The stages where windows close on being able significantly change the childs behavior seem also to be relative to the presence of stem cells. Plentyful at birth, they are body building information cells.. When the cells begin to lesson in amounts, over age as most body structure has been achieved, ...the harder it is to reprogram the child.
Possible Harry, perhaps there needs to be like spark to light fire kind of thing. It does have to happen preferrably at birth though, because after is more difficult to reach the child.
I think we have all had those ;connections' ..I guess we have them with whom ever we establish a physical connection though by sight, or touch etc... . SO I wonder if the dog and girl had a connection?
Actaully an unchecked dog or ne who deosn't see a pack leader aound, whether its a dog or a human, then it will be a more dominant aggressive dog, attempting to be pack leader and succeeding because they pretty much control the humans... many many cases of that, because humans by and large dont know how to be a pack leader, most dogs are in better state of mind when there is a pack leader, human owners dont know that for the most part.
They read kicks as instruction, as disipline Tony, so if your going to be doing that, make sure there's a lesson, otherwise the dog is confused as to what to learn. He would become submissive rather than calm ....and submissive is out of balance state in the dog world.
Also puzzling, I forgot to say ... how did the dog know to present breast milk, isnt lactation a function of giving birth to pups, not to a child. How is that the dog lactated without normal pregnancy genetic stimulii? very puzzling.
hopefully lactation is the right word... usually I'm right there on breast words
I dunno, there are stories of people eating people so... I know what youre saying, swithcing environments.
A documented case of a russian girl states that the dogs, went out and got food for the child. Strange huh? She even sucked from the dog's teets as well. Nurturing beyond the intial breast milk offering. You don't see that when dogs are domesticated perhaps because the food is supplied.
Bu this is something we learned through behavior as well me thinks. At some point in our evolution, some human realised they could 'alter' or affect another's behavior beyond normal reaction to survival instincts.
This why I suggested there may be a consciousness survival component in us that is far from genetic. Spirit me thinks, but we've ruled out that there is a universal consciouness or the child would have responded to it, so is spirit universal or individual for all living things?..
I'm inclined to think there is very little that is ingrained, innate or inherent in us DK, aside from basic survival needs, the rest appears to be behavioral indicators.
The species thing has me puzzled though. Dogs, wolves, animals, all have some of the same reactionary behaviors like depression and calm state etc.
The fight, flight, avoid, submit scenorio and their attendant psychological conditions seem to be universal in the animal kingdom, yet the ability to make changes to those conditions rests only with humans, no other species.
Perhaps psychological or consciouness survival is unique to us?
the dog vs human raising is interesting . Dog behavior does emulate base human behavior though. The affects of things like trauma and depression, calmness, fears, are all both seen in dogs and humans.
nope its why religion and power are in politics. All you have to do is prove god, or at least his illegitimate son all of a sudden all the christian killing and genocide becomes 'gods' desire not theirs... You can't rule a world unless you can be 'unaccountable' .. the god factor removes accountabilty, god takes the blame , so the ruler killing you, well he is just doing gods work ...
I thought you read the bible j/k
It will be interesting if Obama gets to pull the US out of Iraq ... I'm betting it doesn't happen, or they just move base next door to afghanistan
I could be wrong hugz (and we both know that never happens ) but what I have come across from reading up on kanine behavior is that a pack leader rises. Even if there are unstable dogs in the pack, the leader will instigate attacks to gain submissive behavior in that dog and the rest of the pack will assist in helping the pack leader. Eventually they all return to a calm state, that same state they can be in if the human knows how to be "like" a pack leader.
ok, I gotcha on the 'abnormal' folk with genetic aberrations. I was wondering though if "feeling compassion" for others isnt a selective process. For example one person I might feel compassion for, you might feel dispassionate about So, is compassion ingrained or brought about by a need to feel it for certain people by way of 'feelings' for them.
ok, I gotcha on the 'abnormal' folk with genetic aberrations. I was wondering though if "feeling compassion" for others isnt a selective process. For example one person I might feel compassion for, you might feel dispassionate about So, is compassion ingrained or brought about by a need to feel it for certain people by way of 'feelings' for them.
check out my thread page 4 ... there are 3 separate posts by Skybow ... I was asking if anyone was aware of why the US was really protecting Isreal. They're not btw..
If they manage to pull it off HL, the new world order will be complete, Belief may become secondary to coercion.
Actually they can do better than halograms, plastic surgery, sighitngs, well trained godspeak, TV appearances... the psycho babble prelude is already there ... the lemmings will lap it up.. Christians will be unsuffereable.
The guys who created most of the hoopla around the 2012 calander are supisiciously linked to the same guys who brought us all the 911 hoopla,the terrorist hoopla etc.
As a scientific find its amazing and translating the glyphs is well done.
However like Stitchin and his work on the Sumerian cuniforms, the translations are great, but when these guys start filling in empty space that aren't there with there conjecture, I tend to stop reading.
One thing I learned beng an artist, was that people always read things into my work that never entered my mind when I did the work. People like to make their own things up. I was just .... painting cuz I like to.
