BnaturAl Forum Posts (6,811)

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

anything is possible charlos, not everything is probable. I have always thought that it is bigger than just the big bang. For energy to have always been, many many many things would have happened infinitely. We're just a space in time which may or may not eat itself, just like the infinity symbol does. We're regenerative locusts of desire.


Bouncing meme .. where does this go? Not alternate universes?

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

What sort of religious freedom has the legacy of death or convert, the legacy of this is the only god or go to hell? Seriously buddy, thats a long long way from any freedom I'm aware of.

It may well be liberals who want this silly faery tale and its legacy to end.

I think you misunderstood as well... The US powermongers (right wing christian bulletheads) isn't "protecting" Isreal. They are making sure that everyone is in their place for the Rapture, so that they can claim the spoils and the power of the ONE and only god. They dont care how many or who dies to get there either. They are protecting no one but their own interests in power and control.

Furthering christianity is a numbers game, the more you have the bigger you look to your opposition, the more likely the opposition will submit and or not go to war with you.
If you are one of their numbers, you are one of their soldiers. You will be counted by both christian leaders and by their opposition.

Seriously the Romans wrote the bible, invented christ and used it well in creating their empire. That legacy still contiunues in Roman christianity for supremacy. You really want to think about what it is you support in buying into gods and christs that they and you have never shown proof of; because there is none. So much death and destruction over something unproven. The Romans who come up with this christ stuff are probably laughing in their graves that is still ruling what people think and do 2 thousand years later.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

ok .. then ....


You'd want to delve into consciousness structure and perhaps memes and temes as well then.

Consciousness really in short is simply "being aware". Consciousness is really a matter of being "tuned in". We have closer consciousness connections to people we are close to of course and that is proven in "sensing" in round about feelings that something is going on with a relative or S.O.

This doesn't preclude us from tuning in to other things. Trust me you can evoke Peter Pan if you tune in enough and get answers from him as well (or was it her ) So, lets for simplicity's sake call it wireless human communications. If you said to yourself " ok HL where can I be of help to someone today?" Your conscious mind and sub conscious mind will confer with each other, consult the collective energy consciousness (that is people who are CONSCIOUS) and lead you there via a conference call.

either that or your drugs are really good (were? ) and I want some

energy isnt just love HL, it is all that energy does, and sometimes energy is pretty destructive. The fact that humans have learned to harness it (energy) and use it for unwarranted and unnecessary destruction is appauling, and calling it religion and god, well thats like turning the knife in the heart of wisdom ... sheeeees

Energy doesn't have feelings, it has no allegiances to anything or anyone, it's not good or bad, it is good and bad, its only master is its own laws. E=mc2, Newtons laws of motion, gravity, magnetism, etc., all laws energy

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

The experience is not the issue, calling it christ or god is. (especially when the results of religious gods and christs is, war, mayhem, murder, ostiscising and more, self righteous god ownership) It is pure unadulterated, addictive faith you cannot substantiate, that mindlessly furthers that same stupid murder and conversion.

One commandment is thou shalt not murder! That means not one single solitary person should be dead for christianity!!! Yet there are over 12 billion dead because of it!!! This is not about personal experience HL, it is about collective addiction to power mongering psychobabble that still justifies the hippocracy it spouts but does not follow.

Call it "buddha" ( I really dont care what name you give it as long as it doesn't perpetuate the Roman control mechanisms) and not christ and you may have finally understood the incidious nature of what calling "that experience" christ has done is in this world. This you should understand. If you dont then you havent been paying attention to history, let alone what is still going on this day.

That experience is not christ, HL ... it is just a physiological experience of energy, instigated by your thoughts. Seriously. You can be in awe all you want, that doesn't make it god, let alone christ. really, I know this experience, Budhists know it, Muslims know it, scientoligists know it .... why is there a need to name it something that fosters and justifies hate and conversion by death?. Buddhists know the experience, they won't fight about it. Seriously christ is no more special than any other experience by any name, by any other religion. Drop the religious curtain and that experience gets named my "self".

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

youre still not not doing it



not not, not not



try to follow along, really, I'm leaving giant bread crumbs for you.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

then perhaps I am misinformed. You use the Torah? (the OT yes?) I am told by jews that this book has no christ, it only has a "saviour", that any reference of a christ is "interpreted" as such.

