction of the world is up to US. The safety of our families when they get on board a plane is up to the people, the pilots, the safety inspectors, the security, the air traffic control, the proficiency of the system etc
Hope, prayers, those are things for people who don't realise that WE ARE THE HOPE!!!
Nay!
We are the ONLY hope!
. . . . . . . . . . .
Ray/World-Spirit [brief dialogue]
World-Spirit: You should pray to God that your family is safe like everyone else.
Ray: Why? Will he make sure my family is safe if 'I' don't make sure?
World-spirit: No.
Ray: When then tell him to stay out of the way while I do!!!!
Thank you. I have never actually wanted people to agree with my posts; in point of fact, I have always tried to get them to do the opposite - and some of the more perceptive people on CS have noticed this. I am trying to PUSH people to expand on their ideas or assertions, to show how much more there is to consider - and then bring it out in the open for our/their/my consideration. I believe in infinite self-progression. That we meet people and by meeting them we mutually benefit – we progress. Our world-view alters, is modified, or reaffirmed. All I have ever wanted is for people to consider my ideas in light of their world-view. And to show them that the worst thing in the world is a fixed world-view!
What I really attack as 'optimism' is in fact more accurately called 'optimism-bias' (being unrealistically optimistic in life). Pessimism allows one to have insights into very dark areas of existence. One also expects the worst and is prepared for it, seldom surprised by it – sort of: forewarned forearmed. As long as you have the essence of Christ in your heart, morally you cannot go wrong. Morally, I say! Sounds like you have a good philosophical approach to life, Detente.
I wish you infinite self-progression (so keep an open mind)!!!
You were created to be happy? Like the kids in Africa who are born to suckle a milkless teat while flies drink the fluids out of their eyes and their carcasses litter the land to be pecked at by hunch-backed vultures and then their pecked remains fought over by snarling scavengers? YOU were created to be happy in this world? All people who think like you will feel huge depression over the most meagre things in their life. The selfish seek happiness in a world of human misery! I am ahead of you. Life is a problem we all have to solve. The aim of life is not happiness, it is fulfilment of one's life-mission. One's life AIM. And that is NOT happiness! If I exist to be happy, if I was MADE to be happy - then the HELL with being happy. I refuse to be happy, and never have been happy – and never WILL be happy . . . In such a world! I hope you find the happiness for which you believe you were created, because those children in Africa . . . I don't believe they were created for happiness. But I will tell you one thing, they were created by two people who thought THEY were created for happiness, or that they could have it. That they SHOULD have it. That they EXIST for it. You were not created to be happy in such a world. I am ahead of you.
I apologise for the bitterness of this post, but I despise people like you. People who think they were created to be happy.
First of all, I reckon the pearly gates aren't that pearly. And, no, I have no hope that when I wake up tomorrow it will be a better day [only a fool HOPES for that]. I work harder each day for a better tomorrow to wake up to. The harder I work, the more luck I seem to have. Hope is for the hopeless. And there is a strength of pessimism you optimists will never know. Pessimism is not, as is commonly thought, defeatism. There is a pessimism of strength that endures far beyond the point where optimism has already curled itself up into a foetal ball in despair. Don't worry, I am ahead of you.
EastbayRay Forum Posts (781)
Why be moral? What is meant by ‘right’, ‘wrong’, ‘good’ and ‘value’?
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