Imagine a creative type cave man/woman one day feeling the urge to scratch an elk on the cave wall. He just found a new sharp rock, so he wants to use it right away...Thousands of years later along comes this archeology guy who stares at it and starts up some mind boggling theory about cave men idolizing elk.
I'm tellin ya, he was just feeling creative and wanted something to do!! It was just a farkin elk to him!!
Apparently these children weren't thinking before being found. That in itself could say a lot. Seems to mean that we don't think unless we are encouraged to. (not pointing any fingers ) Alternatively we think on demand as it were. At least thats how it appears to me.
Isn't conscience a behavioral social construct? I wonder if cats feel bad after eating a mouse?
You're not tying conscience to genetics are you hugz? I tend to think of these as separate entities myself. Genes carry physical code; but youre suggesting they also carry conscience a nd moral code?
right and wrong ... another implication of this with so many of argueing that one person's right isnt another's right ... well... holy crap
Trauma I wonder if a child all of a sudden being pulled from the wild would experience it as a trauma, totally messing with the stabilzing of the child??? Trauma is pretty mind altering, just as a psychological event itself and on its own is difficult to wade through. Could be a psychological shut down events...
Its possible; but, assuming there is human programming there, why would it be so difficult to "stabilize' the human behavior? Wouldn't the human behavior be innate and return much easier? It apparently is not according to what I have read and at a certain point no chance at all is possible. That may be due to lack of committment on social intevetion though. Doctors, social workers giving up?
As for dysfunctional families, that is a good example. That too is rare, stabilizing I mean. The incidence of recovery is somewhere around 16% (may not be exact). I have done some work in psychology and dysfunctional behavior. Of course that figure is directly related to a person's desire to change and their consistent application of techniques to do so. The dysfunctional behavior doesn't totally leave as well, one manages to control cognitively for a long period of time before it becomes something closer to auto-reactionary behavior. Good point.
I tend to agree Hugz ... this study on feral children, has implications in social behavior, in consciousness, universal or otherwise, in our belief systems, in our morals and more importantly who we think we are.
Is there universal consciousness because we "think' there is?
Is there a cheese sandwhich in your purse because I 'think' there is?
I totally agree with your last paragraph. We're as much humans because of our environmental indicators as dogs are by theirs.
I have watched kanine behavior shows and the same consequences happen to dogs that are removed from their mothers or the pack too soon. They appear to be easier to "stabalize" in normal dog behavior than humans are, by introducing them to a pack of dogs. Humans seem to be more difficult when it comes to righting the ship so to speak, in that regard. Who is more advanced?
Wondering though Dru, if it were 'programmed' why woudl these kids not also have the programming? They act and react like wolves. There is apparently a small window as well to 'satabalize' a child like this as well. The younger they are the better, but if they were in that envorirnment through age 8, the ability to 'satabalize' human behavior is much more difiicult. There is even a point of no return, where the 'wolve behavior is unchangeable to any real degre. This to me would imply that is isnt progaramming
Its puzzling, does lead one to think that universal consciousness is somewhat environmentally dependant and not really so universal?
Thats exactly where I was going with this. These children are significantly more like "wolves" than humans, even after prolonged intervention. Progress is made, but very slow, further supporting that most of what we do as humans is behavioral imprinting rather than inherent moral codes.
Thats one of my questions as well. I was thinking that somehow having human brains that we got this ability on our own, but now I am not so sure. Considering aberations that occur it is possible that much of cognitive human (what we call human) behavior can be evolutionary, but the possibilty for a human to slip back to stone age behavior without behavioral indicators seems highly probable.
Strange. We keep each other on the same path so to speak as it relates to human behavior and growth in sentience and cognition.
synonymous means same, not identical. Sameness need not be identical and truely identical would be very difficult to find (in anything .. no two snowflakes )
Belief and faith, in my humble opinion are tandum for the "same" purpose; which, can and or may be to conclude an unfulfilled question or fill a vacancy of proof in the mind.
Anything you have evidence of, would be reality me thinks. That would change "I believe" to "I know" ...yes?
You "know" the earth is spherical, not a belief. Faith that is spherical or not would support a belief in either, assuming the reality (the knowing) is not available to you, you see.
belief and faith are tandum
reality and knowledge are tandum .. sameness, not identical
Feral children, also known as wild children or wolf children, are children who've grown up with minimal human contact, or even none at all. They may have been raised by animals (often wolves) or somehow survived on their own. In some cases, children are confined and denied normal social interaction with other people. They act and react as a dog or wolf would and are extremely difficult to reach on a "human" communication level.
Several documented cases are available and researchable.
It appears that most things that we are, come from environmental imprinting. Without parents teaching the cognition we would be little more than animals.
This ties in with a thread not long ago dealing with monogamy and the discussion that it was inherent in humans to be monagamous. Personally I think it's behavioral; and these studies seem to bare that out.
My question is: Given that we have the tendancy to think we are cognitive sentient beings by birth, do the facts of "feral children" disprove what we think is inherent cognitive morals? It appears we are more prone to behavioral indicators than supposed inherent morals?
RE: Do you believe we come from monkeys as Darwin told? (evolution)
A brilliant man at his work in translating, a bit iffy in the conjecture department. still a brillaint guy by any sense of the word