The OT is actually closer to oldest of stories, back as far as Sumar, which also coincides with jewish calander dating. It is no more proof of any saviours though.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

you just used a double negative making your own attempted point mute, if not silly. It in fact proves my point ... because it says (removing the double negs) If we should react to things which are true why are defending, blah blah

you shouldn't not do that because the right way isn't not mine.

Hopefully you get it now.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

I agree; but, the bible is not the only book that speaks of this light, energy and spirit. Man has had this "thought" since thebeginning of time, (that we know of 6000yrs) it is really nothing new, no new truths, nor more or less inspiring now than it ever has been. That's why people write about it! That doesn't by any logical extension follow to mean its god or any part there of. The possibilites are too endless to settle on any one, especially one that is unsubstantiated. At this point energy is energy the same as iron is iron, not god.



search all you want, I would encourage it. Settling on an answer that defies proof; however, is foolhardy and religious gods are proof of that foolhardiness.


true, science has confirmed it and has called it energy, not god. Really, I have the same thoughts as you're posting; because it does have so many of the things that a "god" is said to be, it is just illogical to leap to renaming it god even as close as it is by definition.



Alright, Walter Thirring, a quantum knucklehead its fun stuff to think about, great to postulate on, even create theories over; but, LIVING AS IF IT WERE TRUE is a big waste of time if not energy.

You would get along great with Tony (stressfree)


Quantum knuckleheads also tend to believe in gods, being more right brained than logical science finds acceptable. On the other hand, I'm not saying we dont need imaginative people, because we do, they are often the impetus to discovery. Just don't behave as it it is real until it is .....and quantum mumbo jumbo is a very long way from reality.

Believing that enegry is 'predestiny' and god directed or orchestrated is a giant leap my man. It has holes.

Ever read up on memes, temes? Close to quantum in aspects but quantifiable.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

I guess some jews have already converted

I just posted it.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

Should anything happen to remove Israel from the Middle East during the lifetimes of these people, then the expected Great Tribulation will have to be postponed, probably for centuries, until another State of Israel is established. The appearance of the State of Israel in 1948 would then turn out to have been an eschatologically irrelevant political event.

Should Israel ever be "pushed into the sea," these people will have to face what the rest of us began facing early in life: the prospect of our statistically inescapable physical death.... This belief in death-free living is the rarely stated psychological motivation behind American fundamentalism's unwavering support of the State of Israel.

... the Church Age will end with the Rapture of living saints into heaven. The millennial age, which will be marked by Christ's bodily presence, will not be a church age, but will be a restored Davidic kingdom. It will even involve the restoration of the Temple sacrifices – as memorials, however, not as redemptive sacrifices. As Scofield writes in one of his notes, "Doubtless these offerings will be memorial, looking back to the cross. . . ." (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 890n).

TIMING THE GREAT ESCAPE

According to Scofield's note to I Corinthians 15:52, the first resurrection of the dead will accompany the death-free translation of living Christians into their eternal condition. He writes:

The "first resurrection," that "unto life," will occur at the second coming of Christ (I Cor. 15. 23), the saints of the O.T. and church ages meeting Him in the air. . . . The bodies of living believers will, at the same time, be instantly changed (I Cor. 15. 52–53; Phil. 3. 20–21). This "change" of the living, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ, is called "the redemption of the body" (Rom. 8. 23; Eph. 1. 13, 14).

The crucial question is this: When will this event take place? It will take place before the beginning of the Great Tribulation, which will last three and a half years. In his note to Revelation 7:14, Scofield writes regarding the duration of the Great Tribulation, . . .

The great tribulation is immediately followed by the return of Christ in glory, and all the events associated therewith (

But how long before the 42-month Great Tribulation begins will the invisible second coming take place, the one that allows Christians to avoid death and the grave? Exactly 42 months. This is because this coming dispensation, according to dispensationalists, is the fulfillment of the prophecy of the seventieth week of Daniel (Dan. 9:24), a week of seven years. Scofield's note says:

When the Church-age will end, and the seventieth week begin, is nowhere revealed. Its duration can be but seven years. (

Ever since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948, fundamentalists have lost their reticence in dating the end of the Church Age. They have rejoiced in the presumably fast-approaching fulfillment of Bible prophecy during which, in Scofield's words, "the people of God who will have returned to Palestine in unbelief." Why such rejoicing? Because, if a Christian can make it to the day, exactly three and a half years before this fulfillment takes place, he will not suffer death.

This is why fundamentalists send money to Jewish organizations that bring Russian Jews to the State of Israel. They want to speed up the process. One of these programs, "On Wings of Eagles," is sponsored by Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein's International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. In 2002, he joined with Ralph Reed, the former political technician for Pat Robertson's grass-roots political training organization, Christian Coalition, to create Stand for Israel. Reed today is Chairman of the Georgia Republican Party.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

Next and this is creepy;



"BETTER THEM THAN US!"

What is rarely discussed publicly by Jews or fundamentalists is the fundamentalists' view of the looming cost to Israelis for their return to Palestine. Fundamentalists believe that the Great Tribulation will wipe out two-thirds of the Jews in Israel. Hence, to encourage their return to the State of Israel is to encourage their destruction.

John Walvoord, who died in 2002, served for three decades as the president of Dallas Theological Seminary, the largest and best-known dispensational seminary (founded, 1924). He was the author of numerous books, both academic and popular, on dispensational prophecy. He taught Hal Lindsey, who attended Dallas Seminary. Here is his assessment of the future of Israelis.

The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: "And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried" (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah's prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah. (John F. Walvoord, Israel in Prophecy [Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1988], p. 108.

Nothing will be done by Christians to save Israel's Jews from this disaster, for all of the Christians will have been removed from this world three and a half years prior to the beginning of this 42-month period of tribulation. The only Christians present at that time will be recent converts to the faith, who had been left behind as non-believers at the time of the Rapture.

Therefore, in order for most of today's Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement's political support for the State of Israel.

It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West. If Israel were removed militarily from history prior to the Rapture, then the strongest case for Christians' imminent escape from death would have to be abandoned. This would mean the indefinite delay of the Rapture. The fundamentalist movement thrives on the doctrine of the imminent Rapture, not the indefinitely postponed Rapture.

Every time you hear the phrase, "Jesus is coming back soon," you should mentally add, "and two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will be dead in `soon plus 84 months.'" Fundamentalists really do believe that they probably will not die physically, but to secure this faith prophetically, they must accept the doctrine of an inevitable future holocaust....

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

paganism is not in the list, but neo paganism is? when did this happen? or is it merely a change in terminology.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

Well you did say you were jewish yes? It is not in the Torah. Actaully jesus isnt in the torah either, which ought to be a clue to christians who think their babble is the the one book of all books even though the romans and josephus (a jew turned roman) were instrumental in its construction.

You might want to google the Rapture ... if you're jewish, I am sure you'd be quite interested in what the right wing christians have planned for Isreal and likely not too far in the future... the US isn't in Iraq for nothing.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

it doesn't make any sense, its enabling an addictive behavior (physical, emotional dependance on something that is unsubstantiated)

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

then you would not feel "belittled" but betrayed, insulted, angered, maybe even ignorant or some other feeling. It is only the truth that hurts.



Growth comes from knowledge about life, not from avoiding what is real, ya? If you want to stick your hand in the fire and someone who cares doesn't tell you the consequences; then, that person would be complicit in your injury. Worse if they don't stop you from consistently doing it.



In normalcy I would agree, however, when a pervasive addiction to a delusion is present other methods need to be used. That includes all addictions, drugs, alcohol, religion etc .. all things that have no basis in fact for thinking ( much less behaving like) there is a need for them.

This too (being broken form addiction) may then be part of their journey, otherwise there would be no one in AA to help others if they thought as you suggest, to just let them be as they are, to remain addicted ... wouldn't make sense would it.

I understand the sentiment HL, I just think it is illogical and misplaced in this case. Sentiment is the banner of enabling addictive behavior.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

I hate to close cases that still require evidence, though it is indeed omnipresent and as close to the properties of god-ness as are scientifically available. It's predictable but has no intent and for most people god has intent. I dont think any god-ness does but that is JMO

case still open.. for me.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

wizard


its mass/energy, -always always will be, cannot be destroyed .. yada yada , grade 9 physics ... not taught by a wizard though. up an atom!

RE: is so bad call someone here dear?

You call everybody darling
And everybody calls you darling too
You don't mean what you're saying
It's just a game you're playing.

But you'll find out that I can play the game as well as you
If you call everybody darling
then love won't come a knocking at your door
And as the years go by you'll sit and wonder why
Nobody calls you darling anymore.

You call everybody darling
And everybody calls you darling too
You don't mean what you're saying
It's just a game you're playing.

Nobody calls you darling anymore...


____________

I tend to avoid people who hardly know you use terms of endearment when endearment grows from something more than words can explain. People use these terms far too loosely and out of place these days baby!

RE: tell me...

I see the 'Tell Show Me' thread becoming a daily thing here

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

technically, You cant feel belittled if there isn't some truth to it

Lots of people call me names or try to belittle me, but there's no truth to it, so it doesn't even become an issue for me; because truth creates feeling.

The fact is that the results of religion and god belief is insane, considering the defintiion of insane.

There's plenty to prove it is insane and very little if any to validate any sanity in it. :cool

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

There are approximately 7.5 million jews in Isreal (and just in Isreal) The Rapture calls for 2/3 of them to be extinguished for "not converting to a christian god". Do the math. and that includes men women and children.

The 12 billion is a conservative figure based on inquistions in europe, slaughterings in rome and the middle east, slaughtering in south america, slaughterings in central america, slaughterings in africa, slaughterings in north america, the slaughter of witches and pagans ... then add the number of wars that have been instigated by religions.

As for present day deaths at the hand of god a simple search will confirm what christianity is still doing to people to this very day in many parts of the world. That includes killing people who refuse to convert. If christianity was about living and letting live there would be 0 deaths.

Its a very conservative estimate because even I dont recall all the wars and inquisitons that christians have wraught on this planet but I'm sure you have google and some math skills. I suspect the figure is much much higher.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

christianity is responsible for more than 12 billion deaths on this planet and they are still happening and they plan at least 5 million more in Isreal if they pull off their rapture crap .... that is not letting others live by any stretch of the imagination.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

almost 6000 yrs Cro and still we havent crawled out from under the illogical selfish nature of man's gods.

Think about where we would be in this universe if our attention and resources had actually been spent on discovery.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

I wonder if she even noticed.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

then there would have been no need to quote the oringinal OP would there?, but you did and you mentioned bashing.... Nice little dance .... it spells denial.



no reference here, have no idea where you are with this. The OP? There is a question of sanity as regards the citing you note, being that good sense results in good behavior. Considering what god and religion has caused on this planet, most of the wars by the way, including the US presence in Iraq, then there is definitely a question of good sense . (sanity in using religion and god)



ok all you need is justification, I get it.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

If 6 thousand years of subjugative religion and all their wars, destruction and inquistions and crap they are still doing to this day is your offering of proof of sanity, then please call me insane.

I think you've just proven how insane religion and unproven belief really is.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

but you told him he was more insane in the same post

part of the definition of sane is "having or showing reason, sound judgment, or good sense: sane advice. "

... so I'm not sure sanity isn't in question here in more cases than appear obvious.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

Its an hypothesis not based on substantive facts and there's plenty of people publishing theories (unproven) simply as a matter of personal income. Time Mag needs stuff to print and won't validate before they do, so as long as it's well written, plays on the thought process of humans or evokes some emotional response they will print it.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

peewee herman had a lot of





energy cannot be created or destroyed, it always was, always will be. E=mc2 ... matter and enegry have always been. you can only void checks.



Energy makes everything, simple, concise predictable chaotic design. Some call life an evolution. Its just action reaction. Now go to sleep and recharge your atoms.

RE: Is it Sane to Believe?

peewee herman had



energy cannot be created or destryed, it always was, always will be. E=mc2 ... matter and enegry have always been. you can only void checks.


Did a God or Gods create the universe out of nothing?

Now, where did God come from?

If God is a designer, then who designed God?

They say an airplane or anything else had a designer. And that was man. Then they say that nature and humans had to have a designer, because something can't come from nothing, or evolve without a design.

Then we have to ask the question, who designed God?

Are we the dreams and creation of a God or Gods?

Or are the Gods and God the dreams and creation of human beings and their illusory minds?

Thoughts?

energy makes everything, simple, concise predictable chaotic design. Some call evolution. Its just action reaction. now go to sleep.